Rex Cancel More Flights
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I just caught the last bit of a story about REXs cancelled flights on ABC tonight, and at the end of the story some Capt so-and s0- makes this grand statement that in India Saab 340 pilots, or was it Dash 8's (same size anyway) pilots were getting $20,000 a month compared with $5000 here.... Dream on matey, actually B-777 pilots are only getting around $11000 / month in India, so I don't know where this guy got his information from but it made a good story for some lying journalist anyway.
Missed the ABC news.
Pity if someone has gone off sprouting numbers, especially if the amounts are incorrect. As pilots we are generally viewed by the public as highly remunerated, whether this be the case or not. So when someone mentions $5K per month, your average punter probably thinks something along the lines of, "wish I earnt that much", without having any concept of what the profession entails. The only thing the punter needs to know is whether or not they will have an air service.
The real issue is not how much we make, or do not make for that matter. But how much we need to be paid to stay.
And that should best be kept amongst ourselves.
Pity if someone has gone off sprouting numbers, especially if the amounts are incorrect. As pilots we are generally viewed by the public as highly remunerated, whether this be the case or not. So when someone mentions $5K per month, your average punter probably thinks something along the lines of, "wish I earnt that much", without having any concept of what the profession entails. The only thing the punter needs to know is whether or not they will have an air service.
The real issue is not how much we make, or do not make for that matter. But how much we need to be paid to stay.
And that should best be kept amongst ourselves.
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I put the Rex Media release through the Google translation function and came up with this -
Regional Express (Rex) has today announced a number of network schedule changes as a result of the continuing management brain cell shortage.
Rex will suspend services between Melbourne and Griffith, effective 25 February 2008, as a direct result of the managers and directors, that the airline – and Australian aviation industry as a whole – currently faces. The suspension of the Melbourne to Griffith route will have flow-on effects for other Griffith flights, with a reduction in the frequency of Rex services between Sydney and Griffith expected.
Rex has also announced a postponement of the Maryborough to Brisbane route. This service, suspended in November 2007, was due to recommence on 16 March 2008 but will now recommence in September at the earliest.
As a consequence of the management incompetence and short sightedness, services between Sydney and Cooma, originally scheduled to recommence on 19 May 2008, will now resume on 6 June 2008.
Highlighting the management problems in Australia, Rex Chief Pilot Chris Hine said, “No airline in the world can withstand a 60% annual attrition rate of its pilot strength without catastrophic damage and the fact that we have only suspended 6% of our services is a testimony to the dedication and sacrifices of our staff despite the management’s lack of a realistic response to this severe crisis.
“In distracting share holders to the pilot shortage, Rex has started its own pilot school and the first batch of 16 cadets, handpicked from 1,600 people with a pulse, will graduate in July 2008 with a GFPT and a huge personal financial debt. Thereafter we will have about 20 new pilots every three months waste their time and money, largely sheltering Rex management from the any blame.
Mr Hine warned that the situation will get worse in the year ahead with all three major domestic carriers – Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin Blue – set to embark on aggressive fleet expansion in addition to the start up of Tiger Airways.
Mr Hine elaborated on this, adding “Not all regional airlines have Rex’s ability to scam their own cadet programme and flying academy. I expect to see a bloodbath amongst Rex and angry parents and students in the months ahead. Even QantasLink will not be spared as evidenced by its recent reduction in services to ports such as Dubbo, Armidale, Coffs Harbour, Port Macquarie, Newcastle and Tamworth. I foresee many regional operators not making it through 2008, but our policy of keeping our heads in the sand is still sound.”
Commenting on Rex’s latest suspension of services, Mr Warrick Lodge, Rex General Manager of Network Strategy and Sales said, “This decision has been quite easy despite the level of support we have received from the Griffith City Council, the Maryborough City Council and the broader local communities. Rex will go to great lengths to drop the low yielding routes to cut costs and blame the pilot shortage that we have helped create!
……………………………………….
Rex will suspend services between Melbourne and Griffith, effective 25 February 2008, as a direct result of the managers and directors, that the airline – and Australian aviation industry as a whole – currently faces. The suspension of the Melbourne to Griffith route will have flow-on effects for other Griffith flights, with a reduction in the frequency of Rex services between Sydney and Griffith expected.
Rex has also announced a postponement of the Maryborough to Brisbane route. This service, suspended in November 2007, was due to recommence on 16 March 2008 but will now recommence in September at the earliest.
As a consequence of the management incompetence and short sightedness, services between Sydney and Cooma, originally scheduled to recommence on 19 May 2008, will now resume on 6 June 2008.
Highlighting the management problems in Australia, Rex Chief Pilot Chris Hine said, “No airline in the world can withstand a 60% annual attrition rate of its pilot strength without catastrophic damage and the fact that we have only suspended 6% of our services is a testimony to the dedication and sacrifices of our staff despite the management’s lack of a realistic response to this severe crisis.
“In distracting share holders to the pilot shortage, Rex has started its own pilot school and the first batch of 16 cadets, handpicked from 1,600 people with a pulse, will graduate in July 2008 with a GFPT and a huge personal financial debt. Thereafter we will have about 20 new pilots every three months waste their time and money, largely sheltering Rex management from the any blame.
Mr Hine warned that the situation will get worse in the year ahead with all three major domestic carriers – Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin Blue – set to embark on aggressive fleet expansion in addition to the start up of Tiger Airways.
Mr Hine elaborated on this, adding “Not all regional airlines have Rex’s ability to scam their own cadet programme and flying academy. I expect to see a bloodbath amongst Rex and angry parents and students in the months ahead. Even QantasLink will not be spared as evidenced by its recent reduction in services to ports such as Dubbo, Armidale, Coffs Harbour, Port Macquarie, Newcastle and Tamworth. I foresee many regional operators not making it through 2008, but our policy of keeping our heads in the sand is still sound.”
Commenting on Rex’s latest suspension of services, Mr Warrick Lodge, Rex General Manager of Network Strategy and Sales said, “This decision has been quite easy despite the level of support we have received from the Griffith City Council, the Maryborough City Council and the broader local communities. Rex will go to great lengths to drop the low yielding routes to cut costs and blame the pilot shortage that we have helped create!
……………………………………….
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Normasars...Normasars.
So the 717 pilot that pranged in; is he one of the ones you trained too? I thought you trained ALL the airline pilots in the world...oh great one?
FlySaucer
There are plenty of pilots being hired straight into Citations making between US$85-110 in the first year. Some have less than 1000 hours. The friend from uni' that went to the regional that is making US$110 is in his third year with the carrier. With penalties and retirement contributions it will be over US$150k this year, if he works hard, and he will to pay off college loans. Upgrade times are running at less than 2 years at most regionals, he got lucky and upgraded in three months.
I was lucky enough to be a direct entry captain with my present employer and so it's just a matter of timing more than anything.
There are guys that fly the Fed Ex Caravan out of Pittsburgh three nights a week and go to uni' near the airport that make close to $US60K. They are very short sectors of less than an hour and normally only two or three legs.
Anyway, I've got to take the boys skiing, it's beginning to snow and they're restless.
Cheers!
So the 717 pilot that pranged in; is he one of the ones you trained too? I thought you trained ALL the airline pilots in the world...oh great one?
FlySaucer
There are plenty of pilots being hired straight into Citations making between US$85-110 in the first year. Some have less than 1000 hours. The friend from uni' that went to the regional that is making US$110 is in his third year with the carrier. With penalties and retirement contributions it will be over US$150k this year, if he works hard, and he will to pay off college loans. Upgrade times are running at less than 2 years at most regionals, he got lucky and upgraded in three months.
I was lucky enough to be a direct entry captain with my present employer and so it's just a matter of timing more than anything.
There are guys that fly the Fed Ex Caravan out of Pittsburgh three nights a week and go to uni' near the airport that make close to $US60K. They are very short sectors of less than an hour and normally only two or three legs.
Anyway, I've got to take the boys skiing, it's beginning to snow and they're restless.
Cheers!
If REX came close to Surveillance Australias package I'm sure they would get a few pilots who would rather live in a nice regional town than Broome, Horn Island or Darwin, even with fly in/fly out.
Quote:
"No airline in the world can withstand a 60% annual attrition rate of it's pilot strength without catastrophic damage..."
Metro man.
I would even go one step further and say that if REX matched the surveillance offer (permanately), their crewing problems would be gone forever, and they would save their airline from "catastrophic damage"!
Helloooo.... McFly!!!!
"No airline in the world can withstand a 60% annual attrition rate of it's pilot strength without catastrophic damage..."
Metro man.
I would even go one step further and say that if REX matched the surveillance offer (permanately), their crewing problems would be gone forever, and they would save their airline from "catastrophic damage"!
Helloooo.... McFly!!!!
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$150K for a Saab Cpt. EG.
$180K for a NG Cpt. EG.
If those figures above are what can be expected if REX for Eg come to the party then it won't stop the flow of pilots to the $180K + NG'ers because pilots always go forward, not only in their aeroplanes but in their careers.
The regionals will always be a 'stepping stone' or a 'training ground', always has been always will be.
F
$180K for a NG Cpt. EG.
If those figures above are what can be expected if REX for Eg come to the party then it won't stop the flow of pilots to the $180K + NG'ers because pilots always go forward, not only in their aeroplanes but in their careers.
The regionals will always be a 'stepping stone' or a 'training ground', always has been always will be.
F
So what do you suggest they do flyitboy. continue to bury their heads in the sand while the whole thing disintergrates around them?
The stepping stone that you refer to may be applicable to some. The pilots that REX are losing now, not only include these people, but those who would not normally have moved on. The loss of these experienced Captains, if left unchecked will lead to not only the destruction of REX, but also to the demise of many regional air services. There is a lot at stake here.
The major carriers have always paid more than the regionals. So why the problem?
So don't be deluded into thinking it is not worth competing for "experienced" pilots. In the current environment it is the only thing that will save REX from losing another 60% of their pilots and collapse!
The stepping stone that you refer to may be applicable to some. The pilots that REX are losing now, not only include these people, but those who would not normally have moved on. The loss of these experienced Captains, if left unchecked will lead to not only the destruction of REX, but also to the demise of many regional air services. There is a lot at stake here.
The major carriers have always paid more than the regionals. So why the problem?
- Once upon a time a Regional Captain was paid approx what a Domestic F/O was paid. The incentive to move on, pay for an endorsement, retrain etc..., was not as great for those settled in their job
- The gap between regional wages and their Domestic counterparts has widened
- the lifestyle at the regionals was considered superior. Now everyone is working max hours. The old addage, " I might as well get flogged over there for more money, than stay here and get flogged for less" is common.
- The regional airlines today are large companies in their own right. Professionally run (operationally at least), with revenue, turnover and economies of scale that simply did not exist a decade or more ago. They can and should pay more.
- The answer to attrition has always been to recruit. Unless you have been living on Mars for the last 12 months, you will see that is now not a viable option!
So don't be deluded into thinking it is not worth competing for "experienced" pilots. In the current environment it is the only thing that will save REX from losing another 60% of their pilots and collapse!
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Krusty 34
You win the prize for the best post on this thread! Except major airlines didn't require pay for training anywhere in OZ until Impulse/Jetstar.
So Long
I am interested in how much time you have spent in the United States and in what parts? The Americans seem fairly well acquainted with international travel, investment and education. My wife did her Masters Degree at Macquarie University in 1989. She was a Rotary Foundation full scholar and gained her graduate degree at 21.
The Americans didn't know me from a bar of soap, gave me an opportunity on a handshake and allowed me to make my fortune. I didn't go to a special school, learn a secret handshake or sell my soul to anyone.
Some people find that all very bewildering on these forums but it used to happen all the time in another place too; that place was Australia!
You win the prize for the best post on this thread! Except major airlines didn't require pay for training anywhere in OZ until Impulse/Jetstar.
So Long
I am interested in how much time you have spent in the United States and in what parts? The Americans seem fairly well acquainted with international travel, investment and education. My wife did her Masters Degree at Macquarie University in 1989. She was a Rotary Foundation full scholar and gained her graduate degree at 21.
The Americans didn't know me from a bar of soap, gave me an opportunity on a handshake and allowed me to make my fortune. I didn't go to a special school, learn a secret handshake or sell my soul to anyone.
Some people find that all very bewildering on these forums but it used to happen all the time in another place too; that place was Australia!
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Interesting comments there 'chris'
I feel it's a different world these days
There's a lot more 'competion ' for the youth of today to persuade them towards a flying career. It's the following reasons that I think has us at where we are now, too many positions not enough pilots to fill them.
Many years ago the IT industry was all but non existant. The normal path for most youths was either to take up a trade,(usually from a tech school) become a professional such as a doc, lawyer dentist, scientist etc.(usually high school) or take up flying, somewhere in between. I say flying not in the same breath as professional (it is obviosuly but on a diff level) because it's not when compared to being one of the above (doc, lawyer) You don't need too good an education to be a commercial pilot but that doesn't apply for the other professions. But now in modern day few kids take up flying 'cause of the well known fact that the remuneration compared to other jobs is poor as well as the fact that to get there is hard work & costly with only a medical or slight dissability possibly grounding you for life. We have quite a lazy society these days, if it's hard work/expensive then you have lost a lot straight up!
The few (pilots) that are holding all the Co's together are getting tired.
Extar money won't make that tiedness any better nor will better T&C's what we need is 'pilots', & lots of them !
There is no quick fix here, this mess achieved over years of poor forth site on behalf of the majors & the fact that flying is no longer attractive is where the root cause lies. It's not up to us as pilots to fix the problem, the fix must come from above with strong forward planning. Time, that's the thing we have plenty of, just not for everybody !
CW
I feel it's a different world these days
There's a lot more 'competion ' for the youth of today to persuade them towards a flying career. It's the following reasons that I think has us at where we are now, too many positions not enough pilots to fill them.
Many years ago the IT industry was all but non existant. The normal path for most youths was either to take up a trade,(usually from a tech school) become a professional such as a doc, lawyer dentist, scientist etc.(usually high school) or take up flying, somewhere in between. I say flying not in the same breath as professional (it is obviosuly but on a diff level) because it's not when compared to being one of the above (doc, lawyer) You don't need too good an education to be a commercial pilot but that doesn't apply for the other professions. But now in modern day few kids take up flying 'cause of the well known fact that the remuneration compared to other jobs is poor as well as the fact that to get there is hard work & costly with only a medical or slight dissability possibly grounding you for life. We have quite a lazy society these days, if it's hard work/expensive then you have lost a lot straight up!
The few (pilots) that are holding all the Co's together are getting tired.
Extar money won't make that tiedness any better nor will better T&C's what we need is 'pilots', & lots of them !
There is no quick fix here, this mess achieved over years of poor forth site on behalf of the majors & the fact that flying is no longer attractive is where the root cause lies. It's not up to us as pilots to fix the problem, the fix must come from above with strong forward planning. Time, that's the thing we have plenty of, just not for everybody !
CW
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FLYITBOY
No!!! Definitely not ALWAYS!! . . . I didn’t want to. . . I don’t really want to still, but the pay, or lack thereof, does make me pause 
As has been said there is the lifestyle factor. I was one of those who, as Stationair8 posted, would have been in the Hazo/Kendall queue to the respective CP door. But alas. . . .
The appeal is there - actual flying, short sectors, lifestyle. It is what some want, and this applies to a broad spectrum of ages.
METRO MAN – nail on the head.
I currently have the privilege (and joy) of scooting around in a turboprop, albeit from a place I would rather not be in anymore. But the Company gave us sizeable pay increase, with the final figure still in the grinder (SA offer may make them think again), to slow the exodus and to recruit others. It worked for me and slowed me down – for a bit
Now if the Regionals offered what I get, and some abandoned that daft ‘pay for endorsement’ nonsense then my bags would be packed..
KRUSTY 34 – they can compete for me
As has been posted, the smaller companies have been quicker to respond, I am sure with great reluctance but they realised they had to or “last one out turn out the lights please”..
Heads must come out of the sand . . . soon?
The regionals will always be a 'stepping stone' or a 'training ground', always has been always will be.
As has been said there is the lifestyle factor. I was one of those who, as Stationair8 posted, would have been in the Hazo/Kendall queue to the respective CP door. But alas. . . .
The appeal is there - actual flying, short sectors, lifestyle. It is what some want, and this applies to a broad spectrum of ages.
METRO MAN – nail on the head.
I currently have the privilege (and joy) of scooting around in a turboprop, albeit from a place I would rather not be in anymore. But the Company gave us sizeable pay increase, with the final figure still in the grinder (SA offer may make them think again), to slow the exodus and to recruit others. It worked for me and slowed me down – for a bit
Now if the Regionals offered what I get, and some abandoned that daft ‘pay for endorsement’ nonsense then my bags would be packed..
KRUSTY 34 – they can compete for me
As has been posted, the smaller companies have been quicker to respond, I am sure with great reluctance but they realised they had to or “last one out turn out the lights please”..
Heads must come out of the sand . . . soon?
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OK, just a few questions please - I have been following this thread and if anyone would like to answer some questions seriously i would be thankful.
Firstly, I am not an airline pilot - however i am not up to scratch on the politics/economics of regional airlines. So here goes:
1. Is rex making profit? If so small or large?
2. If rex was to match surveillance australia then where does the extra money come from?
3. How many people does a dash 8 or whatever rex operates carry?
4. Therefore if gaining extra cash comes from increased fares then how much does the fare have to increase?
5. I am guessing serveillance Australia just charges the government more for the service therefore has the extra money to cough up for increased wages - is this right? Are the regional routes supplemented by government for supplying services to the country regions?
I am quite in favour of increased wages for the regional guys, as it sounds like you could get the same money working at coles and doing the hard yards to get your ATPL should be rewarded with a salary which comensurate with training and qualifications. I am just trying to understand that's all.
cheers,
Frazzled
Firstly, I am not an airline pilot - however i am not up to scratch on the politics/economics of regional airlines. So here goes:
1. Is rex making profit? If so small or large?
2. If rex was to match surveillance australia then where does the extra money come from?
3. How many people does a dash 8 or whatever rex operates carry?
4. Therefore if gaining extra cash comes from increased fares then how much does the fare have to increase?
5. I am guessing serveillance Australia just charges the government more for the service therefore has the extra money to cough up for increased wages - is this right? Are the regional routes supplemented by government for supplying services to the country regions?
I am quite in favour of increased wages for the regional guys, as it sounds like you could get the same money working at coles and doing the hard yards to get your ATPL should be rewarded with a salary which comensurate with training and qualifications. I am just trying to understand that's all.
cheers,
Frazzled
Thanks alot,
, you deserve it
Priceless
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Holy crap Batman, every 2nd thread eventually turns into terms and conditions bashing. Maybe we need a 3rd forum on Dunnunda & Godzone called Terms and Conditions ( or a lack of ).
Frazzled.
Those are accurate numbers from DirectAnywhere, but I'll just tweak them a little. Last April the REXPC (pilot comittee) crunched the numbers for a 40% payrise. Cost, $7.5 Mil P/A. Popular thinking was that if structured as a 12 monthly retention bonus, $30K P/A for Captains, and $18K P/A for F/O's, then it could be fully funded by a ticket levy of approx $6.25 without the need to directly affect profits. REX management made every excuse under the sun, but the reality is that they simply could not get their heads around paying their pilots more. and they still can't!
10 months later REX has seen a pilot attrition rate of 60%, including many senior Captains. Indications are that the next 12 months will see a similar level of bloodletting. If that happens then REX is screwed!
Unfortunately, the race out the door has gained considerable momentum. There are many who doubt that the 40% will now cut it. To fund a payrise and retention scheme similar to that proposed by Surveillance Australia, a ticket levy of approx $15 would be required.
Sadly it is what's now probably needed to save the current situation.
Wait a minute. I've said this before..... $15 a ticket or Collapse? Decisions, decisions?????
Gidday Spanwise.
Getting monotonous isn't it. The thread is titled Rex Cancels More Flights. The reason that flights are being cancelled is because pilots have left and are continuing to leave in droves to pursue better Pay, and usually better Conditions!
Go figure eh!
Those are accurate numbers from DirectAnywhere, but I'll just tweak them a little. Last April the REXPC (pilot comittee) crunched the numbers for a 40% payrise. Cost, $7.5 Mil P/A. Popular thinking was that if structured as a 12 monthly retention bonus, $30K P/A for Captains, and $18K P/A for F/O's, then it could be fully funded by a ticket levy of approx $6.25 without the need to directly affect profits. REX management made every excuse under the sun, but the reality is that they simply could not get their heads around paying their pilots more. and they still can't!
10 months later REX has seen a pilot attrition rate of 60%, including many senior Captains. Indications are that the next 12 months will see a similar level of bloodletting. If that happens then REX is screwed!
Unfortunately, the race out the door has gained considerable momentum. There are many who doubt that the 40% will now cut it. To fund a payrise and retention scheme similar to that proposed by Surveillance Australia, a ticket levy of approx $15 would be required.
Sadly it is what's now probably needed to save the current situation.
Wait a minute. I've said this before..... $15 a ticket or Collapse? Decisions, decisions?????
Gidday Spanwise.
Getting monotonous isn't it. The thread is titled Rex Cancels More Flights. The reason that flights are being cancelled is because pilots have left and are continuing to leave in droves to pursue better Pay, and usually better Conditions!
Go figure eh!
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rex
To flyitboy and some others I can guarantee you are wrong on a few of the issues.. not everyone wants to fly the big boys toys .. not everyone wants to live in the city area of MLB SYD or BNE.. for those that have 2 crew turbine experience and are willing to be happy for the next 10 - 15 years on a turbo prop as long as the pay is DECENT can anyone tell me ANY operator I can do that with and still live south of the BME DWN CNS/TVL line ....??
I am sure there are enough of us out there to provide long term crew for these guys well into the future if they were willing..
And please ... I am still a few years short of 40 so not quite past it yet !!
I am sure there are enough of us out there to provide long term crew for these guys well into the future if they were willing..
And please ... I am still a few years short of 40 so not quite past it yet !!