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HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies

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HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies

Old 23rd Dec 2007, 08:17
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You and I both know that but they wouldn't give a flying fudge. But the impact would hit QF a lot harder if public are onside. Doesn't matter what they think what are they going to do go around to all the LAME's houses', no. But if QF see a threat in them losing trust in the company all they see is money walking away. I say bring out all the dirt the MRO and how the work overseas is Dodgy let it all erupt again.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 08:37
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Yes it would..

The fact is you will NEVER have the public on side. NEVER.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 08:55
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PAF,

What would YOU have these blokes do.
You talk about PIA losing the ginger-beers 'public support'.
What is this 'public support' supposed to gain them. It won't change Qantas managements thinking. Qantas are BIG advertisers and I doubt that most mainstream media will give the engineers a fair go anyway. i.e. pointing out the disparity in management pay rises to their lack of payrises, or the history of this dispute.
I am not personally involved in this dispute.
Unfortunately management 101 seems to teach that when EBAs fall due, get in high priced consultants (this covers your @rse), avoid negotiating, this will allow no payrises and savings to the company until new EBA. Take everything to the 11th hour and beyond, scare empolyees with doom and gloom scenarios, threaten to send jobs offshore, offer bugger all, then offer bugger all plus $1. Hopefully by this stage employees are so tired of the whole thing and feel that they did get something extra for their troubles that they vote to accept.Then reward yourselves with big bonuses and promotions. What they seem to forget that this treatment will eventually reach a critical point.
Good on you guys, stick to your guns. You are an ASSET not a COST.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 08:59
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Thumbs up

What would YOU have these blokes do.
Take the initial deal and say "Thank you for a job" - or quit.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:01
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I reiterate. The union needs to present a reasonable case to the general public. It may cost $ but there needs to be a campaign. Newspaper avertisement? website? Something that gets across the message that Qantas is slowly being destroyed by GD, DC & Co. Keep the 5% low key; mention it and back it up but DO NOT make it the main issue in the public eye.

Talk about lack of recruitmen, training, spares etc and how this has impacted on existing staff. Talk about the sharp increase in manpower turn over. Talk about the questionable quality of 3rd party providers. Talk about the failed takeover and senior managements involvement. Finally, talk about the reasons behind 5%.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:05
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Hey PAF..... great idea! Take a leaf out of your own book and quit!

The PIA is happening. over three quaters of LAMEs voted so. Like it or get over it.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:09
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P.A.F = Kevin Brown.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:13
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Devil

Keep the 5% low key;
Yup.. no-one will pick up on that! Good idea!
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:18
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PAF

A quitter never wins.

Why quit.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:21
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If the conditions being offered are so bad then you could do better elsewhere right?
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:25
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Thats the attitude, rather than fight, run away.

For Sale --
PAF's army rifle, never fired , only dropped once.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:25
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PAF....
Profit in $$$ is a useless stat. If QF use $6 billion in assets to achieve $1 billion in returns - what's the return on that. Then factor in the risk they take to achieve that above the risk free rate.... that's what determines a good return or not.
To make a silly example, $1 billion in profit using $100 billion in assets is horrible.
If you chew into that $1 billion (and with an agreement over the long term) you devalue the company.
Today 19:56
That's why Dixon was going to be gifted $60,000,000 for the QF sale. Where was the value in that? You conveniently come up with these figures like you are Dixon himself.
Oh yes.. The public in the terminals will fall for that chestnut. You are a genius!
Do you really think the public will ever be on side? I am putting my health before anything else. I know no one else cares for it except me..Qf certainly doesn't.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:31
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That's the spirit. The public doesn't care. All they care about is getting on the aircraft they booked and going someone.

The argument that senior management don't deserve a senior salary is silly. Further to that it is not for you to decide - it's for the shareholder. Convince the shareholder you are worth $60 Million and it's yours. That's what it comes down to.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:35
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PAF

Don't know who you are but i see you've also been agitating on the cabin crew eba thread. You must be management or one of their stooges or just plain deaf.
1500 eligible voters on lame register and 1200 yes votes means your opinion, (is it yours?) will carry little weight and sway no one. We're sick of the threats, scaremongering and lies. Also a bit sick of q management telling us to tighten belts, then watching profits rise again and then watching management taking all the plaudits, pat each other on the back and taking a very large snoutful from the trough.
We're not asking for a king's ransom, merely a reasonable return for our own efforts, which have not gone unnoticed as i've received emails from all and sundry manager (well, their secretaries) telling us all how good we've been this year, and thanks for our effort.
Well this year we'd like that thank you to be somewhat more tangible.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:42
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PAF, you chose not to read the rest of my post. I suggest you go back and read it. I shall restrain myself from typing what I think of you.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:43
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The argument that senior management don't deserve a senior salary is silly. Further to that it is not for you to decide - it's for the shareholder. Convince the shareholder you are worth $60 Million and it's yours. That's what it comes down to
PAF..This may have been legal but was it moral? Suppose you couldn't answer that.
Also, look at who have the major QF shareholdings. It's big buisness looking after big buisnesses. (I'll give you a pay rise if you give me one). I don't believe Dixon was ever worth $60 mil. or ever shall be. It should have been distributed to staff equally for all their efforts in the rot that has set in.
Just a side note. Would love to see an independent company survey QF staff morale.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:58
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For Sale--

PAFs Tank- one forward gear, six reverse.

But seriously, you are sychopantic little toad.

I can envision great-grandpa PAF in WW1. Safely ensconced 15 miles back from the front, telling his superiors what a fantastic job they are doing, that its not their fault that they sent .22 cartridges to the soldiers with the .303 rifles and vice versa. That they sent hay to the mechanised division, and petrol to the cavalry. That they forgot to bring the medical corps.
Being gobsmacked that the troops got together and sorted it out anyway, and then had the temerity to asked to be released for R&R after two years in the trenches.Great grandpa PAF asks 'don't they know there is a war on' and then asks for a medal.
The fruit doesn't fall too far from the tree
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:59
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Getting the Public Onside

When French ATC go on strike (every summer) or German railway workers go on strike and it's usually for a fair/valid reason the public tend to have some sympathy for them and also not a little empathy, as long as the reasons are in the public domain.
Well Boys from Bexley, get out there and get the message out. This once great Australian company is being brought to it's knees and guess what? It's not terrorism (bloody tea towel heads) or SARS (bloody asians) or competition (bloody yanks). It's an inside job! Bloody Aussies!
You (we) have contacts in the media, so get the message out.

Say it once and say it loud,
I'm a LAME and F**kin proud
Say it again and this time louder
We're qantas, but could be prouder.
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 10:06
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max1 & reflux

Hit the nail on the head max1 and reflux, nice rhyme but probably a bit too long for a badge or bumper sticker. Still, seems to have sent paf off to consult with his handlers. 'Oh they're picking on me those nasty engineers, what can I say back"
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 10:15
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PAF Pushing the company's view

You can try to distribute your company views here but it wont help your cause.We are united (just look at the ballot results).I have never seen all the LAME's so determined.Moral is at an all time low,you guys in management can take the credit for that.We have all the tools to succeed.

Worldwide LAME shortage,sympathetic public and the comitment to follow through with this.

What management doesn't understand is that we contribute greatly the safety record that Q is known for!!!.Without that they will loose thousands of customers. It will only take one incident.


Also one majour rule in business is "a happy worker is a good worker".Lots of small business operators know this but not Q. It costs them untold millions.Get the employee's offside and it will cost you heaps.Not even the best bean counter can put a figure on it. Just all the little things,avoidable delays,resource wastage,leaveng apu's running e.t.c, pilots flying faster,taking extra fuel,flying lower.


So PAF 3% increse instead of 5%.Saving money????? Look at the big picture!!!!!!!!


Strike breakers???? The company will never get enough scabs to make a difference.
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