REX suspends Cooma services - due to pilot shortage
Join Date: May 2007
Location: qld (if you couldn't work that out from my name!)
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow aircraft, such an armchair expert. Get back to flight sim inbetween your trolling.
Anyone who has trained/operated with Asian crews for a significant time will be able to instantly recognise you have not done so, and are pulling stuff out your *** again.
Yes, everyone has pride. No-one likes to look like an idiot, but to think the strength of this in Asian culture and it's effects in aviation is on par with Aussies, or any other country's drivers, smacks of ignorance.
Do some serious time working with Asian people and learn it the hard way, or actually take a long hard look at the statistics. The recent 73 overrun might be a good starting point.
Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic people - very humble, respectable and have the ability to make fantastic drivers with great mental aptitude. And I loved working with them. But to say saving face is no less a problem there than anywhere else, well, once again proves to the pilot fraternity you are an idiot.
Anyone who has trained/operated with Asian crews for a significant time will be able to instantly recognise you have not done so, and are pulling stuff out your *** again.
Yes, everyone has pride. No-one likes to look like an idiot, but to think the strength of this in Asian culture and it's effects in aviation is on par with Aussies, or any other country's drivers, smacks of ignorance.
Do some serious time working with Asian people and learn it the hard way, or actually take a long hard look at the statistics. The recent 73 overrun might be a good starting point.
Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic people - very humble, respectable and have the ability to make fantastic drivers with great mental aptitude. And I loved working with them. But to say saving face is no less a problem there than anywhere else, well, once again proves to the pilot fraternity you are an idiot.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
What a load of crap Aircraft!
Of course pilots will always move on, pilots move on from Qantas too you know, but if you make terms and conditions such that you reduce the percentage that move on, then surely both the company and the employees benefit!
Furthermore when a company starts to lose very experienced check and trainers, it is a sure fire sign that something is terribly wrong!
Of course pilots will always move on, pilots move on from Qantas too you know, but if you make terms and conditions such that you reduce the percentage that move on, then surely both the company and the employees benefit!
Furthermore when a company starts to lose very experienced check and trainers, it is a sure fire sign that something is terribly wrong!
KRUSTY 34 said:
Because the REXPC knew pay rises would have almost no affect on pilot retention. I did actually say that in my post - if you had read it properly you wouldn't have had to ask me this question.
Of course pay rises of around $100K will result in a much greater likelihood of pilots staying but we all know (or should know) that rises of that magnitude are impossible. I also believe that rises of $20K are just as impossible.
I have never made any comment on the merit, or otherwise, of retaining pilots, but as you have invited me to state the obvious:
Retaining pilots has merit.
landof4x said:
Asian people are equally as capable as Australian or any other people at achieving excellence as a pilot - you said so yourself in your final paragraph.
Aviation history has many examples of this captain's behaviour, but not all those examples involved asian pilots.
Howard Hughes said:
Rubbish. The movement is entirely related to the massive recruitment being undertaken by the major airlines.
Why were the REXPC being dishonest, when they were simply pointing out a possible course of action to retain experienced staff?
Of course pay rises of around $100K will result in a much greater likelihood of pilots staying but we all know (or should know) that rises of that magnitude are impossible. I also believe that rises of $20K are just as impossible.
If you truely believe that the retention of current pilots in this crisis has no merit ... If you believe that the retention of pilots has merit, then please feel free to share your thoughts on that also!
Retaining pilots has merit.
landof4x said:
Anyone who has trained/operated with Asian crews for a significant time will be able to instantly recognise you have not done so, and are pulling stuff out your *** again.
The recent 73 overrun might be a good starting point.
Howard Hughes said:
Furthermore when a company starts to lose very experienced check and trainers, it is a sure fire sign that something is terribly wrong!
Metrosexual
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Enroute
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft said:
Firstly, the current market makes it easy to leave and stay in the industry.
Secondly, for alot of very experienced check captains, moving from a company - at which you were once happy - to another, is alot of brain damage.
New type (with all the training and testing), new company, often a new basing, start at the bottom again etc etc.
For most, I would suggest that if things start looking and smelling like a ****e sandwich - time to move on.
Not to mention being responsible for signing off on the 'up and comers' i have mentioned on other posts.
Too much fukcing headache.
Rubbish. The movement is entirely related to the massive recruitment being undertaken by the major airlines.
Secondly, for alot of very experienced check captains, moving from a company - at which you were once happy - to another, is alot of brain damage.
New type (with all the training and testing), new company, often a new basing, start at the bottom again etc etc.
For most, I would suggest that if things start looking and smelling like a ****e sandwich - time to move on.
Not to mention being responsible for signing off on the 'up and comers' i have mentioned on other posts.
Too much fukcing headache.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: qld (if you couldn't work that out from my name!)
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviation history has many examples of this captain's behaviour, but not all those examples involved asian pilots.
Asian people are equally as capable as Australian or any other people at achieving excellence as a pilot - you said so yourself in your final paragraph.
I'll say it again, ARMCHAIR expert. Back to flight sim, sunshine.
landof4x said:
So come on, how does this accident suggest that asian people have "more of a problem with losing face than the rest of us"?
The recent 73 overrun might be a good starting point.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft, some cultures have ARE more prone to the losing face aspect issue in the work environment than others. Plently of studies on cross cultural CRM on this topic.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Having said that its equally dangerous to generalise based on cultural diversity.
Don't know if it applies to the abovementioned 73 overrun.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Having said that its equally dangerous to generalise based on cultural diversity.
Don't know if it applies to the abovementioned 73 overrun.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
1 Post
FACT: There are many senior REX Captains that wish(ed) to stay.
Why?? -- they accepted the reduced pay (conditions) for the lifestyle working in a regional afforded them.
This was until about 2-3 years ago, where most rosters involved 50-60 hours flying, many 2 sector days, 4 overnights and (some) appreciation from the Company.
What's changed?? -- the Companies view to the individual as a number to be worked as hard as possible. Rosters are always approx 80-90 hours stick time, 7-8 overnights and absolutely no appreciation from the top down.
Many are waking up to their old defense of
---
"Why would I work for DJ/JQ and get flogged, when I can stay here and have my family life, etc..."
---
holds no relevance as they are being flogged just as much, but for half the money. And to put up with keeping an eye on 700 hour CPL's, not that's it's their fault. In my day REX was a 3000-4000 hour job. And yes, I do believe that most 4000 hour pilots are more switched on than 700 hour CPL's.
That is all.
Why?? -- they accepted the reduced pay (conditions) for the lifestyle working in a regional afforded them.
This was until about 2-3 years ago, where most rosters involved 50-60 hours flying, many 2 sector days, 4 overnights and (some) appreciation from the Company.
What's changed?? -- the Companies view to the individual as a number to be worked as hard as possible. Rosters are always approx 80-90 hours stick time, 7-8 overnights and absolutely no appreciation from the top down.
Many are waking up to their old defense of
---
"Why would I work for DJ/JQ and get flogged, when I can stay here and have my family life, etc..."
---
holds no relevance as they are being flogged just as much, but for half the money. And to put up with keeping an eye on 700 hour CPL's, not that's it's their fault. In my day REX was a 3000-4000 hour job. And yes, I do believe that most 4000 hour pilots are more switched on than 700 hour CPL's.
That is all.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: qld (if you couldn't work that out from my name!)
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So come on, how does this accident suggest that asian people have "more of a problem with losing face than the rest of us"?
As Mr. Hat stated, many cross culture CRM studies have been conducted. They also notice problems with those of Western culture, such as getting restless with repetitive tasks, inability to do something the same way 100 times (ie trying their own way because there "must" be a better way to do this") and more likely to become slack between checks (ie flying differently when someone is watching).
Like I said before and I'll say again, go and do your research.
