JQ EBA to sell out new hires
Spot on Capt Kremin...
Captain Sherm,
No one is out to steal JQ jobs, it's just about making your T&C closer (or on par) to that of QF mainline so that we can't be played off against each other in the future. Apologies for wanting to work together as a group to get you guys a pay rise...pretty selfish of me.
As long as JQ pilots persist with voting up conditions lesser than mainline counterparts to fly essentially the same aircraft (i.e. 737 v A320, A330 v A330) then I can't help but think YOU guys want OUR flying - not the other way around!
As for your comment's about selling QF shares, what a crock of ****! Low cost doesn't equal low pay, when will you guys stop being brain washed by the Leprechaun? Plenty of other reasons to sell them anyway!
TL
Captain Sherm,
No one is out to steal JQ jobs, it's just about making your T&C closer (or on par) to that of QF mainline so that we can't be played off against each other in the future. Apologies for wanting to work together as a group to get you guys a pay rise...pretty selfish of me.
As long as JQ pilots persist with voting up conditions lesser than mainline counterparts to fly essentially the same aircraft (i.e. 737 v A320, A330 v A330) then I can't help but think YOU guys want OUR flying - not the other way around!
As for your comment's about selling QF shares, what a crock of ****! Low cost doesn't equal low pay, when will you guys stop being brain washed by the Leprechaun? Plenty of other reasons to sell them anyway!
TL
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All this posturing between JetStar and Qantas pilots, very much like a hillbilly shotgun wedding! Each clan equally distrustful of the other, however they are forced to put up with each other due to the forced nuptuals.
Yes, there has been things said from both sides,however I truely think that there could be a future of mutual trust and understanding if we could all just bury the tribalism for a moment.
The only ones winning out of all this, is the peanut gallery management who are sh!t stirring from the side lines.
The last thing we want to see is a feud of the Hatfield and the McCoys proportions, we all know how that went.
Here's a suggestion, how about AIPA and the JPC liaising and lets say we all arrange a Saturday soon,say at the Coogee Bay pub or somewhere. All Qantas ,JetStar, Virgin and whoever else is in town, pilots welcome.
Get to meet a few of your fellow aviators in a social context, egos left at the door if you please.
Reminds me of the esprit de corps that used to exist pre that event which shall not be mentioned.
Who knows you might discover the chap or chapet sitting in the other flight deck might not have two heads after all.
Yes, there has been things said from both sides,however I truely think that there could be a future of mutual trust and understanding if we could all just bury the tribalism for a moment.
The only ones winning out of all this, is the peanut gallery management who are sh!t stirring from the side lines.
The last thing we want to see is a feud of the Hatfield and the McCoys proportions, we all know how that went.
Here's a suggestion, how about AIPA and the JPC liaising and lets say we all arrange a Saturday soon,say at the Coogee Bay pub or somewhere. All Qantas ,JetStar, Virgin and whoever else is in town, pilots welcome.
Get to meet a few of your fellow aviators in a social context, egos left at the door if you please.
Reminds me of the esprit de corps that used to exist pre that event which shall not be mentioned.
Who knows you might discover the chap or chapet sitting in the other flight deck might not have two heads after all.
Last edited by max autobrakes; 19th Jan 2008 at 09:38.
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about time we realised that basically we're all really on the same side - a little combined strategy is a good thing...besides sounds like it could be a good afternoon...evening...night.........et al;
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Great idea guys, as there doesn't seem to be much leadership from above, start from ground level with beer.
It's a generational thing, we can stop arguing about biplanes versus monoplanes, flying boats, 1966, AFAP/AIPA split, 1989, impulse, skygods, etc etc.
Bring it on as a regular event and venue Qlink, Jetstar, Virgin, Qantas, Emrites and Cathay guys on overnights, GA guys.
The old guys just have to remember to lock up their daughters......
It's a generational thing, we can stop arguing about biplanes versus monoplanes, flying boats, 1966, AFAP/AIPA split, 1989, impulse, skygods, etc etc.
Bring it on as a regular event and venue Qlink, Jetstar, Virgin, Qantas, Emrites and Cathay guys on overnights, GA guys.
The old guys just have to remember to lock up their daughters......
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Or if you're into to that sort of thing, sons as well!
Great idea, let's make it work rather than just talking about it.
I hear Corey Worthington might be free to act as the Party organizer.
Great idea, let's make it work rather than just talking about it.
I hear Corey Worthington might be free to act as the Party organizer.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 20th Jan 2008 at 04:20.
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Mr Boeing,
"Seems the training may well be lacking."
I heard a similar Jetstar story relayed to me by an ex AN FO.
It seems they were just touching down in BKK when the captain realised there may be insufficient runway remaining to stop the big jet, being heavy rain and all. So he jumped on the binders, pulled max reverse, checked spoiler deployment and they made the last exit comfortably.
Nice one skipper, remarked the FO as they taxied past the golf course.
"Seems the training may well be lacking."
I heard a similar Jetstar story relayed to me by an ex AN FO.
It seems they were just touching down in BKK when the captain realised there may be insufficient runway remaining to stop the big jet, being heavy rain and all. So he jumped on the binders, pulled max reverse, checked spoiler deployment and they made the last exit comfortably.
Nice one skipper, remarked the FO as they taxied past the golf course.
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Qantas may do longer command training but it does not mean better. What gets up my nose with posts like the one from Boeing is the inference that qantas training is the result of his input. As a line driver, you are trained according to ops policy and nothing more. If QF decided to impliment a shorter command course, you would have no say.
So Mr Boeing, JQ pilots undergo a shorter command course. How does this effect you? Are you claiming credit for the fact that QF has a longer command course?
So Mr Boeing, JQ pilots undergo a shorter command course. How does this effect you? Are you claiming credit for the fact that QF has a longer command course?
Nunc est bibendum
Bankstown, Anqrka is making a snide referral to the Qantas 1 over run at BKK in 1999. If you can see through it he's actually trying to compare penis size or 'your incident/accident was worse than mine'. Until J* have a prang (and i pray they don't) then the default response to any query about training standards will be a reference to a QF stuff up nearly a decade ( 
) ago. It's a shame really because such knee jerk 'I know you are but what am I' type discussions invariably short circuit critical evaluation of current facts and situations. 
Of course he could be right. J* crew may be aces and fly circles around QF drivers every day of the week. How sad then that their pay and conditions don't reflect that level of ability. In fact, their current pay and conditions don't take into account much of anything to do with what a professional pilot is 'worth' to the airlines. One could even make the argument that given that the J* pilots are obviously so much better than the QF drivers (who require longer courses and still aren't as good) that the J* pilots are chumps for accepting pay and conditions that are significantly less than their less skilled mainline colleagues.
Of course logic like this escapes people like (w)Anqrka who are only looking for every opportunity to fill in that chip that resides squarely on their shoulders by reminding QF drivers of the '99 prang.
) ago. It's a shame really because such knee jerk 'I know you are but what am I' type discussions invariably short circuit critical evaluation of current facts and situations. Of course he could be right. J* crew may be aces and fly circles around QF drivers every day of the week. How sad then that their pay and conditions don't reflect that level of ability. In fact, their current pay and conditions don't take into account much of anything to do with what a professional pilot is 'worth' to the airlines. One could even make the argument that given that the J* pilots are obviously so much better than the QF drivers (who require longer courses and still aren't as good) that the J* pilots are chumps for accepting pay and conditions that are significantly less than their less skilled mainline colleagues.
Of course logic like this escapes people like (w)Anqrka who are only looking for every opportunity to fill in that chip that resides squarely on their shoulders by reminding QF drivers of the '99 prang.
Last edited by Keg; 20th Jan 2008 at 07:00. Reason: Edited for clarify of one point.
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Not sure where you got the idea that I had any input into Qantas training Dynasty Trash Hauler as I never said anything like it. And to answer your questions, JQ's shorter command course does not affect me. I have no idea why you think it might and no, I am not claiming credit for the fact that Qantas has longer command training courses. I'm at a loss as to where you got these ideas from. I was just relaying a story that was passed to me and I would have thought that someone in that position would not have had to ask those questions. I suspect that he has missed something in his training at some stage.
As for the BKK accident, it highlighted where QF training was lacking and it was rectified.
As for the BKK accident, it highlighted where QF training was lacking and it was rectified.
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'your incident/accident was worse than mine'.
Keg, your somewhat childish response highlights how paranoid the QF pilot group is.
My post was an attempt to highlight that ANY airline can stuff up, QF included.
Your post then descends into a purile tirade about income levels. What relevence does this have to an A330 skipper not knowing what info is on the prog page of the mcdoo?
Keg, your somewhat childish response highlights how paranoid the QF pilot group is.
My post was an attempt to highlight that ANY airline can stuff up, QF included.
Your post then descends into a purile tirade about income levels. What relevence does this have to an A330 skipper not knowing what info is on the prog page of the mcdoo?
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Boys boys boys. This thread really has degenerated into a "my penis is bigger than yours" competition and at the moment, the Jetstar pilots seem to be on the defensive with some seeming to have a real chip on their shoulders. It's about time you blokes got together and woke up to the fact that you both work for the same lot of cronies who have you by the short and curlies and I might sugest that the Jetstar pilots submit themselves to a pubic waxing so they don't get pulled too much further cos it hurts! But what would I know, I'm just a dumb regional pilot 
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Pissing Contest
Oh Dear,
This thread has turned into one horrible pissing contest.
If I were senior management of the QF Group I would be reading the above posts and laughing my ass off. Grow up and leave personal/historical issues out of it.
It is very easy to divide and conquer a group that is already so hostile within its own ranks.
The enemy is approaching whilst the defenders sit around throwing stones at each other. Comical but equally upsetting.Talk about an easy target.
The tread is about how to improve conditions for JQ pilots.
If you are not happy with the deal talk to your reps at the JPC or call a piss up and have a chat with your co workers.
This is not QF vs Jetstar or an AIPA v JPC debate.
Get it together or lose out.
The company and its negotiators are not in fighting but sadly we are.
This thread has turned into one horrible pissing contest.
If I were senior management of the QF Group I would be reading the above posts and laughing my ass off. Grow up and leave personal/historical issues out of it.
It is very easy to divide and conquer a group that is already so hostile within its own ranks.
The enemy is approaching whilst the defenders sit around throwing stones at each other. Comical but equally upsetting.Talk about an easy target.
The tread is about how to improve conditions for JQ pilots.
If you are not happy with the deal talk to your reps at the JPC or call a piss up and have a chat with your co workers.
This is not QF vs Jetstar or an AIPA v JPC debate.
Get it together or lose out.
The company and its negotiators are not in fighting but sadly we are.
Nunc est bibendum
Paranoid Anq? I don't think so. Sick of people bringing up QF1 as an example of why QF are so crap? Absolutely- with apologies to former AN staff! How QF1 relates to a J* skipper asking a J* F/O why he wants to but WADD into the fix page I don't know.
Personally I could take or leave putting airports into the fix page. I do it most times as I like the instantaneous pictorial view I can get as to where I am in time or space when I expand the range out. Sometimes I can't remember them either....particularly after indonesia/ICAO went and changed Bali, Surabaya and Ujung (I think....been a while since I've been along that route)...but to not know why your off sider doesn't want them there is pretty basic.
So yes, we pranged in BKK. It was poor change management and poor risk assessment by QF as an airline at the time and a couple of errors by crew at the coal face. As you say, it could happen to anyone and everyone. Why it is relevant when some people are shining the torch on some (apparent) issues in one aspect of J*'s (apparent) training regime has got me absolutely stuffed. I guess you're into relativism and so a person (QF drivers as it appears in this thread) is not allowed to mention the possible plank in J*'s current eye because of a plank in our own at some stage in the past. Personally having been in an airline where we had the plank, had the prang and have now had it removed I would think others would be grateful when we try and warn them about what looks like a plank in their eye too.
(If you don't know what I'm talking about with respect to planks and specks and so on then you need to go back to your basic year 5 Scripture teaching and Bible study.)
How QF1 relates to a J* skipper asking a J* F/O why he wants to but WADD into the fix page I don't know. Personally I could take or leave putting airports into the fix page. I do it most times as I like the instantaneous pictorial view I can get as to where I am in time or space when I expand the range out. Sometimes I can't remember them either....particularly after indonesia/ICAO went and changed Bali, Surabaya and Ujung (I think....been a while since I've been along that route)...but to not know why your off sider doesn't want them there is pretty basic.
So yes, we pranged in BKK. It was poor change management and poor risk assessment by QF as an airline at the time and a couple of errors by crew at the coal face. As you say, it could happen to anyone and everyone. Why it is relevant when some people are shining the torch on some (apparent) issues in one aspect of J*'s (apparent) training regime has got me absolutely stuffed. I guess you're into relativism and so a person (QF drivers as it appears in this thread) is not allowed to mention the possible plank in J*'s current eye because of a plank in our own at some stage in the past. Personally having been in an airline where we had the plank, had the prang and have now had it removed I would think others would be grateful when we try and warn them about what looks like a plank in their eye too.
(If you don't know what I'm talking about with respect to planks and specks and so on then you need to go back to your basic year 5 Scripture teaching and Bible study.)
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Keg- The reference you are looking for is Lk 6:41-42 and The Message gives a contemporary feel to it. Your point has been demonstrated perfectly across the last 150 odd posts as each person tries to scramble for the higher moral ground and in the end we all just sound and act like each other. Maxautobrakes suggestion of the get together reminds me of the Christmas truce of 1914 where the troops on the Western Front just got sick of fighting each other and for a period of a couple of hours met in no-mans land and discovered that the people on the other side were just like them. Lets hope the Australian airline pilot fraternity can avoid what came next.
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How absolutely pathetic and appalling. You guys really ought to take a broad look at this thread and hang your heads in shame. Australian pilots will always eat the sh1t that is served up to them by GD and AJ.....Period!!! No ifs, no buts, just open wide and swallow.
Why? Because you all behave like such jerkoffs trying to outdo each other in whatever way you can, interested only in some kind of pissing contest, some kind of perverse need to prove yourselves to the world rather than get on with it, and why? What the f8ck is it good for and what have you ever acheived with this behaviour. Nothing, squat, niks, nada, f8ck all, and so it will go on.
For God's sake, take a look at what the likes of Dragonair have achieved just recently. And how did they do this? because they worked together, without ego, without the petulence of a two year old!! But hey, everyone knows we do it better in Australia. Yeah right......the lowest paid pilots in the western world. Onya Aus.
Why? Because you all behave like such jerkoffs trying to outdo each other in whatever way you can, interested only in some kind of pissing contest, some kind of perverse need to prove yourselves to the world rather than get on with it, and why? What the f8ck is it good for and what have you ever acheived with this behaviour. Nothing, squat, niks, nada, f8ck all, and so it will go on.
For God's sake, take a look at what the likes of Dragonair have achieved just recently. And how did they do this? because they worked together, without ego, without the petulence of a two year old!! But hey, everyone knows we do it better in Australia. Yeah right......the lowest paid pilots in the western world. Onya Aus.