Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!

Old 17th Apr 2008, 07:45
  #321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Would it be noticeable? Would it ruin the business? What if the same applied to REX pilots in competition? It would be fascinating maths.
Cue the KRUSTY34...
breakfastburrito is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 08:12
  #322 (permalink)  
b55
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Far Side
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is a need for a clarification here on NK's reply letter.
DeafStar PARAPHRASED the entire letter with his own interpretation, "The gist....."

Having a copy in front of me, at NO time does NK's letter say, "We are not going to improve your T&C's because we already have with our gererous retention scheme." This sentence does not exist in the letter.

There is only one paragraph in the one page letter that has anything to say.
"Clearly the environment for regional pilots remains dynamic.[DOH!] Any one initiative will not fully address the challenges that other regional airlines and we currently face.[BEG TO DIFFER!] We will continue to implement additional measures and initiatives to improve our ability to both retain and attract pilots. Any such measures will of course need to be considered within the context of a sustainable ongoing business model." [DOH!]

The letter to me only gives continued proof that NK and co. will only still REACT and not manage this situation, 18 months behind what is needed.

I assume they are tied up on this by Qantas, which doesn't have the same problem. BUT, ANY wages "blow out" by any one group within Qantas, by Qantas' definition, would cause a flood of trouble from all of the groups in Qantas, as they see it. 3% x 3% x 3% is Qantas' only answer. Which goes back to QLink and doesn't solve its pilot problem. Qantas doesn't care. Until that happens..... 0.
b55 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 08:13
  #323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: C9-H6-N2-O2
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool Why would anyone want to work for QL?Part 1

Heres the letters the pilot councils wrote to the company. First bit comes from LC of AFAP:

To: ALL EASTERN & SUNSTATE PILOTS

Date: 7 APRIL 2008

Subject: Letter to management

We have attached a copy of a letter sent to the management of QantasLink
covering Eastern Australia and Sunstate operations.

The letter came about following discussions within the Pilot Committees of both
Companies and the Federation delivered on their behalf the issues we feel need to
be addressed to retain and attract pilots.

We are not making a claim as such as you will be aware that in Eastern we are in
an existing EBA and Sunstate is soon to commence. The future we believe will
need to be addressed to stop the growing exodus of experienced pilots to other
airlines.

It is entirely up to the Company if they see value in what has been suggested but
equally we are being proactive to ensure that they are aware of the issues being
discussed internally. Many of you have been weighing up your options for the
future and a number on the basis of whether to stay or go.

We asked the Company to respond by last Friday and have now been advised that
written communication will be sent during this week.

The response will be forwarded to you all once received.

Any further questions should be directed to me on xxxxxxxx

Regards
The letter:

20th March 2008

Mr Narendra Kumar
Qantas Executive General Manager Regional Airlines
Level 10 Airport Central Building,
Cnr O’Riordan and Robey Streets
Mascot, NSW, 2020.

Dear Narendra,

Re: PILOT RETENTION AND ATTRACTION

We are writing this letter on behalf of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP),
Eastern Australia Airlines Pilot Committee (EAAPC) and the Sunstate Airlines Pilot
Committee (SAPC) to express a view toward the future for QantasLink operations.

It is not a claim in the industrial sense and has been constructed through input by the
respective pilot bodies. We trust it will be given serious consideration as part of the
process to ensure the long-term operation of QantasLink both as a business and our
careers.

There is little doubt from the employees of QantasLink and the communities that they
serve that the Qantas Group is committed to maintaining the current destinations with
a view to upgrade their aircraft offering increased capacity and in some
circumstances, frequency. The commitment to the expansion plans for the future
cannot be questioned with the much publicised $850 million in aircraft acquisitions.

What is in doubt is the commitment to the individuals that will be required to crew
not just the future expansion plans but simply maintaining the current schedule. The
retention package offered by the Company, on average per year, $5,000 for a Captain
and $3,300 for a First Officer, is in our view, woefully inadequate when compared to
the current market conditions.

The $40,000 Captain Retention scheme, although appreciated, does not ensure a
commitment to the individual as it can and will be removed at the Company’s
discretion. The secondary effect of this scheme has been to alienate senior First
Officers. Currently there are only six Eastern and approximately thirty Sunstate First
Officers that are eligible for a command upgrade and are excluded from the package.
These future Captains, integral to QantasLink’s future expansion and viability, are
actively seeking alternate employment. It will be experienced First Officers, not
inexperienced First Officer trainees that will dictate the future of QantasLink.

For a pilot weighing up his or her options the opportunity to lock in a higher paying
job to provide for their family is too difficult to resist when compared to their current
salaries and lifestyle offered by QantasLink.

Below are seven points that the AFAP and both pilot group committees believe will
effectively stem the current unsustainable attrition rate, but also attract pilots looking
for the challenges and benefits of becoming a regional airline pilot.

Retention Measures

Base Salaries
Dash 8 100/200/300 Captain: $100,000
First Officer: $75,000
Dash 8 400 Captain: $120,000
First Officer: $82,000
Figures provided are for a Year 1 pilot
10 year scale to increase by 2% per annum
Standard Qantas Group Corporate Policy increase of 3% apply per annum

Days Off
Minimum of 10 days off per 28 day roster
Days off to be paired unless the individual agrees otherwise

Additional Work Recognition/Grey Days
59 flight hour trigger for additional incentive per 28 day roster.
Hour trigger is used in conjunction with a minimum of 2 Grey Days per 28
day roster.
Remuneration per hour to be negotiated but it would be expected to be less
then double pay as per the current day off work practice based upon the rest of
the package improving.

Retention Bonus
To be decided by the Company. Dictated by market conditions and World’s
Best Practice.

Superannuation
10% of base salary (and additions eg. Training Captain increase) and
Retention remuneration.

Progression into a Jet Operation
Qantas Mainline (as per the current cadet arrangement)
Jetstar
Jet Star Asia
Jet Connect
Australian Air Express
Expansion of QantasLink into narrow body jet operations
National Jet (QantasLink)

Explanation of the Retention Measures
Base Salaries
Below are some current base salaries in the industry.
Virgin Blue
B737 Captain: $174,000
First Officer: $113,000
Embraer Captain: $139,000
First Officer: $88,000

Surveillance Australia
Dash 8 Captain: $100,000 (plus retention/performance bonus $50,000
per annum increasing to $100,000 per annum in three years)
First Officer: $60,000 (plus retention/performance bonus
$30,000 per annum increasing to $50,000 per annum in three
years)

Royal Flying Doctors QLD Branch
Super King Air Captain: $95,000 (October 2008)
(10 seater turboprop) Captain: $109,000 15% increase (October 2009)
Captain: $125,000 10% increase (October 2010)

Sharp Airlines
Metro III Captain: $75,000-95,000
(19 seater turboprop)
Skytrans
Dash 8 Captain: $100,000
First Officer: $58,000
Titan Captain: $60,000
(10 seater piston)
Base Salary – Retention

By viewing the above salaries and comparing them to the current remuneration
offered by QantasLink it is clear to see that the Company has fallen well below the
market conditions in the industry. There is no incentive to either stay or apply as an
experienced pilot with the current salaries.

Traditionally QantasLink Captains did not apply to Virgin Blue because of three
obstacles.
1. Pay cut. B737 First Officers would earn less then their package.
2. Lifestyle. Three-four nights away from their home base and long duty hours
with little difference in days off.
3. Up front payment for endorsement costs
Virgin Blue have addressed all three issues, now offering an attractive salary, upgrade
possibilities, additional days off beyond what QantasLink offers and a salary sacrifice
scheme over two years to pay for the endorsement. The facts are that Virgin Blue is
aggressively recruiting QantasLink Captains with the view to upgrading them on the
Embraer within 6-12 months. With the obstacles removed there is no justification for
QantasLink pilots to not apply.

Base Salary – Attraction of experienced pilots
With so few First Officers having the experience required to take command of a
QantasLink aircraft and when considering a normal attrition rate, retirements and an
influx of First Officers with no previous experience the greatest challenge facing the
Company is pilot experience. Regional Airlines such a REX and ****** offer
experience levels that can ensure the Company’s future. Currently there is no
incentive for a Captain at REX, for instance, to apply to QantasLink because s/he
would take a pay cut of approximately $24,000, from $75,000 to $51,000 and no
guarantee of a base of their choice. With the proposed salaries, a guarantee of their
choice of base, and an understanding of a fast track command QantasLink can ensure
not only that a source of experience but provide the applicable experience in the
cockpit with the introduction of First Officers with no previous experience.

10 Days Off
There are two reasons to support this proposal.

Over the last few years there has been a reduction in lifestyle due to:
8/9 days off reduced to 8 (Eastern)
Overnight shifts provided approximately 8 half days off.
e.g. previously: Day 1 of an overnight signed on at approx 14:30 and Day 2
signed off at 11:30.
Currently: Day 1 signs on at 10:30 and Day 2 sign off at 14:30 (or later)
Reserve callout varied but approximately 50% callout probability
Currently/recently: 100% callout or no Reserves rostered.
Previously a pilot could expect to have approximately 10-13 days off which justified
the smaller salary offered as lifestyle provided incentive.

The major recruiter of QantasLink pilots now and for the foreseeable future is Virgin
Blue. They guarantee a minimum of 11 days off with an additional 2 Grey days.
A recent Eastern pilot now working for VB has advertised that he had 15 days off in a
28 day roster. VB was originally not an attractive option for a QantasLink Captain, in
terms of lifestyle, because of 3-4 night trips away. They have offset that with
additional days off, effectively removing the lifestyle barrier.

Additional Work Recognition/Grey Days
Grey days are used by some airlines to provide a pilot the option of additional days
off or an incentive to work more. Grey Days are used in conjunction with an hourly
cap per roster. Qantas Short Haul Pilots use a 59 hour cap per roster (approx 1
month). Any additional flight hours flown, whether they are rostered or incurred on a
Reserve or Grey Day would receive additional remuneration per additional hour flown
in excess of 59 hours.

Apart from offering a pilot an attractive lifestyle/work option it also rewards a pilot
for working harder (which is expected in the current climate) if longer duties or
maximum Reserve callout is utilised. Currently a pilot who flies 95 flights hours a
month would not receive any additional remuneration than a pilot who only flies 50
hours. This is not in line with market conditions at many other companies.

Retention Bonus
It is obvious that the Command Retention Scheme currently offered is ineffective.
Surveillance Australia’s offer only serves to attract pilots or at the very least motivate
a QantasLink pilot to look elsewhere for a package that matches the market
conditions. The Company needs to seriously reconsider its position in this area. The
AFAP and both Pilot Committees want to work with the Company on arriving at a
reasonable and attractive figure but ultimately it will be the Company’s management
reaction and/or proactive decision making that will determine our future.

Superannuation
There are several areas in the Qantas Group that now offer their employees 10% super
(including Sunstate). Equalising the QantasLink pilots to 10% and basing it on salary,
additions and retention remuneration would place QantasLink pilots in line with
Surveillance Australia, for example, to ensure World’s Best Practice for the country’s
premiere regional airline.

Progression into a Jet Operation
Progression into the Qantas Group has been a point of contention for QantasLink
pilots for many years. Offering the possibility of progressing into a jet operation
would be very attractive to a percentage of our pilots. Some form of arrangement or
guarantee after a term of employment with the prop fleet is essential to curbing the
attrition rate at its unsustainable level. The vast majority of the pilots that would be
interested in this arrangement have at some point completed successfully the
psychometric testing and performed numerous simulator cyclic tests. The question a
QantasLink pilot often asks is “If I am good enough to fly the Qantas brand into
regional ports in challenging conditions then why I am not good enough to fly the
Qantas brand elsewhere in the Group?” The question continues to go unanswered.

We believe that expansion of our current operations into narrow body jet would give
incentive to stay for the future. This occurred previously in Southern with BAe-146
operations and could be replicated today.

QantasLink has already reached the crossroads; its future growth depends on retaining
experienced crews, much the same as Mainline or JetStar. The recent schedule down
turn and further announcements are disappointing and worrying for the employees and
management alike. With additional aircraft arriving in June and Virgin Blue looking
to exercise their options on the Embraer there is no more time for procrastination or
inaction. We strongly urge the Company to consider these proposals and we fully
understand that it will solely be the Company who decide whether this Company
grows or declines. The decisions moving forward will affect not just profitability but
also the vital link to the regional communities that require us to provide an integral air
service.

We appreciate your consideration of the above points and trust that it will be given
opportunity for reflection. As stated at the outset we feel that if we do nothing that our
employment and connection to QantasLink will be lost.

The pilot groups are constantly asking us for reasons to stay rather than consider other
employment opportunities we would request an acknowledgement to this letter and
any response by 4th April 2008.

Yours faithfully,

Lawrie Cox
Manager – Industrial Relations

Copies:
Mr Leigh Clifford AO – Qantas Airways Chairman
Mr Geoff Dixon – Qantas Airways CEO
Mr Paul Lidbury - Manager QantasLink Operations
Captain Mark Davey - Manager Flight Operations QantasLink
Of course the company didn't worry about replying in the time asked because there ain't a pilot shortage!
Part 2 to follow.



See youse!!!!!!!!
Toluene Diisocyanate is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 14:24
  #324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: InDahAir
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's an extremely well written letter. There's not only a great deal of concern about the pilot group, but the company and the people of rural Australia. I think it should be placed in the Sydney Morning Herald by May 1st, 2008 if they don't get a response...with a side-note that QFLink didn't respond.
Kangaroo Court is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 21:05
  #325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: C9-H6-N2-O2
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down Why would anyone want to work for QL Pt2

It only took them 3 wks to reply!

To: Eastern Australia and Sunstate pilots

From: Lawrie Cox – Manager Industrial Relations

Date: 15 APRIL 2008

Subject: Company response


A response to the pilot retention and attraction letter forwarded to Qantas and Qantaslink
management by the two pilot committees and the Federation was finally received late Friday
11th April.

In the AFAP’s letter it requested a response by no later then 4th April but this was extended to
the 11th April at the request of the Company. After three weeks to deliberate on our
recommendations and concerns Narendra Kumar has provided the attached one page response.

The response is carefully worded so as not to dismiss or reject any one of the measures, nor does
it endorse any of the measures. There is no reference what so ever on any points that we
expressed.

The choice to refer only to the Command Experience Retention Scheme and measuring it in a
positive light after the AFAP and Pilot Committees had emphasised it is inadequate and
ineffective is in our view staggering.

The greatest challenge facing QantasLink in the immediate future is the stability and growth of
its pilot group.

It is disappointing and frustrating that the management of QantasLink choose not to engage in
any dialogue with the representative bodies of the pilot groups to try and work together to apply
affective measures to stem the current exodus from the Company.

The implication that the recommendations are not in line with sustainable ongoing business
model is insulting to a pilot at Qantaslink.

QantasLink is the largest and most profitable regional airline in Australia.

Yet, a three aircraft airline such as Sharp Airlines has the ability to offer $95,000 for a Metro
Captain to not simply maintain its current business and schedule but to expand.

The Royal Flying Doctors Service also is capable of offering attractive remuneration above and
beyond a QantasLink Captain’s salary despite the RFDS relying on sponsorship and donations
for their cash flow.

Surveillance Australia has also had to rethink what they offer as a package to pilots because of
the implications of not fulfilling their contractual arrangements with the Australian government.

Much the same as QantasLink with their recent successful bid of the Queensland Government’s
contract for air services to far North Queensland. It is embarrassing to know that despite flying
for the country’s premium airline with 50 and 72 seater aircraft that pilots flying substantially
smaller aircraft have greater earning potential or perhaps it is the ongoing business model that
their management have seen fit to apply that will see their survival.

In today’s aviation climate, you the pilot are an invaluable asset to airlines worldwide. It is
disappointing and frustrating that QantasLink continue to remain stagnant in such a volatile
period, where it is imperative to have stability in their pilot work force to even have the
opportunity to have a sustainable business, now and in the future.

In handling this crisis with the current policy to reduce the schedule and continued cancellations,
costing the Company what is sure to be, at the very least, hundreds of thousands of dollars, the
decision to find employment elsewhere seems to have been made all the more easy after reading
the response from the Group General Manger Regional Airlines.

The future for a QantasLink pilot currently appears to be one of minimum days off, long days
with minimum rest periods and high yearly flight hours with no further recognition or incentive
on a salary base far removed from the market conditions.

The Company have extended an invitation to discuss pilot and retention matters for the first time
with both the AFAP and pilot representatives. We will keep you informed of developments, if
any, as they arise.

Any further questions should be directed to either xxxxxxxxxxx

Regards


Lawrie Cox
The long-awaited (pissweak) response:

11 April 2008

Dear Lawrie,

I write in response to your letter dated 20 March 2008.

Thank you for your letter and as always I welcome your constructive input on business issues.

Like all Australian regional airlines, Qantaslink's recent ability to meet its pilot resource requirements has been impacted by an unprecedented level of pilot demand across the industry.

As you have acknowledged in your letter, Qantaslink has already implemented a number of initiatives aimed at addressing some of the specific issues that have resulted in some of our pilots moving to other airlines., such as the Command Experience Scheme. You will be pleased to note that on 31 March 2008, we extended access to the Command Experience Scheme payment (of up to $45,000) to all Qantaslink First Officers who are promoted to Captain status on or before 30 June 2009.

Clearly the environment for regional pilots remains dynamic. Any one initiative alone will not fully address the challenges that other regional airlines and we currently face. We will continue to implement additional measures and initiatives to improve our ability to both retain and attract pilots. Any such measures will of course need to be considered within the context of a sustainable ongoing business model.

I would welcome the opportunity to meet with you to further discuss the issue of mutual interest.

Let me assure you, I remain committed to growing our regional airline operation and dealing with this and any other business challenges that face us at any point in time.

Yours sincerely,

Narendra Kumar
Group General Manager Regional Airlines
[quote]Any one initiative alone will not fully address the challenges that other regional airlines and we currently face.[/QUOTE] So why stick with the single bonus initiative? What about life style?
Kumar's missed the boat.Theyre about to lose a big chunk of their experience. The first of many senior captains resigned last week. (seeya HJ) Most have got start dates and are waiting to go.
Who wants to ride on the rudderless ship?

See youse!
T.D.I.
Toluene Diisocyanate is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 21:49
  #326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wherever the hotel drink ticket is valid
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Guys, you're certainly not going to hear me telling you that they haven't screwed the pooch royally here, but a slightly less cynical take on the response letter may be in order.

Any one initiative alone will not fully address the challenges that other regional airlines and we currently face.
TDC is correct to point out this phrase - they certainly shouldn't stick with what they've got. I personally believe that there's a lot more to it than just money (which is the major thrust of the AFAP and the pilot group at large). It's about making it a great company to work for - that extends beyond the pay packet and "lifestyle rostering".

We will continue to implement additional measures and initiatives to improve our ability to both retain and attract pilots.
You never know guys, maybe they are trying to make a positive move here. Any significant changes in terms and conditions will take a little while to organise, rather than with a snap of the fingers. For a start, you actually need to decide on the numbers - not an easy task.

For example (and I'm not suggesting this is what's going on at the moment), if you were NK and you had already decided that you had to pay your pilots more in order to compete against other companies for the pilot resource, what then? You now have to decide exactly how much that's going to be. You would not be discharging your duty adequately unless you determine the exact, minimum amount required to stem the flow of pilots out of the company. Not one penny more or less. If any of you guys can show me a formula how to achieve that, you're smarter than me and I've done some serious mathematics in my time! (And before someone writes back with a "That's easy, you just pay a dollar more than VB is offering", that would be to ignore a significant element of this problem).

Anyhow, the bottom line is that it's very easy to read the worst out of the response, but there are a couple of things in there that suggest moves are afoot. I too would have liked a response full of action, leadership - a positive step in this problem we all face. At the same time, I have to acknowledge that the answers here are just not that simple. Maybe from time to time as we continue to rant about our current lot, we could just acknowledge there's more too it?

I'm either ducking for cover or standing by my reel. Or both.

Icarus
Icarus53 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2008, 01:04
  #327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Suitcase
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is no surprise GGMRA doesn't know what to do. The looming costs of more service cancellations, Q400s sitting idle, retraining and more retraining is a big unknown. He's hoping it won't be too bad, he's hoping the newbies will save the day. And a plan? A leader masterfully keeping his cards to his chest it seems.

GGMRA might shortly come out with "there are known knowns, there are unknown knowns, there are known unknowns and we just don't know which is which at the moment. It's all very "dynamic".

You would not be discharging your duty adequately unless you determine the exact, minimum amount required to stem the flow of pilots out of the company. Not one penny more or less.
If the QFlink yeilds were very tight, I could understand this "duty" with the pennies. But Icarus, economic rationalism looks fine on paper until you throw in a few un-accountable factors. Such as:
  • Lifestyle - stuffed
  • Moral - stuffed
  • Benefits - stuffed
  • Loyalty - stuffed
  • Respect - stuffed
Why not just match the SAPL salary. They just snapped their fingers, came up with a nice, round attractive figure. Now they have an inordinate list of experienced, willing pilots.
They have lifestyle rostering.

Not rocket science.
WynSock is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2008, 12:15
  #328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Noosa Australia
Age: 74
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
All interested

has eastern ever had life style rostering and if so when and what? In my forty or so years in the industry I have never known a company where there is so much bitterness,animosity and down right nasty behaviour from management,pilots included. Yet this is the culture that has been rammed down our throats since the eastern gurus walked through the door. IT is so ingrained and unlikely to change for the better until the people that hold positions they should never be allowed to hold are moved on.I live in hope amongst other things and watch the exodus continue.
grumpy greyhound is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2008, 22:25
  #329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,302
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Icarus.

Your points about lifestyle are very well made. But as wynsock pointed out, there ain't no lifestyle!

The industry is a victim of it's own success. Instead of getting their most valuable resorce on board, the oversears of this success have simply tightened the screws. Stupid stategey! Works fine initially, but is doomed to ultimate failure as once happy and loyal staff seek out greener pastures. The problem for management of course is that these pastures will continue to grow for some years yet. QED!

So how do we fix it? You can try and play around with rosters, bidding systems, inadequate incentives and the like, but the plain fact is that there are simply not enough pilots now to satisfy the demand. And the gap is getting larger.

The only thing that will reverse the abandonment of the profession is money, and lots of it. It won't happen overnight, but you will eventually see a re-establishment of the career of pilot in the minds of young Australians. Once that's achieved, only then will you have the numbers to offer lifestyle and rostering incentives. Unfortunately I doubt that we will ever see this because in the minds of most managers it would then become unecessary! So around we go again. The industry is now made up of Max hours, Max duty, and Min rest overnights. Doesn't matter who you work for.

So what's left? You guessed it.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 00:08
  #330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm out (at least for now)

Yup,

That's it for me. Removed my app yesterday. These guys really do have their heads up their ar**.
I've seen this situation a few times before, it does not end well.

BP
boardpig is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 00:46
  #331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wherever the hotel drink ticket is valid
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Your points about lifestyle are very well made.
Not sure I made any points about lifestyle?

  • Lifestyle - stuffed
  • Moral - stuffed
  • Benefits - stuffed
  • Loyalty - stuffed
  • Respect - stuffed
Wynsock is quite right here, and I think these more point to the root of the problem, rather than dollar amounts. In fact, morale stands out here as a driving factor, with the others simply causal factors. Indeed, respect (company respect for the employees), is probably the biggest thing that could be changed. Unfortunately, once morale drops, it's a lot harder to get it back than it would have been to maintain it in the first place.

Example: What if 12 months ago the company had said "we can see pilots are starting to leave, but we value them as a resource. Consequently, we are going to offer a 10% pay increase across the board at the next EBA negotiation, regardless of other issues under consideration". If the company had announced that, many people would have gone home with a feeling that the company recognised their value.

Fast forward - now you have many pilots and the AFAP talking about numbers between 20% and 60% as an adequate pay increase. Meanwhile, even if the company were to acquiesce, we'd all still be walking around talking about the a**holes upstairs and how the company is cr@p to work for these days. People would still go to other jobs as quickly as the market allows.

We are either past or very close to the point when it doesn't matter what management do.
Icarus53 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 01:20
  #332 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sydney, NSW Australia
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It has been my experience that Managers Manage, and Leaders Lead! What is sadly lacking in this whole sorry scenario is that there seem to be quite a few managers at QantasLink willing to 'duck shove' in order to save a dollar, but there has been precious little leadership shown so far towards solving the root cause of QantasLink's crewing problems! Unfortunately too many modern managers have a background in accounting and as I said in another forum, Accountants know the Price of everything and the Value of Nothing!!
THE ORACLE is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 01:52
  #333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Suitcase
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts


Icarus:
talking about numbers between 20% and 60% as an adequate pay increase
and
People would still go to other jobs as quickly as the market allows.
With the greatest respect, which one is your argument, market forces or market forces?
I am sick of hearing the same old...

"NO MATTER WHAT YOU PAY A PILOT, THEY WILL ALWAYS LEAVE"

Total and utter, illogical, ideological bullsh!t.

And hello dear (ex) manager! It's truly about to bite you on the ar5e!
  • If you pay me $300,000 pa I WON'T leave. I will sign a bond to that effect. 10 years, 15 years whatever you want!
  • If you pay me $52,000 pa and burn me out, I WILL leave.
  • If you pay me $180,000 pa and burn me out, I WILL leave.
So somewhere in there, guess what! There IS a salary/lifestyle/fatigue level which will retain and attract me. How much? What conditions?

Let Market Forces decide.

WynSock is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 06:21
  #334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 119
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
WynSock,

wouldnt that be great! 300k per anum! gee i recon we will have people leaving the majors (flying jets) and going back to qlink to fly the turbo props!

LemeL
lemel is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 06:58
  #335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: somewhere in the "Islamic Republic" of Bankstown
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I guess everyone has his or her price! As for me though, I wouldn't hesitate leaving a $300k job if the lifestyle didn't suit me - I don't see any sense in being the richest corpse in the cemetary!!
TROJAN764 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2008, 13:38
  #336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Springfield, USA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good point, although the lifestyle would come as the roster fills up with adequate crew numbers again. “Pay them and they will come!”

Until then, pay them overtime on top of the 300k while being flogged till the operation is sustainable and SAFE.

I have been having a good laugh at the whole pilot shortage situation that was 100% preventable. Well done Qlink, Rex and the like. Your shareholders must be so proud – but they won’t be when they eventually find out the truth of the situation.
Chief Wiggam is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2008, 10:48
  #337 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: house
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Getting Worse

I'm wondering if Q'link and Rex for that matter realise that how bad their crewing situation will become.

Virgin has only just started recruiting. I'm not going to try to speculate every airlines growth but I'm certain we have only just started to see what will happen in the future. As overseas airlines continue to recruit from airlines in Australia and Australias airlines become hungrier for crew, they will continue to suck those with experience from the regionals.

He who makes his bed shall lay in it!

Best of luck for all.

Thats my angle
MyAngle is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2008, 12:17
  #338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: shoe box
Posts: 380
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
17-03-2008

Job ID: P001

QantasLink Pilot
First Officer
Australia

PERMANENT

Start Date: ASAP
Required for:
Trades/Qualifications: CPL

Description:

Korr is currently recruiting first officer pilots for a major domestic airline. This airline currently operates a fleet of 38 Dash 8 aircraft across eastern Australia. It is a respected and iconic airline, with a safety record that few others can boast.

People choose to work for this airline because of its status in the market place, its proven track record, and exposure to jet opportunities.

Minimum Requirements
• CPL with ATPL Theory
• 700 hours total time
• 250 M/E Command or Co-pilot
• HSC or equivalent
• Australian Resident and passport or ability to meet immigration rules to work in Australia
• Class 1 Medical
• ASIC

They just conveniently forgot to mention you have to go somewhere else for the jet opportunities.
Sue Ridgepipe is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2008, 14:33
  #339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,302
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Gidday Angle.

I and many others here have been flogging that very point for about a year now, and you are absolutely right.

REX took a 60% hit last year, and it looks as though QFLink are going through the same thing at the moment. Certain persons on this forum (I have my suspicions, either Rex management or close to it) have made overtures of a "Stabilisation" of pilot numbers. To have the gall to post such a fantasy, either stems from the result of a completely deluded mind or a personality unable to accept the consequences of their actions, or in this case inaction!

The reality is that before the year is out, REX and QFLink will lose approx 60% more of their most experienced pilots. Pilots that now cannot be replaced.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2008, 14:38
  #340 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,302
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Quote:

"People choose to work for this airline because of its status in the market place, its proven track record, and exposure to jet opportunities."

So now they've stooped even lower by telling lies! Shows just how desperate they are becoming.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.