Is this truely indicitive of JetStar thinking?
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Is this truely indicitive of JetStar thinking?
E-mailed to me the other day.
Let's hope the newly elected JPC are more open than old Rick!
Thank God I'm now out of all this "GA in jets" schoolboy antics!
Until pilots in this country get out of their tribal ways of thinking and unite under one all encompassing industrial umbrella you will continue to be played by management and brown nosers!
My two cents worth,
AIPA have and for the near future been a 747 - 400 club.
If you are not a 747 skipper then stiff sh*t, you get what you get, totally self serving, IMHO.
There is no loyalty to anyone or support for any group who do not pose a threat to 747 senior crew.
They are a bunch of wank##s, and this is experience gained first hand trying to negotiate with them.
If we as a group align ourselves in anyway to this group, we are all putting our destiny in the hands of a self serving group that has no consideration for Jetstar in any way shape or form.
Look at the history, they have tried to stop us from expanding through court action and injunctions, not consultation.
Wake up and smell the roses, JQ is the future, QF is a spent group and are totally irrelevant in the current IR climate, can I make it any more clear?
We have the upper hand, they need us more than they we need them.
If the JPA can truly make themselves a viable force industrially, (and this may take some funding) we will acheive much more than can be gained from everyones so called "expert" negotiators.
The AFAP screwed up the Eastern and Virgin deals, the AIPA have sold the 737 guys a pup, while the JPC/JPA have realised substantial gains for it's members over the last 5 years.
Having said this, the company, having initiated EBA talks early have, in my opinion raised the expectations of the pilot group en mass.
Their apparent inability to seal the deal, and their reluctance to make good with the increased conditions will be at their peril.
I believe we are about to lose some very good and experienced people if they do not come up with something fast.
I think we are worth more than we are being paid, we are working far harder for less than we origionally agreed to and we no longer have the "lifestyle" promise we had hoped for.
Times have changed, and in a lot of ways, we as a group are being shafted.
But until pilots start voting with their feet, all looks rosey to management.
There is no doubt that there exists an enormous opportunity here for pilots in respect to advancement and career, however, this will be difficult to sustain given the resources availed to the training department.
Personally, I do not believe we need to look outside our current pilot cohort to crew the 787, but still we employ from outside.
It is just another aircraft, and each and everyone of us has as much experience as anyone else in the world on this new type.
We do not need any outside help to crew or introduce this aircraft.
I have probably said too much already, but I am sick and tired of the crap I hear, we voted in the Wide Body Agreement so we could control the seniority list for the intro of the 787, IMHO it is as simple as that, we cannot let it get away from us.
Let's hope the newly elected JPC are more open than old Rick!
Thank God I'm now out of all this "GA in jets" schoolboy antics!
Until pilots in this country get out of their tribal ways of thinking and unite under one all encompassing industrial umbrella you will continue to be played by management and brown nosers!
My two cents worth,
AIPA have and for the near future been a 747 - 400 club.
If you are not a 747 skipper then stiff sh*t, you get what you get, totally self serving, IMHO.
There is no loyalty to anyone or support for any group who do not pose a threat to 747 senior crew.
They are a bunch of wank##s, and this is experience gained first hand trying to negotiate with them.
If we as a group align ourselves in anyway to this group, we are all putting our destiny in the hands of a self serving group that has no consideration for Jetstar in any way shape or form.
Look at the history, they have tried to stop us from expanding through court action and injunctions, not consultation.
Wake up and smell the roses, JQ is the future, QF is a spent group and are totally irrelevant in the current IR climate, can I make it any more clear?
We have the upper hand, they need us more than they we need them.
If the JPA can truly make themselves a viable force industrially, (and this may take some funding) we will acheive much more than can be gained from everyones so called "expert" negotiators.
The AFAP screwed up the Eastern and Virgin deals, the AIPA have sold the 737 guys a pup, while the JPC/JPA have realised substantial gains for it's members over the last 5 years.
Having said this, the company, having initiated EBA talks early have, in my opinion raised the expectations of the pilot group en mass.
Their apparent inability to seal the deal, and their reluctance to make good with the increased conditions will be at their peril.
I believe we are about to lose some very good and experienced people if they do not come up with something fast.
I think we are worth more than we are being paid, we are working far harder for less than we origionally agreed to and we no longer have the "lifestyle" promise we had hoped for.
Times have changed, and in a lot of ways, we as a group are being shafted.
But until pilots start voting with their feet, all looks rosey to management.
There is no doubt that there exists an enormous opportunity here for pilots in respect to advancement and career, however, this will be difficult to sustain given the resources availed to the training department.
Personally, I do not believe we need to look outside our current pilot cohort to crew the 787, but still we employ from outside.
It is just another aircraft, and each and everyone of us has as much experience as anyone else in the world on this new type.
We do not need any outside help to crew or introduce this aircraft.
I have probably said too much already, but I am sick and tired of the crap I hear, we voted in the Wide Body Agreement so we could control the seniority list for the intro of the 787, IMHO it is as simple as that, we cannot let it get away from us.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 28th Apr 2008 at 22:49.
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If the JPA can truly make themselves a viable force industrially,
If - that little big word. The JPA will never be a trusted viable force industrially while they
Just Please Alan and not the JQ pilot body they are supposed to represent.
If - that little big word. The JPA will never be a trusted viable force industrially while they
Just Please Alan and not the JQ pilot body they are supposed to represent.
Funny how AIPA and the AFAP are useless but....
Looks like you lot are on a winner with the JPC! 
I think we are worth more than we are being paid, we are working far harder for less than we origionally agreed to and we no longer have the "lifestyle" promise we had hoped for.
And just another point...
If this is really what you think;
Just remember what GD stated in the Australian yesterday;
This is just the start. Where in your contract, AWA or whatever has a protection provision in a downturn?
Maybe having the QF guys onside might be a good thing!
If this is really what you think;
We have the upper hand, they need us more than they we need them
Demand is softening for Jetstar at the discount end of the market
Maybe having the QF guys onside might be a good thing!
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Whoever wrote this I think is a bit of a hypocrite - on the one hand he sledges AIPA for being particularly single minded and looking after their "own lot" - yet on the other hand that is exactly what he wants to do with the JPC.
Who needs GD and Alan Joyce, when you have guys like this undermining themselves and the industry.
Who needs GD and Alan Joyce, when you have guys like this undermining themselves and the industry.
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Having stated the AFAP are useless it doesn't then show much strength of conviction to align yourself with them.
This is probably one of the saddest letters of an industrial nature I've read. Surely this is enough to make one want to run as fast as possible from it's author and the idea of giving him any sort of industrial position of influence. It's really not a good insight into the way a bloke thinks.
This is probably one of the saddest letters of an industrial nature I've read. Surely this is enough to make one want to run as fast as possible from it's author and the idea of giving him any sort of industrial position of influence. It's really not a good insight into the way a bloke thinks.
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I think you will find the author of this fine literary piece was a goose when he was at Sunshine Express and he obviously is still a goose and he should do aviation in this country a great service by going back to plumbing!
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THis thread is a gee up and in good form the only bloke that is laughing is GD and
A tad short sighted when you signed up to operate the new toy by ensuring that you will be at the lower end of the pay scale world wide for the said beast.
I do agree that you have a group with a lot of experience and dont need outside help to crew it.
Why is the JPC so great - some of them broke ranks and went to the company to take the collectively voted down EBA on AWAs in a very anti democratic move?
No union is perfect but its a step in protecting you and the corporate juggernaught of the QF group.
As far as AIPA goes, they are not perfect but the sooner we "The Group" are all under the same flag the better for all.
blow.n.gasket I hope you find the peace you are looking for
I have probably said too much already, but I am sick and tired of the crap I hear, we voted in the Wide Body Agreement so we could control the seniority list for the intro of the 787, IMHO it is as simple as that, we cannot let it get away from us.
I do agree that you have a group with a lot of experience and dont need outside help to crew it.
Why is the JPC so great - some of them broke ranks and went to the company to take the collectively voted down EBA on AWAs in a very anti democratic move?
No union is perfect but its a step in protecting you and the corporate juggernaught of the QF group.
As far as AIPA goes, they are not perfect but the sooner we "The Group" are all under the same flag the better for all.
blow.n.gasket I hope you find the peace you are looking for
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Until we are all under one Union, not JPCs, PWCs, AIPA, AFAP we are truly divided. Its as complex solution to a simple proble. Ego, big d%$K stuff, she said he said school yard antics will always prevent this single union from happening.
Other professions have one Union. Doctors have the AMA, Dentists have the Royal College of Dental Surgeons etc etc. Yet we still act like a bunch of D%^Khead five year old school kids arguing about Billy who took my play lunch and hit my arm 20 years ago. We are by no means a progressive group at all.
All you have to look at is what the salaries were 20 years ago. They are still the same and its because we argue and fight each other in court and waste Union fees on silly IR battles of coverage, yet the solution is staring us in the face the whole time.
ONE UNION.
But sadly it will never happen because we are truly not professionals and we don't act like professionals when it comes to the industrial arena.
Other professions have one Union. Doctors have the AMA, Dentists have the Royal College of Dental Surgeons etc etc. Yet we still act like a bunch of D%^Khead five year old school kids arguing about Billy who took my play lunch and hit my arm 20 years ago. We are by no means a progressive group at all.
All you have to look at is what the salaries were 20 years ago. They are still the same and its because we argue and fight each other in court and waste Union fees on silly IR battles of coverage, yet the solution is staring us in the face the whole time.
ONE UNION.
But sadly it will never happen because we are truly not professionals and we don't act like professionals when it comes to the industrial arena.
