Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!
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And once the last Check and Trainer has gone, the cost to get just one back will make a pollie's super look pale in comparison. Private contracting for highly experienced pilots is going to be a monetary bonanza soon.
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Krusty,
So shall we have a little guess at how much that would need to be?
2008 - 2010 inclusive. (To use another dash operators figures.)
FO's
$133,000 per annum for Dash 8 FOs
and
$200,000 per annum for Dash 8 Captains.
for the next three years.
Of course the horse has bolted a bit on the attrition,
so perhaps you might need to improve the offer a little in excess of that above.
And add to that the jet-like speed of the Q400, Qlink managers might need to increase the current deal to jet-like pay. Immediately.
Will they do that? I doubt it, they have devised a cunning alternative plan which will save the day. It involves very low time pilots and foreigners. (Nothing against them, it just doubt it is realistic)
So for all those remaining on deck, perhaps it time to at least choose your lifeboat, as Qlink seems to be taking on a little water.
The reality is that without substantial increases in wages and conditions, it will make little or no difference.
2008 - 2010 inclusive. (To use another dash operators figures.)
FO's
- $60k + $30k retainer p/a
- $60k + $30k retainer p/a
- $60k + $60k retainer p/a
- + CPI + 2% + overtime = roughly $400K total (No Allowances)
- $100k + $50k retainer p/a
- $100k + $50k retainer p/a
- $100k + $100k retainer p/a
- + CPI + 2% + overtime = roughly $600K total (No Allowances)
$133,000 per annum for Dash 8 FOs
and
$200,000 per annum for Dash 8 Captains.
for the next three years.
Of course the horse has bolted a bit on the attrition,
so perhaps you might need to improve the offer a little in excess of that above.And add to that the jet-like speed of the Q400, Qlink managers might need to increase the current deal to jet-like pay. Immediately.
Will they do that? I doubt it, they have devised a cunning alternative plan which will save the day. It involves very low time pilots and foreigners. (Nothing against them, it just doubt it is realistic)
So for all those remaining on deck, perhaps it time to at least choose your lifeboat, as Qlink seems to be taking on a little water.
Yeah I know Wynsock.
Serious coin isn't it!
The realistic figure would now be something akin to at least what the domestic LCC's are paying. 12 months ago a figure similar to a 40% wage rise in the form of a 12 monthly, no strings attached retention plan would most probably have done it.
As time goes on the "run" is gathering momentum. The domestic airlines continue to attract the best from the regionals despite their own substandard conditions. This is possible because the Regional airlines are still offering way below the market rate. In fact as we know they have made no attempt to retain. Well REX hasn't, the QFlink offer to captains is still whoefully inadequate.
So how much is enough? Frankly now, your guess is as good as mine. I know what it would take to tear up my resume', but as time goes on the rate is surely to go up!
Serious coin isn't it!
The realistic figure would now be something akin to at least what the domestic LCC's are paying. 12 months ago a figure similar to a 40% wage rise in the form of a 12 monthly, no strings attached retention plan would most probably have done it.
As time goes on the "run" is gathering momentum. The domestic airlines continue to attract the best from the regionals despite their own substandard conditions. This is possible because the Regional airlines are still offering way below the market rate. In fact as we know they have made no attempt to retain. Well REX hasn't, the QFlink offer to captains is still whoefully inadequate.
So how much is enough? Frankly now, your guess is as good as mine. I know what it would take to tear up my resume', but as time goes on the rate is surely to go up!
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After reading #253, my offer of $100,000 PA indexed to CPI and a basing in Tamworth seems even more reasonable!
Can't see that lot falling over themselves to ring me though.
So is it going to be a case of "spot the Auusie accent over the PA" soon? Labour governments seems to have a penchant for that sort of thing!
Can't see that lot falling over themselves to ring me though.So is it going to be a case of "spot the Auusie accent over the PA" soon? Labour governments seems to have a penchant for that sort of thing!
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Look for the entire Q-Link operation to be sold to the highest bidder soon! It is obvious that the parent company is not taking the welfare of their employees seriously.
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Ahhhhhh.....but the pilots payrises do come out of the managers pockets, triathalon, thats the problem. A large proportion of Kumars annual income is derived out of profits. But he must be getting worried now. He is responsible for Qlink, Jetconnect and the NJS contractors, and all those departments are openly advertising in The Australian for pilots to try and keep some sort of schedule. Problem is he really does think he can just go and train anyone up to fly the network, just like getting labourers for the old family farm over in Fiji.
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From Dixon down, QF management have discounted pilot experience for a number of years. They believed all they needed was a couple of warm bodies with licences to occupy the front 2 seats = aircraft crewed.
Their general contempt for the experience levels of their pilots is now starting to bite them.
All they had to put in place to keep most of their regional pilots, was some form of career progression. However that suggestion was coming from the pilots themselves, so it had to be bad.
So Dixon, Gregg, Kumar et al...time to suck it up... I watch with interest!
Their general contempt for the experience levels of their pilots is now starting to bite them.
All they had to put in place to keep most of their regional pilots, was some form of career progression. However that suggestion was coming from the pilots themselves, so it had to be bad.
So Dixon, Gregg, Kumar et al...time to suck it up... I watch with interest!
Congratulations to all that have just been given the nod with DJ.
It's all good
.
ps. had a good laugh at the otp of 40%, keep up the bad work.
It's all good
.ps. had a good laugh at the otp of 40%, keep up the bad work.
Last edited by hoss; 11th Mar 2008 at 12:08.
Crisis Over!! The kids are on the way.
QANTASLINK LAUNCHES NEW PILOT TRAINEE PROGRAM
MELBOURNE, 12 March 2008:
MELBOURNE, 12 March 2008:
QantasLink this week welcomed the first intake of 14 pilots for its new Pilot Trainee Program. Qantas Group General Manager Regional Airlines, Mr Narendra Kumar, said the airline had received over 500 applications for the QantasLink Pilot Trainee Program since January and would aim to train more than 100 pilots over the next 12 months. Pilot training is being undertaken at General Flying Services at Moorabbin Airport in Melbourne.
“The new Pilot Trainee Program will establish QantasLink as a major trainer of regional pilots in Australia,” Mr Kumar said. “It is just one of the progressive measures we are taking to address the higher than normal pilot attrition rate affecting regional airlines.
“QantasLink is making a significant investment in the Pilot Trainee Program and is underwriting the full cost of training for successful applicants.” Mr Kumar said the QantasLink Pilot Trainee Program was targeting pilots who already had a basic commercial pilot’s license and who wished to undergo further training to reach the QantasLink standard.
“During the initial phase of the program, the trainees will complete an intensive two month course. On completing this course, they will be eligible to join QantasLink and undertake ground school and simulator training to qualify as QantasLink First Officers.”
The first graduates are expected to commence flying with QantasLink in June 2008. As the program gains momentum the number of pilots trained per month will increase.
All applicants for the Pilot Trainee Program are required to undergo rigorous pre-employment testing in accordance with QantasLink’s approved pilot recruitment standards.“QantasLink is firmly committed to its regional operations,” he said.
“We have invested $400 million in 12 new 72-seat Q400 aircraft. This will further increase capacity across our network, which covers 52 metropolitan and regional destinations throughout Australia."
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Without wishing to appear disrespectful, does QL provide Clearasil too?
Why don't Mr Dixon and Mr Kumar bight the so obviously unpalatable bullet and (as other Dash 8 operators, and indeed the industry in general are doing) PAY EXPERIENCED PILOTS PROPERLY.
This is just wallpapering over the problem.
In 5 years I'll bet most of those kids will be working for Emirates or Virgin.
VULGAR PHOTO CAPTION COMPETITION: "Smile kids, otherwise in 2 minutes Dixon will be down here to pluck out your 3 pubic hairs".
Why don't Mr Dixon and Mr Kumar bight the so obviously unpalatable bullet and (as other Dash 8 operators, and indeed the industry in general are doing) PAY EXPERIENCED PILOTS PROPERLY.
This is just wallpapering over the problem.
In 5 years I'll bet most of those kids will be working for Emirates or Virgin.
VULGAR PHOTO CAPTION COMPETITION: "Smile kids, otherwise in 2 minutes Dixon will be down here to pluck out your 3 pubic hairs".
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Get Over It!!!!!
Perhaps so, however I do not seriously think that these kids as you call them will be bad for qlink. As for paying experienced pilots more money... well how many times do we have to discuss this...
THEY WONT UNTIL THEY HAVE TO, AND CLEARLY THEY DO NOT HAVE TO!!!
Seriously... money is not everything... and if pilots are sick of $HIT pay at REX or QLINK or anywhere else for that matter then just **** and become a CEO. You cant always have the cake and eat it too! be greatful you dont live in africa or some of the worlds other hell holes... some people would give their parents away for even just an average life.
TID EDIT. Moderate your language bythenumbers or it's the sin bin for you.
THEY WONT UNTIL THEY HAVE TO, AND CLEARLY THEY DO NOT HAVE TO!!!
Seriously... money is not everything... and if pilots are sick of $HIT pay at REX or QLINK or anywhere else for that matter then just **** and become a CEO. You cant always have the cake and eat it too! be greatful you dont live in africa or some of the worlds other hell holes... some people would give their parents away for even just an average life.
TID EDIT. Moderate your language bythenumbers or it's the sin bin for you.
This is a band-aid solution to the bottom end of their pilot list.
These guys will not be suitable for a command upgrade for years!! Let them keep funding this program, it's only when they have no people to upgrade will the money improve for Captains.
Kumar has little regard for experience, as he pays other people to sought that problem out. Maybe they are not loud enough or resigning from their positions to get a message through!!!!
These guys will not be suitable for a command upgrade for years!! Let them keep funding this program, it's only when they have no people to upgrade will the money improve for Captains.
Kumar has little regard for experience, as he pays other people to sought that problem out. Maybe they are not loud enough or resigning from their positions to get a message through!!!!
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That's right, money is not everything. But my dear "numbers", that's exactly the point. The higher than normal pilot attrition is partly a result of the latest bean counter orientated "efficiency drive" having simply gone too far. Efficiency = much more work for not much money. i.e same money.
However once these kiddies realise they are also getting screwed and burnt-out, they will leave for greener pastures also, maybe sooner than you think, and so the experience drain will continue unabated.
I suspect they will be even less grateful for the job than the pilots they are replacing, having not been through the GA wringer.
However once these kiddies realise they are also getting screwed and burnt-out, they will leave for greener pastures also, maybe sooner than you think, and so the experience drain will continue unabated.
I suspect they will be even less grateful for the job than the pilots they are replacing, having not been through the GA wringer.
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'NUMBERS"
Please don't resort to offensive language in your post - even under the guise of not knowing how to spell correctly. My observation would suggest that most of the people who are really frustrated by the sad happenings at QL (ie those experiencing it at the coal face) are at least showing a little decorem in their posts! I deduce that you are probably not really one of them.
Please don't resort to offensive language in your post - even under the guise of not knowing how to spell correctly. My observation would suggest that most of the people who are really frustrated by the sad happenings at QL (ie those experiencing it at the coal face) are at least showing a little decorem in their posts! I deduce that you are probably not really one of them.
be FVCKING greatful you dont live in africa or some of the worlds other hell holes.
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KABOY,
Are you kidding? These guys will be ready for command in about 12 months. Just ask any Gen Y!
What has disappeared from the Aviation scene is the recognition that to become a competant professional pilot takes years of training , study and contemplation. I have heard so many times from GenY that a pilot is ready for their command upgrade on an NG with 500 hrs on jets. If this so, then why is VB and J* having a 50% fail rate on command upgrades? Gee whiz, some of these guys have a whole 18 months in an airline!
Realistically, these young sprogs wont be ready for -400 command for about 4-5 years as a minimum. I think we are in agreement on that. First, they will have to be taught to fly, then to think and then to operate. The worrisome aspect is that due to the attrition of experience within Q-Link, these guys may not be taught the finer points of airmanship such as traffic self-separation, use of the WX and crew communication skills. There are many subtlies in these areas where I have seen many a self opinionated young buck fall down.
I have flown with many contract FOs up here on the NG of the Y (why-haven't-I-got-my-jet-command-yet?) Generation who cant even use a WX radar properly yet. Some solid weather and they fall apart! Most of these guys had previous experience back in Oz or NZ as turbo-prop Captains and they whinge about when they will get a command.
I thnk the standards have slipped and that in many cases expectations exceed ability. Often there is good potential, but more work needed.
"In this game, we play for keeps"
( -Captain Ross; 'Fate is the Hunter')
Are you kidding? These guys will be ready for command in about 12 months. Just ask any Gen Y!
What has disappeared from the Aviation scene is the recognition that to become a competant professional pilot takes years of training , study and contemplation. I have heard so many times from GenY that a pilot is ready for their command upgrade on an NG with 500 hrs on jets. If this so, then why is VB and J* having a 50% fail rate on command upgrades? Gee whiz, some of these guys have a whole 18 months in an airline!
Realistically, these young sprogs wont be ready for -400 command for about 4-5 years as a minimum. I think we are in agreement on that. First, they will have to be taught to fly, then to think and then to operate. The worrisome aspect is that due to the attrition of experience within Q-Link, these guys may not be taught the finer points of airmanship such as traffic self-separation, use of the WX and crew communication skills. There are many subtlies in these areas where I have seen many a self opinionated young buck fall down.
I have flown with many contract FOs up here on the NG of the Y (why-haven't-I-got-my-jet-command-yet?) Generation who cant even use a WX radar properly yet. Some solid weather and they fall apart! Most of these guys had previous experience back in Oz or NZ as turbo-prop Captains and they whinge about when they will get a command.
I thnk the standards have slipped and that in many cases expectations exceed ability. Often there is good potential, but more work needed.
"In this game, we play for keeps"
( -Captain Ross; 'Fate is the Hunter')
You guys keep saying 'kids' and 'young uns' but I can see at least three of those trainees who look over 30 and the majority look around 25-27 bar two or three.
Just wondering what the average age is for people in this traineeship? Looks like it's being used as a window to get back into the industry for older guys too and/or people who haven't got ATPL subjects.
Just wondering what the average age is for people in this traineeship? Looks like it's being used as a window to get back into the industry for older guys too and/or people who haven't got ATPL subjects.