Jet* Importing Pilots

[armslides&crossdress]

JJW you are off track here

VH _JJW suggests we expats are hypocrites basically..
Not so .. most of us are working in the countries no one wants to live and even if we did wish to set down roots - this is not possible as the right to reside as a resident only extends to the contract length..
Not so with the imports on the 457 in Aussie, they get to apply for permanent resident / then full citizenship afetr time in a highly desirable country..

Now I would like to go and work in many parts of europe , however all the EU countries will not allow this -- why - to protect those within the union.. Or how about the States ( no green card = no go)

So get a little educated please on where we (aussie)expats who wish to come home are a little confused as to this 457 Visa thinkng, Yes amoungst us we are are international heavy skippers and f/o's with much to offer and aussie to boot, and even happy with the $$ on offer as want to get home..

[Mr. Hat]

But they also pay $100k for a 73 FO

Well said.

...the pilots pay has gone up in single figures over the same period, if at all.

Backwards actually. Set only to get worse.

If you want to see the future look at what a pilot makes in the US.

[Sonny Hammond]

Further to armslide....

Some of the countries expats work in would like nothing more to be rid of their expat pilots (workers in general).
To them we are a necessary evil.

On the contrary, Australia seemingly would prefer to displace its own, replace them with 'cheaper' immigrants, all just to chase a short term profit forecast.

It is quite pathetic really.

[redsnail]

UK cadet schemes are very much sponsorship schemes. (ie, you pay one way or the other)

There are also deals where you can "buy" your right seat for 100 or 150 hours.
Nice.

This is just to clarify what happens in the UK.

Just looking at the money on offer, it's not the best.

[Boeing797]

457 visas are temporary

Everyone is missing the point here. 457 visas are temporary and have a max validity of four years. They can NOT lead to permanent residency or Aussie citizenship. These foreigners are just a stop-gap and will have to leave Oz in four years time.

[breakfastburrito]

Boeing797, that is incorrect. Gillard has stated that she hopes s457 holders stay and take up residency, & ultimately citizenship.

[phantom menace]

History lesson- Early 90's the UK was full of Aussie's taking jobs from UK pilots. Lucky Pprune wasn't going then eh !. The old analogy don't P**s in my back yard, P**s next door.

[breakfastburrito]

Tell us phantom, what passport or residency did these "Aussies" carry? Ah yes British or right-of-abode.

[Keg]

Command must be going well eh.......

So far. Quite enjoyable actually. It's nice to have something to distract me from all this 457 visa crap.

[maggotdriver]

Good News

I feel for the current F/O generation within our struggling company. Really good guys, and now battling to keep their right to seniority being circumvented by these 457 visa's, and direct entry captains, (yes many exceed the OM1 command requirements, as well as those with less than OM1 req's, but exceed company requirements not met by most direct entry captains). The flight deck chatter, (on the whole), used to be so positive and easy going, is now being consistently eroded by talk of direct entry commands, by-pass of seniority, and I wonder what I will be chatting about tomorrow when our own union had pretty much endorsed further direct entry fella's from SA.

Now that's irony! Sort of reminds me of the woman who wonders why her husband cheated on her when she herself used to be the lover?
We tried to tell you guys what the company would do but unfortunately you've now found out for yourselves, however, this post is not to say we told you so, in fact it is positive. Our guys too fell for the same thing, it is difficult to suspect one's boss as a man of complete disregard of morals until you realise that is exactly and expressly what the market requires of him - whilst we allow it!
Lawrie and Ian, you now have a condition you have been waiting for! Both pilot bodies are aggrieved within one organisation and being Australian I'm sure that we would much rather stand together and unite to face an enemy than to continue divided. Both of your jobs (in particular both of Ian's) are now at threat!
Enough pontificating - FIX IT!
You have support from both sides!

[maggotdriver]

Now I have been following this topic for a long time being an Australian Pilot who has had an application with Jetstar for a long time /very well experienced ( lotza jet time and the rest) and meet all minimums reqd and alas no invitation for interview !!
OK thats their choice give it to another they consider more suitable ..No worries > as its their train set / I have no problem with that..

BUT Give that job to a NON AUSTRALIAN bought in on a 457 Visa that requires that NO SUITABLE Australian applicants exist to fill the position ??? Well thats just Illegal as the 457 requires >>>> NO Suitable Applicants .

So Rather than bleed and bitch on this forum there is an Australian Ombudsman that will inviestigate why an Australian Government Agency has isssued these Visa's when the conditions have not been satisfied..
If you like me no longer buy the rhetoric that recruitment is on hold due 787 delays and feel like making an offical complaint as I have .. see below for the LINK..
http://www.comb.gov.au/

Foreigners in my city doing a job I am able to do and may even be more experienced to do than them ??
No we have the legal right to challenge this one... / more complaints the better

Great idea! Already done mine and so should every FO on the 330/320 for J* or mainline. Letters to Members go into the bin. Letters to the ombudsman get followed up on.

[Lodown]

Jetstar has the intention of picking up pilots wherever they can. Frankly, if I was an employee, I'd be taking the same attitude with employers. And to preempt anyone suggesting that some pilots have commitments, kids in school, parents and in-laws nearby, wives in careers, etc., I fully agree. Just like any other job. If this "pilot shortage" gets worse, as it is forecast to do assuming oil prices don't stifle growth, then Jetstar's investment in employee stability will likely turn around and bite them on the arrse.

[Captain Sherm]

Just wondering....and that's all so no venomous replies please....

1. Are there any pilots left in QF who joined either Australian or Ansett in 1989? How many?

2. Other than those in 1. if there are any, how many AIPA members weren't born in Australia?

3. How many in 2., came to Australia with any form of flying licence?

4. How many AIPA members have taken leave of absence to fly with any o's or domestic carrier?

5. How many MOU pilots has the QF Chief Pilot let leave QF to go over to JQ in the last 6 months?


If anyone has the facts, love to hear them.

Thanks

[Chimbu chuckles]

So all the angst aside how many pilots have J* actually employed on 457 visas and is the pilot scene different now to last year when they applied for said visas?

My information is that the situation has changed dramatically post EBA 4 and they now have what they didn't have before...experienced expat ozzies applying to come home in sufficient numbers to obviate the need for 457 visas.

So have they actually hired 1, 5, 10, 75?

Or is this a storm in a tea cup?

['holic]

Fair enough question, Chimbu. Don't know the answer but can answer your question with another question.

How many 457 visas need to be issued before this ceases to be a 'storm in a teacup' and becomes a legitimate concern?

1, 5, 10, 75?

[Chimbu chuckles]

Any pilot hired of whatever background, will be hired on EBA 4 so now that they have the required Ozzie applicants, and believe me they do, as long as those applicants accept offers of employment, and believe me they will given the plummeting US$, there is no advantage in hiring via 457 visa.

Now if they were offering employment to 457 applicants on lesser T&Cs than EBA 4 you'd have an argument...but they are not.

Storm in a teacup.

[Wiley]

Maybe Jet* should re-write their ads and state the actual situation with some honesty: "Australian residency/citizenship for sale. Going cheap: grossly sub-standard wages and conditions (only) for the 3(?) years it will take to to qualify for your Aussie passport - and then you're free to join the native born Australian pilots overseas where you can earn a halfway decent living.

Bonus: along with the obligatory six free steak knives, your family, both immediate and extended, get an Aussie passport too!!"

Three years from now, they can import another lot of cheap labour under similar conditions when this lot collect their passports - and walk. (Note to Patrick's management: maybe you should try this with the wharfies as well?)

If the senior people in Government aren't too thick to see through this full of holes scam Jet* management are trying to foist upon them and the Australian public, they're in on it, as they were the last time they imported foreign pilots in large numbers to destroy the wages and conditions of local pilots. It's the same Party in power as was in power then, and I would imagine that many of the ministers and senior staffers now in Canberra were junior staffers who were actively involved in the implemention the Labor Governmen't "destroy Australian Aviation" (for that's what it did) policy in the year that started the whole sorry mess Australian Aviation has become.

Or maybe they're got the Silver Bodgie is as a specialist consultant?

[obie2]

Hey!...I wouldn't be too concerned about this if I were you!

Laurie at the AFAP will sort this all out...

you watch, she'll be right!

[ACMS]

yeah

That's what Laurie and the gang said to us in '89

She'll be right.


Looks like they have the same legal advisors!!

[xjt]

For the first time in my life I am ashamed to be an aussie. Working overseas has been a nightmare in many cases. There are so many of us trying to come "HOME", it is unbeliveable how Australia has become even worse than the U.S. BUt I guess the word "SCAB" has many meanings here, and will too very soon down Under.

Let the games begin........