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Aviation Icon Col Pay Lost in Crash (Merged)

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Aviation Icon Col Pay Lost in Crash (Merged)

Old 8th Dec 2007, 06:26
  #41 (permalink)  
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Unhappy The Killing of Col Pay

Col Pay's crash was no accident - he was set up long ago.
Col Pay died because he believed as passionately as I do in
the effectiveness of scooping water tankers in fighting
fires especially in quickly reaching and hitting spotfires in the early stages.
Col Pay died because of the decades of continued refusal by
all the downunder armchair experts, apathetic politicians, egotistical fire service bureaucrats and even some firies themselves to acknowledge the viability of fixed wing scooping tankers complementing helo and ground forces. Proven off the shelf technology which strangely works so well elsewhere around the world but which has been repeatedly rejected again and again downunder.
Notably by the likes of the then NSW Fire Commissioner Phil
Koperberg - recently stood down as Environment Minister over
domestic violence claims. He and others rejected out of hand
the well proven Canadair water bombers on offer many years
ago at bargain prices.
Every year the same old tired (and largely false) arguments
against why this equipment which works so well overseas is
not suited to Oz - no water,salt water,terrain,vegetation,
retardant toxicity, yada yada yada..... It has even been
suggested that the water would kill firies on the ground or
that the aircraft they would fan the flames on to them.
Or this from PPRuNe in 2001 - PK was interviewed by an
aviation magazine a number of years ago and asked about the
effectiveness of fixed wing aircraft for firefighting. His
response was quite negative including the comment that
"fixed wing aircraft carrying water would damage the trees".
And from the South Australia Environment, Resources and
Development Committee Canadair CL-415 Inquiry 1994
"The Committee was concerned however at the generally
negative reaction of these authorities to the various
proposals to acquire, to use, or even to test Canadair
aircraft for firefighting in Australia. It almost appeared
to the Committee that some opponents of the aircraft have
first decided that the Canadair is not suitable and then set
about constructing arguments to justify that decision.
This raises the suspicion that there has been no genuine
attempt to examine the benefits of the aircraft objectively."
Today dozens of these scooping air tankers and their crews
sit idle and silent on snowy airfields across North America
and Europe.
And so Col Pay died giving it the good old Aussie go of
trying to develop and test a local replacement for what all
these so called "experts" claimed was not relevant to
downunder conditions.
Responsibility for the death of Col Pay lays squarely at
the feet not only of the bureaucrats and politicians but
also the armchair experts who so willingly aided, abetted
and encouraged them.
Footnote -
I recall talking to the crew onboard the Canadair at Avalon some time in the 90s. IIRC the deal offered that year was no upfront $ commitment, that the company bore the cost of positioning the aircraft and crews into Australia. All the authorities needed to pay for was hours/fuel/crew when actually actively deployed fighting fires.
The Canadian guys simply were not able to comprehend the
crass stupidity of local authorities in refusing a deal like
that. Nor could I.
But they did say they wouldn't waste their time coming back
to Australia again. And sure enough - they didn't.
Vale Col Pay - a fair dinkum Aussie pilot and one who was
prepared to give it a bloody good go despite the naysayers.
Stuff it mate - you should have just let the country burn.
Ned Parsnip is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2007, 10:10
  #42 (permalink)  
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.......ned yr obviously very upset as we all are. But please remember even if yr written words are correct to some degree ( & i'm sure they probably are) the man Col Pay was his own man, 'he' decided what 'he' wanted to do, his way, the Col Pay way, that's the way he was. If he was alive today having survived such an event i believe he wouldn't say as much against the obstructioneers (if there's such a word !) as you mentioned i'm sure, but he was a 'doer' not a spitful man. Like I said yr probably right in most of what you say, yr obviously far more in tune as to the details of his efforts to improve safety in the face of objection than most of us.
I met him a few times over the years whilst chartering thru Scone etc. (loved his work as we all did) & he came across as a guy who got the job done even if in the face of adversary/stupidity.

Ned I'm sad for you, & all the others out there that feel cheated to some degree but Col wil never be forgotten for his outstanding efforts in everything aviation.

Ty for yr post Ned
Capt Wally
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Old 8th Dec 2007, 11:15
  #43 (permalink)  
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The damn shame is Wally, he's right!
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Old 8th Dec 2007, 12:05
  #44 (permalink)  
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he gave me the inspiration to just bloody well get on with it! I was young then but will never forget that meeting.
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Old 8th Dec 2007, 17:14
  #45 (permalink)  
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First time I've logged on for a few days and hadn't been paying attention to the news, can't quite believe what I've just read.............................

....a sad loss to be sure, one of the pioneers of classic aviation in Australia who's name is known by us all who wanted to take to the skies.

My sincerest condolences and sympathies to his wife, family and colleagues at Scone.

Launchpad McQuack is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2007, 00:00
  #46 (permalink)  
I'm in one of those moods
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.. he was a generous, no BS bloke and a great pilot!
. last saw him in NRM when he flew the Wright Flyer
RIP Mr Pay
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Old 9th Dec 2007, 02:22
  #47 (permalink)  
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One of the very few Aussie pilots I firmly and unreservedly respected.

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Old 9th Dec 2007, 06:27
  #48 (permalink)  
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Have been away training and can't believe what I've read. Like Launchpad I'm stunned and very saddened.

I met the man a few times and have a great photograph taken at Temora of Col and Max Hazelton chatting together; Priceless. What a gentleman of the skies. My sincere condolences.

Amos, age doesn't matter. Went flying in the sim only today with a 75 y.o. and he was as sharp as they come.

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Old 9th Dec 2007, 07:12
  #49 (permalink)  
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I also had the honour of meeting Col some years ago. My sincerest condolences to the Pay family. Aviation, especially the way they did it, has cost them much heartache over the years. Our industry is less with his passing. Words fail me. RIP Col.

Defenestrator is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2007, 08:51
  #50 (permalink)  
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Truly we have lost one of the greats. All aviation is diminished by this sad loss. RIP.
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Old 9th Dec 2007, 11:00
  #51 (permalink)  
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RIP Captain Pay

Deepest sympathy to the family of Col Pay and staff of Pay's Air Services on the loss of a true gentleman.

Col brought pleasure to so many at airshows across the years, from early days at BK and Schofields in the 70's to recent times.

'National treasure', 'legend' - words which are flung around so freely these days, but words which truly describe this man.

God bless him - surely he is in Heaven now with some other old mates like Ted Harrison and Keith Rose (the Boss) and Black Jack Walker.

Thank you Col for those memories, and the sound of the Rolls Royce Merlin overhead.

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Old 10th Dec 2007, 01:12
  #52 (permalink)  
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I would like to add my condolences to Col's family. Aussie aviation has truly lost a great contributor. I will still remember his opening of an airshow routine in the Mk.VIII spit with a loop from take off on Archerfields's 040 grass strip. He was a true ledgend. RIP
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Old 10th Dec 2007, 01:36
  #53 (permalink)  
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As good a bloke as he was pilot. My sympathies to his family.
Any news of funeral or memorial service plans?
Avid Aviator is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2007, 08:08
  #54 (permalink)  
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Funeral Service - Capt. Colin Pay

Latest news is funeral at 11.00AM Thursday 13th, Scone and afterwards at the Scone RSL.

RIP Col.
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Old 10th Dec 2007, 08:10
  #55 (permalink)  
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Col Pays Funeral Details
Just got these emailed to me at work.
Rural Fire Services advise the following details of Cols Funeral
Please be advised that the funeral for Col Pay will most likely occur this Thursday. The details are as follows:
o Uniting Church, Scone
o 1100hrs (99.999% confirmed)
o The family are more than happy to have RFS personnel attend and feel it would be an honour if they wore uniform.
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Old 10th Dec 2007, 22:49
  #56 (permalink)  
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I had the great privilege to do some low level flying training with Col. Will never forget buzzing around valleys and ridges under his watchful and experienced guidance. Condolences to the family: RIP Col; you will always be an Icon of Australian aviation.

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Old 11th Dec 2007, 08:08
  #57 (permalink)  
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I am not buying into any of the emotive stuff being written here, save to put forward what has been posted on the RFS internal web about the loss of a great person and role model to many (including myself).

The RFS Mourns the Loss of Col Pay

We are deeply saddened by the loss of a long term contractor and friend Col Pay, who was an icon within the aerial firefighting industry.

Col was a pioneer in aerial firefighting and his knowledge, skills and experience were of the highest standard. He had exceptional knowledge of fires and he was regarded as one of the most experienced fire bombing pilots in the industry.

As a contractor with the RFS since the 1990s, he has been integral to firefighting operations at some of the largest fires in the State. Col was professional, innovative and his wealth of knowledge enhanced both the aviation industry and firefighting across the country.

The firefighting industry is very close and the loss of such a generous and passionate person will be felt by Australian firefighters and those he battled major fires with in other parts of the world.

Col will be sadly missed by the RFS and our thoughts are with his family, friends and colleagues at this difficult time.

Multiple news outlets are reporting that the plane Col was piloting crashed into Lake Liddell, near Singleton, on Friday. Police divers are continuing to search the lake for wreckage.

Posted on the 10 December 2007

OpsNormal is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2007, 08:20
  #58 (permalink)  

Victim of a bored god

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An Aussie aviation icon has passed away. His contribution to aviation enriched all our lives.

This thread is to acknowledge Col's contribution to Australian aviation.

The issues of how and why are correctly the prerogative of the ATSB. Col would not have done what he did if he did not think it was technically possible and feasible.

Arm chair opinions of the hows and whys are not welcome.

RIP old mate. Blue skies with a big Merlin!

Tail Wheel
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Old 12th Dec 2007, 06:44
  #59 (permalink)  
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Red face

Published in the editorial section of the Newcastle Herald on Monday December 10, 2007.

Pseudonymn is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2007, 09:24
  #60 (permalink)  
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To a true flyer


My first solo nav, i landed scone..a young boy! with my lunch. You came up to me and asked what i was doing? "i'm on my first solo nav" i said.You took me to your toy shop and i ...........i found a mate....go the 185!!!

You showed what flying is about..........FUN...+ PASSION!

To all the Paye family my heart is with u...he is 'touching that hand of god'...and he will be fine..

Richard Waugh
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