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At drinks with the Jetstar Boss

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At drinks with the Jetstar Boss

Old 30th Nov 2007, 04:05
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At drinks with the Jetstar Boss

At drinks following the JQ check and Training meeting in Melbourne yesterday (Thursday 29th Dec) AJ asked the gathered mass why pilot moral was so poor in JQ and why the "lads" wont accept his offer. When told, he got irate and launched into a tirade about how well JQ treats the pilots and how good the current offer is.

But the punchline.......

He said if the pilots don't accept his offer he will only deal with pilots on EBA's. (Perhaps he was asleep or otherwise occupied last Saturday evening or maybe Ian has inside info from his pals)

and the parting shot.......

He went on to say that any movement in pilot salaries will destroy the JQ LCC model.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 04:10
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Does the little fella need a booster seat to sit at the bar with the big people?



That is quite ironic, the capitalists at the turn of the century argued in an inquiry that forbidding them sending kids down the mines would spell the end of mining in the UK...
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 05:07
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someone should

point out to the little general that his salary went from 6 figure to seven figure in a year and is going up another notch up this year. let alone his new status as Chairman lounge in QF plus all the other goodies bestowed on him now.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 05:35
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Yesterday 29th Dec???.... time machine here I come
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 06:27
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Tell the little Irish bloke to have a read of the December issue of the Australian Aviation. Makes for interesting reading. Here is a quote from one of the articles:
" How do you attract pilots into the industry? You pay them a remuneration that reflects their hard won skills and responsibilities and you give them terms and conditions that reflect the way you would like to be treated, like a human being. It all comes down to that famous movie line:" Show me the money".
Get a copy and read pages 89-92.
If you J* star guys don't get a good pay rise out of this new negotiations you have rocks in your heads!
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 06:46
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It was a typo DnP, but perhaps relevant when related to AJ and morale related to the pilots!
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 07:36
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So he's not that tall and he comes from another country. Gee....should have him flogged.
Hmmm...on the other hand there's that aircraft order which will supply jobs to lots and lots and lots of pilots, engineers and cabin attendants including some who are still in primary school and won't be working for JQ for years yet. The LCC model is a business model that works. If you don't like it leave. People are still sitting up all night on buses around Australia and the LCC doesn't yet serve every route. Do you really expect to get that growth in jobs and airframes out of a full-cost QF model? What do you want? 20%.....30%....40%....Second Officers getting $150K?.......You shouldn't be allowed in a cockpit let alone at a Check and Training meeting.
And speaking of that, if you are the sort of guy in a senior position in the company who rushes out of a meeting to put conversations on the 'net....that tell us all a lot. If....and I have no idea whether that's true...but if morale is low it might just be because of whingers like you for whom the glass is forever half empty.
Grow up and get over it. Leave and let someone who wants the job to have a shot. I'm sure they'll waive your notice period so you can leave.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 07:58
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The LCC model is a business model that works.
First thing to remember is that Alan Joyce is really a frustrated pilot!! I have read in a interview him saying that he really wanted to fly but for whatever reason didn't.

Secondly why is there a move worldwide from all the LCC to increase their yields and move closer to a legacy airline model?

The Big European two are moving toward package deals hiding the airfare in the total price.

Southwest are looking at targeting the business sector.

Jetstar is not a real LCC they are just there to be used to protect Qantas from losing market share and for leverage in QF IR negotiations. They are way to close to QF in so many ways to be considered a real LCC!!

I think that is why some people get angry over the wages issue. They see it as QF just trying to screw their own. However of the few Jetstar people I have met they all think it is a great job and all things considered are happy.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 08:11
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No wonder the little fella needs bodyguards!

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 08:38
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Capt Sherm,

"The Low Cost model is a business model that works"

Yep. Especially when you have a parent company footing your bills for you.

Complete and total moron just doesn't quite cut it for fools like you who believe we should be doing our jobs for less than we are worth.

D1ckhead

M
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 08:51
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Thanks buddy......the tenor and content of your reply tells us all exactly what you are worth.....you actually probably made more sense, tho' unwittingly, than you have for a long time
Even the finest brain surgeon in the world is worth only what someone is willing to pay him. And you.....ain't no brain surgeon.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:01
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I have just noticed that you are a baby boomer.

Enjoy your retirement at the expense of us won't you?! Thanks for leaving such a wonderful mess for my generation to deal with.

Perhaps I would have been more accurate labelling you as generation selfish.

M

ps - I will never begrudge what our SOs make as in the context of International operations they are cheap labour.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 09:18
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No no no M....you are (I think?) a pilot....stay focused. The main thing is the next thing etc etc.
This is abut how a LCC works, in a symbiotic relationship with its parent or by itself. Both tried and true strategies, both legal, both well tested
Faced with Virgin and Tiger at home, Freedom on the Tasman and (one day) Singapore etc on the Pacific alongside V-Australia.....exactly what would you....not others....YOU personally have done to protect the Qantas Group's revenue stream and shareholder interests? And the 30 something thousand jobs? Hope for the best? Light candles? Sacrifice a lamb? Or actually face real world issues and the simple fact that lower fares mean more jobs....for our friends, colleagues and family.
I would love every pilot to retire rich (wish I could) but you can't do that without a job.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 10:32
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Fella's

Don't even bother responding to Captain Sherm. I can't even understand what he is on about, if someone can work it out, let me know.

Accounting 101 Captain, supply demand! THEY NEED S$%T LOADS OF PILOTS!

Great, lots of jobs, we can all work that one out, but at what price? Great I have a job, but I can't afford a house. What planet are you on! You sound like management to me, or you have been brained washed.

At J* last eba you all could have got 15% more pay. That came straight from your HR managers mouth. WAKE UP!
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 18:03
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Captain Sherm,

I used to work for one of the most succesful LCCs in the world, easyJet. It was also one of the best paid pilot jobs in Europe. Southwest, the model that all others are supposed to emulate, has amongst the best paid pilots in the world.

Part of the LCC model has been to attract and retain very good, skilled and motivated staff by offering good renumeration and working conditions. This has been very successful at many airlines. The first to break this mould were Ryan air (Now who do we know who used to work for them?) who are now having to employ pilots from such places as South America and from former Easten Block countries, together with languadge difficulties, cultural and standards problems, to the extent that saftey has become a real issue.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys (or at least good blokes who don't realy give a Sh1^ about the company).

Is that what you are advocating?
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 19:05
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Its good to mention Southwest…and its highly unionized highly paid workforce. And there’s lots of growth left in 1-3 hour markets in the US. SW is already the biggest airline in the world if you measure that by daily passenger boardings vs ASKs.
But it wasn’t always thus. 1971 they started within Texas (not covered by CAB rules) and at that time, in fact for a long time, they weren’t paying top dollars at all.
It took SW about 9 years to get to 22 737s (roughly JQ’s domestic fleet today after a couple of years of the 320) and the beginning of inter-state flying. And yes….while Jetstar has Qantas to help it start…..so did SW have it’s privileged position at Love Field. Almost every Noth American major has tried to start something to stop SW, none have really succeeded. “Shuttle by United”, “Ted”, “Song” “Continental Lite”, "Frontier Horizon", “Jazz” etc etc. Majors…aka Legacy Carriers….have to do something but the fact is that few have done it as well as QF did with JQ.
Who knows how well JQ pilot and the rest of the staff (remember them?) will be paid in the years ahead? I guess that would be a function of how well the airline goes wouldn’t it? And the collective will of the pilot body….(please refer to a bazillion Pprune threads on pilot unions in OZ)….and pilots willing to vote with their feet rather than whinge….I had a mate years ago in another world who got a phone call in the middle of a 727 class at a dodgy US freight outfit…..”Hey AJ, a mate of mine is starting up an overnight parcel service using Falcon jets…he’s going to call it Federal Express…you could get seniority number 12…what do you think?”. AJ was wise of course, like most pilots when outside the cockpit…”Never happen!!!” he replied and wrote off millions of future earnings in seconds.
Australia is in transition. From the way it was to the way it will be. Don’t judge it all just yet. Dixon and Joyce face far more implacable foes than their pilots…and the truth is they are not foes at all, quite the opposite….and they are building a group wide strategy which combines the strengths of the QF brand with JQ’s low cost ability to protect QF Group market share, and attract and expand value-driven markets. Its not a perfect process I am sure. I’ve spent years with a very well resourced Asian carrier on the 777 and yet they too are starting their own LCC to stem the tide of market share. The world is changing and if we have the Situation Awareness we are paid for….we should smell the coffee…and the roses…and get on board a changing world.
“I deserve to be paid more”…is not a rallying cry that would have me follow you over the parapet into the war…..just take it easy and stop listening to slogans. Life unfolds in our flying world and I have to tell you that for it to unfold with jobs for all is not the worst thing at all. And by the way....my cellar is full of my note from Micro-Economics 101,201,301 and 401....and that was when you went to university with a tram ticket, pencil and notebook, not online with a glass of wine and a keypad. iIf you PM me I can arrange to send you cartons full so you can study the things we "boomers" learned while you were in nappies.
As for "can't afford a house"....hmmm...maybe not in Vaucluse just yet. Lest said the better here. Save up and look to the outer suburbs as we all did.
And if you weren't aware...SW is not pefect. Recent years have seen 2 horribly landing accidents.....no Asians or other lesser pilots on board. It can happen.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 19:09
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He's probably advocating what aircraft siad on another thread and that is that pilots should be paying the airline for the priveldge of flying their aircraft. Weird dude.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 19:17
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Oh a brilliant riposte Metro.

I am though, not trying to advocate anything, just exand and enlighten. You follow your own nose into the future thanks. And read posts before showing your prejudices.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 19:25
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You posted whilst I was thinking up my brilliant riposte. I actually meant aircraft was the weird dud, not you.
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Old 30th Nov 2007, 19:54
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Captain Sherm,

It's all very well to spout economics, however, in the Australian environment you can work for Virgin, Jetstar or Qantas (and now perhaps Tiger) and thats IT.

It's not an easy matter to take your bat and ball and go elsewhere if you don't like Jetstar terms and condition, as you imply.

Correspondingly for the airlines its not an easy matter to hire new staff either.

These considerations make the negotiations over pay and conditions slightly incestuous.
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