Qantas CP unofficial comment on pilot shortage.
Metrosexual
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Gerry Harvey has PLENTY - What a tightar$e
I've got a better idea!
let's get our navy & merchant fleet, go out to the pacific islands and press-gang the locals into slavery!
That's cheaper than cheap labour!
What i'm saying is not politically correct - that admission makes that kind of statement alright.
Hey Gerry, if you want someone to clean out your stables - show them the money
Tightar$e.
let's get our navy & merchant fleet, go out to the pacific islands and press-gang the locals into slavery!
That's cheaper than cheap labour!
What i'm saying is not politically correct - that admission makes that kind of statement alright.
Hey Gerry, if you want someone to clean out your stables - show them the money
Tightar$e.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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QF's cancellation rate is climbing because of tired, clapped-out, old aeroplanes flogging around Australia, constantly breaking down. These old workhorses are begging for preventative maintenance as well as day to day repairs. 
SkyScanner Quote:
Watch this space... I've heard on good authority that QANTAS is actually down to the bare bones of it's arse to fill some upcoming intakes for the 400!!
The hold file is bare
We might even see some 400's parked through lack of crew as a direct result
Last time I checked, Qantas doesn't have a problem attracting staff
The hold file is bare
We might even see some 400's parked through lack of crew as a direct result
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Someone made the point earlier that it was just clever politics to draw attention to the fact that pilots arnt hanging on tree's anymore and it's about to get serious. I find it insulting that he (QF CP) now tries to jump on the band wagon to justify why he has not been able to deliver the pilot group. Looks like just another backflip which the pilot group has come accustomed to expect from this man.....
Quote from Flexible Response
"When I joined CX twenty-something years ago, I had an interview with the Director of Flight Operations. He told me that he just received a call from the Chief of Air Staff of the RAAF. The CAS had complained to the DFO about poaching of "his" pilots. I asked the DFO what reply he gave.
The DFO said, "I said to him that if you paid them what they are worth, then they wouldn't leave!" He then hung up.
...nothing has changed..."
Actually something has changed. The Cathay group has to my knowledge lost two pilots returning to the RAF, and one to the RAAF. They may be more.
The pilot shortage is hitting hard here in the Fragrant Harbour with lots of expat pilots expressing an interest in returning home, particluarly to Oz. This won't be helped by Cathay imposing a 3% pay rise on their pilots, the first for seven years.
"When I joined CX twenty-something years ago, I had an interview with the Director of Flight Operations. He told me that he just received a call from the Chief of Air Staff of the RAAF. The CAS had complained to the DFO about poaching of "his" pilots. I asked the DFO what reply he gave.
The DFO said, "I said to him that if you paid them what they are worth, then they wouldn't leave!" He then hung up.
...nothing has changed..."
Actually something has changed. The Cathay group has to my knowledge lost two pilots returning to the RAF, and one to the RAAF. They may be more.
The pilot shortage is hitting hard here in the Fragrant Harbour with lots of expat pilots expressing an interest in returning home, particluarly to Oz. This won't be helped by Cathay imposing a 3% pay rise on their pilots, the first for seven years.
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I had the minimums for QF 7 years ago. Since then I have flown all around the world in a few different types of jets. Why would I want to go to QF now to be a radio operator for a few years. I would also have to wait until all the instructors, scenic pilots and GA pilots with 500multi to be upgraded before I could. I think that seniority may have seen its day. Bring on sideways movements. If you don’t like the idea of this now think about it a bit more, its not going to slow down upgrade times by much if most companies do it. Do you want to work for the same carrier for 30+ years in this day and age. I don’t think so but its so hard to move knowing you will go straight to the bottom every time? So is QF a good job? It would have been for me 4-7 years ago but now……… NO WAY, not as it stands right now! So lets face it the window for a lot of pilots of getting into QF is about 5 years. After that you are probably flying jets already and don’t want such a big demotion just to fly for QF. The pilot market for QF is not as big as many would think. I don’t know why anyone would leave a command or even FO positions from overseas, VB or even Skywest to be a QF SO.
Fix up the antiquated seniority system
Improve terms and conditions of employment
Dump the payment for ratings
Increase salaries
Result
Experienced crews from overseas will come home and slot in Aussie airlines without going backwards in all the above mentioned areas
Make being a pilot a better proposition and investment to wannabe’s
Increase the amount of pilots in the pools for operators to employ from
Its an easy fix to a problem you created for yourself.
Fix up the antiquated seniority system
Improve terms and conditions of employment
Dump the payment for ratings
Increase salaries
Result
Experienced crews from overseas will come home and slot in Aussie airlines without going backwards in all the above mentioned areas
Make being a pilot a better proposition and investment to wannabe’s
Increase the amount of pilots in the pools for operators to employ from
Its an easy fix to a problem you created for yourself.
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The clapped out airlines I have worked for have been professional training organisations; you go there get experience and move on to something better, I never thought it would still be happening in the “majors” if you can call the LCCs that 
And the one ONLY good thing about paying for an endorsement is ITS YOURS! no bond, and when you find a better job you can just leave, and management is left scratching there head. why don't LCC provide training and then bond pilots, its one way to keep them.
And the one ONLY good thing about paying for an endorsement is ITS YOURS! no bond, and when you find a better job you can just leave, and management is left scratching there head. why don't LCC provide training and then bond pilots, its one way to keep them.
I had the minimums for QF 7 years ago. Since then I have flown all around the world in a few different types of jets. Why would I want to go to QF now to be a radio operator for a few years
If you had joined QF 7 years ago, you would have...
flown all around the world in a few different types of jets, and
had a window seat several years ago from which to enjoy the view!
One of those lowly instructors, scenic pilots and GA pilots with 500multi would be operating the radio for you!
The pilot market for QF is not as big as many would think. I don’t know why anyone would leave a command or even FO positions from overseas, VB or even Skywest to be a QF SO.
Fix up the antiquated seniority system
Improve terms and conditions of employment
Dump the payment for ratings
Increase salaries
Improve terms and conditions of employment
Dump the payment for ratings
Increase salaries
Why? Any QF SO has to meet a standard that enables them to change seats when the position becomes available. QF does have a very archaic rostering system though, that is entirely seniority based. It has vast problems and costs QF millions extra $ each year. Making it a little more fair would stem some of the outflow of crew or least some discontent.
QF do not yet charge for endorsements in the mainline operation either
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I have been wanting to return to Australia for years and there has never been a better time. The low salaries and everything mentioned above is a huge turnoff. I fly A320 LHS, and frankly very shy about giving it up.
Then again, if I don't take the chance I'll never know, if I wanted to live in the uk forever, well I would, but hardly think so. Sick of the poms, the crappy weather, and the warm beer. Bring me back to oz, I'm in. Its a lifestyle move!!
Trust me, I'll prob never ern the bucks I'm on now, but then again, I'm not enjoying sydney harbour on my off days am I? Its all about lifestyle.
Sit on the jumpseat for a few years of a big thing with a rat on the tail? Laugh at the guys taking themselves very seriously in the RHS, whilst chatting up the Aussie chicks bringing me in tea!! bring it on!!
To be honest, I think things will come good, it can't go on like this! My plan is just to get home! After that, who knows.
Only problem is Jetstar? VB? QF? Long term, I'm probably young enough for QF, ie 30 ish. Does anyone have salary details for QF yr 1?? all in?? same for Jetstar?
Cheers.. TT6000, A320 cp, soon to be QF SO!!
Then again, if I don't take the chance I'll never know, if I wanted to live in the uk forever, well I would, but hardly think so. Sick of the poms, the crappy weather, and the warm beer. Bring me back to oz, I'm in. Its a lifestyle move!!
Trust me, I'll prob never ern the bucks I'm on now, but then again, I'm not enjoying sydney harbour on my off days am I? Its all about lifestyle.
Sit on the jumpseat for a few years of a big thing with a rat on the tail? Laugh at the guys taking themselves very seriously in the RHS, whilst chatting up the Aussie chicks bringing me in tea!! bring it on!!
To be honest, I think things will come good, it can't go on like this! My plan is just to get home! After that, who knows.
Only problem is Jetstar? VB? QF? Long term, I'm probably young enough for QF, ie 30 ish. Does anyone have salary details for QF yr 1?? all in?? same for Jetstar?
Cheers.. TT6000, A320 cp, soon to be QF SO!!
Guys are coming to QF but leaving on unprecedented numbers
And the oft-heard argument of "the 5 year LWOP guys aint coming back" is yet again just slip port dribble.
M
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the jumpseat for a few years of a big thing with a rat on the tail...whilst chatting up the Aussie chicks bringing me in tea!!
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The seniority statistic is a once a year update.
July 1 saw unprecedented super changes....The amount of retirements/resignations being dropped on the desk can be hidden until July next year...
The are plenty of guys on LSL of varying duration who will not be back, including the former DCP!! These guys show as on the books until retirement.
It isn't just Captains leaving..Then again believe what Mannering says, after all he has no reason other than to tell it as it is......
July 1 saw unprecedented super changes....The amount of retirements/resignations being dropped on the desk can be hidden until July next year...
The are plenty of guys on LSL of varying duration who will not be back, including the former DCP!! These guys show as on the books until retirement.
It isn't just Captains leaving..Then again believe what Mannering says, after all he has no reason other than to tell it as it is......
Grandpa Aerotart
Is it just me who finds Gerry Harvey's words disconcerting...distastefull even...and all to typical of modern management mentality?
Real wages have been going backwards for 35 odd yrs...but not backwards enough for Millionaire and Billionaire business owners/managers.
If you ever needed more proof that we indeed live in an economy not a society there it is...the concept that low unemployment is bad because it reduces competition for available jobs and drives up wages. That people actually getting payrises that, at least, keep abreast of real inflation is a bad thing. That poor Gerry can't make a few more billion before he shuffles off his mortal coil because he can't employ asian labour at 1/2 the rate of local labour.
I used to wonder why sucessive Australian Govts maintained immigration while unemployment rates were 5, 6 or more % while simultaneously bleating to the electorate how reducing unemployment was their 'top' priority.
The reality is that their (Govt and business) idea of nirvana is levels of unemployment at high enough levels so that employers can continue to say "If you don't like it leave...there are 20 more who want your job".
You'd almost have to assume the big reason for Govt lack of interest in the aviation industry over the years was because they already figured it was near perfect...10 applicants for every job.
You'd have to assume the feckwit understands the law of supply and demand...as do they all...they just REALLY cannot stand the thought of it not working in their favour but someone elses...it actually upsets him enough to go to the media and have a whinge...what amazing contempt.
Real wages have been going backwards for 35 odd yrs...but not backwards enough for Millionaire and Billionaire business owners/managers.
If you ever needed more proof that we indeed live in an economy not a society there it is...the concept that low unemployment is bad because it reduces competition for available jobs and drives up wages. That people actually getting payrises that, at least, keep abreast of real inflation is a bad thing. That poor Gerry can't make a few more billion before he shuffles off his mortal coil because he can't employ asian labour at 1/2 the rate of local labour.
I used to wonder why sucessive Australian Govts maintained immigration while unemployment rates were 5, 6 or more % while simultaneously bleating to the electorate how reducing unemployment was their 'top' priority.
The reality is that their (Govt and business) idea of nirvana is levels of unemployment at high enough levels so that employers can continue to say "If you don't like it leave...there are 20 more who want your job".
You'd almost have to assume the big reason for Govt lack of interest in the aviation industry over the years was because they already figured it was near perfect...10 applicants for every job.
"I've got horse studs and it's difficult to get staff.
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mmmbop: I've got no idea what you mean by "seniority number movement". Lack of change of it? Your number, in particular? If you're half way up the list you're probably not seeing much change since it's guys below you doing the walking. Mate, this is just semantics anyway: the facts are, in my 15 years at the Rat, 2007 has seen the highest number of juniorish F/Os up and leave (via resignation or LWOP). A number of S/Os have bailed too - some even returning to the RAAF. Not enough to shut the joint down, but it is concerning management. DCP KI told a group of us at a recent meeting, mate! And don't kid yourself - it's a 50:50 whether those on LWOP will return. Add to this retirements at the top end (yes, many are sitting on the books, eating up LSL AL, etc, totally non-productive yet still holding a seniority number) and QF is suddenly scrabbling for replacements.... If you are sitting in a position where you can take advantage of all this, then just have patience.
Chimbu Chuckles: Yes, I actually took my business to somewhere other than Harvey Norman yesterday after reading that crap from poor old Gerry. What a tosser, and that's being polite. What a prime example of how too many wealthy people have nothing but contempt for labour in Australia. Gerry Harvey would rather see the average standard of living in Australia driven downwards so that he can make more profit. Fcuk everybody else, just as long as I'm ok, is Gerry's mantra. Gerry - you can't get/retain staff for your multiple horse studs because obviously you're a tight a$$. If I ever achieve just a single horse stud, I hope I'll continue to believe in fair day's pay for fair day's work. Then again, maybe all that time around horse sh!t affects the brain somehow....
The parallels between poor ol' Gerry's troubles and those of Aust airline management are uncanny. Whether we are talking about inviting cheap Indian labourers downunder to shovel Gerry's sh!t for $1 a day, or whether doing recruitment drives for Ukrainian pilots - it's the same story. It's been said before, but once again: reap what you sow.
Chimbu Chuckles: Yes, I actually took my business to somewhere other than Harvey Norman yesterday after reading that crap from poor old Gerry. What a tosser, and that's being polite. What a prime example of how too many wealthy people have nothing but contempt for labour in Australia. Gerry Harvey would rather see the average standard of living in Australia driven downwards so that he can make more profit. Fcuk everybody else, just as long as I'm ok, is Gerry's mantra. Gerry - you can't get/retain staff for your multiple horse studs because obviously you're a tight a$$. If I ever achieve just a single horse stud, I hope I'll continue to believe in fair day's pay for fair day's work. Then again, maybe all that time around horse sh!t affects the brain somehow....
The parallels between poor ol' Gerry's troubles and those of Aust airline management are uncanny. Whether we are talking about inviting cheap Indian labourers downunder to shovel Gerry's sh!t for $1 a day, or whether doing recruitment drives for Ukrainian pilots - it's the same story. It's been said before, but once again: reap what you sow.
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TT6000, A320 cp, soon to be QF SO!!
6000, big deal, that is about half of what most of
the guys taking themselves very seriously in the RHS
Chimbu.............no, you're not alone. I also found Harvey's words distasteful from the perspective that his statement:
seemed to convey to me that what he was actually saying was:
What a tosser.
I've got horse studs and it's difficult to get staff
It's bloody hard to get people to get people to shovel sh1t if you're only prepared to pay them sh1t
Metrosexual
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Thread drift
Chimbu et al, see my previous post.
Big and medium business has been make ****eloads of money in this country - all with the uncompetitve wage levels that we 'expect' . So, how much profit do these guys really want to make? Work'choices' has not yet been enough to keep wages down as was the original plan, and now in some fields, business has to start forking out for their labour.
The free market economy and market forces are pointed to when it means that workers get their jobs, t's& c's, price of food, fuel etc pulled out of their ar$es, but when it swings the other way, and workers actually are in some sort of demand, well, it hurts these prikcs just a little too much.
As an aside, foreign guest workers could prove really useful on another front. It will give the tabloids fodder for sales and the talkback radio twats (and their callers) when they report of the 'increase in crime', their congregating into 'ghettos' and not 'assimilating', and not accepting the 'aussie way'.
Finally, if Gerry wants someone to clean out his stables, and the mines in WA are paying $130,000pa for a worker, then Gerry had better shell out $130,001 - or, pick up the shovel or, get rid of the horses.
Big and medium business has been make ****eloads of money in this country - all with the uncompetitve wage levels that we 'expect' . So, how much profit do these guys really want to make? Work'choices'
has not yet been enough to keep wages down as was the original plan, and now in some fields, business has to start forking out for their labour.The free market economy and market forces are pointed to when it means that workers get their jobs, t's& c's, price of food, fuel etc pulled out of their ar$es, but when it swings the other way, and workers actually are in some sort of demand, well, it hurts these prikcs just a little too much.
As an aside, foreign guest workers could prove really useful on another front. It will give the tabloids fodder for sales and the talkback radio twats (and their callers) when they report of the 'increase in crime', their congregating into 'ghettos' and not 'assimilating', and not accepting the 'aussie way'.
Finally, if Gerry wants someone to clean out his stables, and the mines in WA are paying $130,000pa for a worker, then Gerry had better shell out $130,001 - or, pick up the shovel or, get rid of the horses.
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QF Demographics
When I joined QF all those aeons ago, one enterprising chap placed a computer generated list in my pigeon hole that showed me where I would be on the seniority list in future years.
At that time the retiring age was 55 with an extension possible to 58. Most guys would retire at 55 wth a few extending
Over the years, with the introduction of age 60 retirement, the -400 pay rates, then the Pref bidding system which made it financially advantageous to be super senior, then the retiring age going over 60, this little list of mine became a bit of a hollow joke... I was soon many numbers lower on the list that it predicted.
I lost that list for a while till I came upon it last week. I re-read it for nostalgia sake, then I noticed something interesting. My current seniority number is about three years out of where the list predicts I should be, which makes a lot of sense considering the original predicted where I would be if everyone retired three years earlier than they currently do.
What is more interesting is that this list, interpreted now for the three year discrepancy, points to 2008 on as the time that I finally start making up some ground. Up till now, the average retirement numbers per year have been 15 p.a. This list shows a doubling of that number for the next few years to 30 p.a.
With the changes in the super rules making going past 60, financially at least, a silly thing to do; it gives hope to those of us still way down there that real movement is about to occur. When you consider that one -400 captain retiring, generates nines promotional slots plus X number of new entries, you can see why the CP is worried.
Good news for all current QF pilots and those wanting to join.
At that time the retiring age was 55 with an extension possible to 58. Most guys would retire at 55 wth a few extending
Over the years, with the introduction of age 60 retirement, the -400 pay rates, then the Pref bidding system which made it financially advantageous to be super senior, then the retiring age going over 60, this little list of mine became a bit of a hollow joke... I was soon many numbers lower on the list that it predicted.
I lost that list for a while till I came upon it last week. I re-read it for nostalgia sake, then I noticed something interesting. My current seniority number is about three years out of where the list predicts I should be, which makes a lot of sense considering the original predicted where I would be if everyone retired three years earlier than they currently do.
What is more interesting is that this list, interpreted now for the three year discrepancy, points to 2008 on as the time that I finally start making up some ground. Up till now, the average retirement numbers per year have been 15 p.a. This list shows a doubling of that number for the next few years to 30 p.a.
With the changes in the super rules making going past 60, financially at least, a silly thing to do; it gives hope to those of us still way down there that real movement is about to occur. When you consider that one -400 captain retiring, generates nines promotional slots plus X number of new entries, you can see why the CP is worried.
Good news for all current QF pilots and those wanting to join.