Oz Based Cathay FO's

[Grivation]

Anyone contemplating jumping over to Cathay as an FO on the A330 based out of Australia should be aware that the salary has just been REDUCED from A$118,000 to A$92,000.

Pilot shortage? Cathay management don't seem to think so

[WaldoPepper]

Also, you probably won't see a command unless you move to HKG.

[Jet Man]

Reduction in salary for FOs already employed or reduction for new pilots taking the job?

[Grivation]

New pilots from 1/1/08.
Less money than a Virgin, Jetstar or Tiger B737/A320 FO to fly longhaul on an A330/340.

[Ralph the Bong]

Has Tiger released pay rates for A330 pilots?

[Harbour Dweller]

From Jan 2008 any new Australian based First Officer's starting salary will be A$92 000.

Below are the minimum requirements for Direct entry FO at CX, DJ & J*

*QF is not included as there are no Direct entry FO positions

Cathay Pacific

A minimum of 1000 hours in one of the following categories:

1. Airline Jet Transport
2. Command Turbo Prop (MAUW greater than 20,000 Kgs)
3. High Performance Military Jet
4. Corporate Jet Command

Virgin Blue

• Total Flying Time - 1000 hours (at least 500 hrs Multi Engine)

Jetstar

• Minimum 2000 hours total flying total time of which 500 may be helicopter;
• 500 hours Pilot in Command or First Officer on Multi-Engine Aircraft; and
• 250 hours Pilot in Command of which 150 may be ICUS

So Cathay have the highest minimum experience requirements yet as of 2008 will offer very similar pay as Jetstar & VirginBlue (assuming Level 1).

Just who does Cathay think they are going to attract?

[Aussie]

Some how they still manage to attract them!

[PCFlyer]

Originally Posted by Aussie

Some how they still manage to attract them!

Well lets wait and see post Jan 2008 ...

Would you apply ???

For my vote ...
$118,000 =
$92,000 =

[Lord Flashhart]

I'd say Cathay wants its pilots in Honkas. I know guys who have knocked back commands to stay in Oz, clearly not ideal outcome for CX.

[WaldoPepper]

I think the opposite is true. It costs CX a heap of money to have expats in HKG. They have to pay housing, schooling, medical. None of which is payed for on the base.

CX just think it's still an employers market. Typical CX...only a few years behind the 8-ball!

[HughFlungPoo]

Wake up.

It's 92 plus allowances plus 15.5% super. This is probably better than Jetstar starting wage, and nearly better than Virgin.

Something like this
Year 1 92
Year 2 94
Year 3 96
then in year 4 it jumps to 120 odd.

So at the year 4 mark you'll outstrip them all.

Furthermore you're looking at a command spot in about 8 years in one of the largest growing fleets in Asia.

[Wine Glass]

HughFlungPoo....wake up you say?

Mmmmm....lets have a closer look at what you claim.
It isn't 8 years to command. Right now it is a little above that - and that is without the incoming influence of a change from retirement age 55 to RA65. A 10 year stay of execution for the seniors is going to do wonders for upgrade times. Plenty of discussion and number crunching on the Fragrant Harbour site about the actual impact. The consensus seems to be command in the 13-14 year time frame IF expansion keeps it's current pace. So, 8 years is a complete furphy. If you work in HK you would know that, or you are being disingenuous.
Secondly, you have to compare apples to apples. If you want to talk about time to command, are you talking about in Australia? If someone takes a DEFO spot in Oz, are they prepared to move to HK to take the command (in 13 years)? That would entail commuting or dragging their family up, which introduces a raft of considerations that don't have to be contemplated if you are going to stay in Oz. Pollution (unbelieveable and getting worse), schooling (good luck in getting your primary school/high school aged kids in anywhere decent) etc. Because there will be no command slots in Australia. So...if you are not prepared to eventually move in XX years when you are probably very settled in your Oz life, when can you expect to get a Oz command? Given the limited slots, RA65 to reduce turnover and many, many, many people ahead in seniority who will be bidding for slots I think a newbie now would be very lucky to ever see one.
Lets keep comparing. Yes, the pay goes up at the four year point, so you are now overhauling a VB pilot who joined the same day (which is only fair if you fly something bigger and had higher entry requirements to begin with). And the pay will incrementally increase as well. But - what's the upgrade time in VB? Right now I believe it is around 5 years? So, the DEFO just overtook his VB mate in the $ stakes, then a year later his mate gets his command (caveat - assuming B737) and leaves his DEFO mate in the dust again.
Food for thought. Not trying to tell people how to make their decisions, but wish to add some clarity and actual considerations to the mix.

[stevie g]

Exchange Rate?

It might be that Cathay's cost base is rising as I think the HKD is pegged to the USD and the AUD has increase by a good percentage in the last year or two ...... so going back to 92K may actually still be an equivalnet amount of HKD ....

Thats no help if you live in the land of Oz!!

[Keg]

Four years to $120K and thirteen years to command? The pay is better along the way in QF and they too are running at 13 years to command.....and that could actually reduce by a few years over the next 3-5 years.

[WaldoPepper]

In addition to what Wineglass said...

Currently the retirement age in HKG is 55. On the base in AUS it will be 65. The way the COS works is that once you reach 55 in HKG, you are forced to retire.

The only way to keep working past 55, is if you:

1. Become a check & trainer or
2. Take a base out of HKG or
3. Transfer to the freighter fleet.

So to make command slots worse in AUS, as all the senior guys get to 55, the bases will become flooded (assuming they want to keep working). As a junior member, I don't see there being much hope of getting a command slot on a base at all.

[HughFlungPoo]

Time to command.

Firstly we're all crystal balling some issues. Yes I accept the retirement age issue may have an impact, but no one really knows for sure - it's all speculation. Currently Cathay commands are somewhere between 8-10yrs. How much or if indeed they will blow out is open to conjecture. Now that said, even if it's out to 13 years, that brings it into line with Qantas.

Yes, if you want a command you will have to take a HKG base, but as has been highlighted, you can commute. No it's not easy or desirable, but quite achievable.

In fact at least you can commute with Cathay.

Now let's compare apples with apples.........

Virgin or Jetstar debatably a much higher work rate than Cathay
Virgin or Jetstar extremely difficult to commute
Virgin or Jetstar lower starting wages.

If we're viewing things over the longer term.....

A Cathay pilot starts with reasonably higher wages, get's overtaken when their Virgin Counterpart achieves command (crystal ball it) at the 6 year mark. For the next 7 years they are on a touch lower, but at the 13 year mark they overtake their Virgin buddy. For the next 10-20 years they are on a much better pay packet. In the long run they will make more money, while liviing in Aus (which ever City they want), doing less work. I will admit the only down side here is the commuting - but it is workable.

Can I say wake-up again, or is that inflammatory.....yeah I know it is......sorry

[Team America]

Can anyone post what a QF 330 driver is on? CX should be paying that.

$92-120K + is an insult to the industry.

Aside from a free A330 endo why would you take it?

Would be better off $$$wise with the QF S/O to F/O road.

[OhSpareMe]

As a QF A330 FO I pulled in slightly over 162K last year (not including superannuation).

And that, IMHO, is what it is worth to do the job.

[DUXNUTZ]

What do the S/O's get?

[Bendo]

What are V Australia offering their FOs?