Merged: Jetstar EBA 4
Grandpa Aerotart
Why can't it be a good result for both?
Amazed no one has posted the result yet...ok I will.
58% Yes.
I think it will be seen in the fullness of time as a good result for all concerned.
Amazed no one has posted the result yet...ok I will.
58% Yes.
I think it will be seen in the fullness of time as a good result for all concerned.
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Your ideology is showing Rostov. Is there necessarily a divide between what's good for the airline and what's good for the pilots?
The little bird just smiled and said "excellent" that's all...I guess we'll find out what that means
The little bird just smiled and said "excellent" that's all...I guess we'll find out what that means
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58% yes is confirmed. What an absolute disgrace. Well done managers, I guess once again it will be a sweet Christmas bonus for you again out of the un-tapped Jetstar pilots pay kitty.
Nuthinondaclock.
Does your source give any information on the line training requirement for each of the conversion categories?
Would the line training for an ex long haul 777 driver be the same as that for a short haul 737 for instance.
I wonder also what influence CASA might have, on the mix.
Maui
Does your source give any information on the line training requirement for each of the conversion categories?
Would the line training for an ex long haul 777 driver be the same as that for a short haul 737 for instance.
I wonder also what influence CASA might have, on the mix.
Maui
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Just watched the Stanford Prison Experiment on YouTube that Chimbu posted the link to recently. Interesting quote from the ‘Guard’ around the 04:50 mark of part 2:
Nuf.
“One if the surprising things to me was that there was so little that the prisoners did to support each other after we started our campaign of divide and conquer.”
Nuf.
Last edited by Nuthinondaclock; 4th Mar 2008 at 06:25.
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For the information of Ppruners, the following has been posted on the Qantas pilots website by AIPA's President.
Let's hope he can get the AFAP and the JPA to bury the hatchet.
This is to announce that a 58% majority of eligible pilots have voted in favour of the Jetstar Airways Pilots Agreement 2008.
91 per cent of all eligible Jetstar pilots participated in the ballot which closed today at 12 noon.
On behalf of myself and Management, I would like to sincerely thank all Pilots who participated in the vote. We are delighted that the new Jetstar Airways Pilots Agreement 2008 has been voted favourably by the greater majority of Jetstar Pilots, both those on the existing EBA (Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) and those AWA pilots who wish to be now covered under the EBA.
We would also like to thank and acknowledge the involvement of both the Jetstar Pilots Association (JPA) and the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) who supported and were involved in the development of the successful Agreement.
We believe this new 5 year Agreement provides a positive and exciting future for our Pilot group.
Alan Joyce
Chief Executive Officer
Woods stated; "AIPA is concerned that Jetstar EBA 4 was revoted without effective consultation with Jetstar's pilots and the voting pool questionably extended via the admission of those on AWA's Nonetheless, a majority decision appears to have been validly determined.
Going forward, while I believe that AIPA is the most appropriate Association to represent all Qantas Group pilots and have no doubt that AIPA will soon represent a majority of Qantas Jetstar pilots irrespective, I have publicly stated that AIPA supports the industrial autonomy of Jetstar Pilots and would work collaboratively with AFAP to achieve consolidated representation for all Australian pilots."
91 per cent of all eligible Jetstar pilots participated in the ballot which closed today at 12 noon.
On behalf of myself and Management, I would like to sincerely thank all Pilots who participated in the vote. We are delighted that the new Jetstar Airways Pilots Agreement 2008 has been voted favourably by the greater majority of Jetstar Pilots, both those on the existing EBA (Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) and those AWA pilots who wish to be now covered under the EBA.
We would also like to thank and acknowledge the involvement of both the Jetstar Pilots Association (JPA) and the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) who supported and were involved in the development of the successful Agreement.
We believe this new 5 year Agreement provides a positive and exciting future for our Pilot group.
Alan Joyce
Chief Executive Officer
Woods stated; "AIPA is concerned that Jetstar EBA 4 was revoted without effective consultation with Jetstar's pilots and the voting pool questionably extended via the admission of those on AWA's Nonetheless, a majority decision appears to have been validly determined.
Going forward, while I believe that AIPA is the most appropriate Association to represent all Qantas Group pilots and have no doubt that AIPA will soon represent a majority of Qantas Jetstar pilots irrespective, I have publicly stated that AIPA supports the industrial autonomy of Jetstar Pilots and would work collaboratively with AFAP to achieve consolidated representation for all Australian pilots."
Grandpa Aerotart
Nuf I wish I could find a link to the recent, less extreme, experiment carried out in the UK. I think it would be more relevant to our professional situation.
It started off with 10-12 people, strangers, all flung together in a house and after several days, after they have built a team identity and started to form personal bonds, they are deliberately and strategically split into A and B and given exactly those labels and shirts to identify themselves...a uniform.
Within hours they are sitting at separate tables in the communal kitchen and within days team A develops an amazing sense of entitlement...that they somehow deserve the A label. Team B ends up being left with washing and other menial tasks...polishing shoes as an example...they have become second class citizens.
One couple who had actually developed a level of affection when they were all one group tries to go against this developing trend and is forcefully pulled into line by people who, while they had been quiet underachievers, bordering on losers, when the 12 were 1, suddenly became quite vicious 'leaders' when they had been inculcated with this sense of entitlement and power.
Where do we see that in our industry?
The pressure put on the female member of A, who had the hots for the chap deliberately put in B, was enormous...not conforming to team A's sense of 'tribe' was deemed a HUGE threat to the tribe and was punished severely and quickly.
It rapidly, as in mere days, became VERY confronting to watch.
I wonder why this isn't taught in CRM?
Some readers probably think I have lost the plot...I encourage you to read up on this facet of human nature. Stuff that may have confused will fall into place.
It explains everything from the current reality of our industry to the Nazi death camps to Abu Graib, Guantanimo etc...even the USA's world view. We are team A and we are entitled to drop bombs on any team B people (virtually anybody) who piss us off sufficiently...oh and you're gonna love our form of democracy...whether you fecking like it or not.
This is the nuts and bolts of divide and conquer.
Has it been successfully used in our industry by management?
Beyond the wildest dreams of avarice.
Can it be undone?
Across the industry...or QF group...probably not.
But the Yes and No voters are facing a moment of choice.
It started off with 10-12 people, strangers, all flung together in a house and after several days, after they have built a team identity and started to form personal bonds, they are deliberately and strategically split into A and B and given exactly those labels and shirts to identify themselves...a uniform.
Within hours they are sitting at separate tables in the communal kitchen and within days team A develops an amazing sense of entitlement...that they somehow deserve the A label. Team B ends up being left with washing and other menial tasks...polishing shoes as an example...they have become second class citizens.
One couple who had actually developed a level of affection when they were all one group tries to go against this developing trend and is forcefully pulled into line by people who, while they had been quiet underachievers, bordering on losers, when the 12 were 1, suddenly became quite vicious 'leaders' when they had been inculcated with this sense of entitlement and power.
Where do we see that in our industry?
The pressure put on the female member of A, who had the hots for the chap deliberately put in B, was enormous...not conforming to team A's sense of 'tribe' was deemed a HUGE threat to the tribe and was punished severely and quickly.
It rapidly, as in mere days, became VERY confronting to watch.
I wonder why this isn't taught in CRM?
Some readers probably think I have lost the plot...I encourage you to read up on this facet of human nature. Stuff that may have confused will fall into place.
It explains everything from the current reality of our industry to the Nazi death camps to Abu Graib, Guantanimo etc...even the USA's world view. We are team A and we are entitled to drop bombs on any team B people (virtually anybody) who piss us off sufficiently...oh and you're gonna love our form of democracy...whether you fecking like it or not.
This is the nuts and bolts of divide and conquer.
Has it been successfully used in our industry by management?
Beyond the wildest dreams of avarice.
Can it be undone?
Across the industry...or QF group...probably not.
But the Yes and No voters are facing a moment of choice.
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Thanks for the compliment Chimbu but you're just not my type 
Particularly now you've admitted to being a Big Brother viewer.
There's somethings that you can never get over.
Nuf.
Particularly now you've admitted to being a Big Brother viewer.
There's somethings that you can never get over.Nuf.
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Five years now without access to collective bargaining. I wonder who this is good for?
What's the old saying... "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"
So that's what I'll do...
So that's what I'll do...
Last edited by Transition Layer; 4th Mar 2008 at 10:46. Reason: completely lost for words...
