Want the JOB but will not pay 35k for it?

[Night Flight]

Jetstar/Virgin Blue/Tiger etc. I want the job but I refuse to pay for an endorsement! I see it as a conscience issue!

3500TT, 1000Turbine +1000ME/Command etc. etc.

What are my chances? Any comments? Anyone got an invite for an interview without ticking the "Yes I'll Pay" box?

And are there really enough of us out there taking a stand for this to really change? (Or am I just stubborn AND stupid!)

Regds,

NF

[RUMBEAR]

Good on ya NF. I'm with you. I have around 8000hrs, about 5000 turbine, including 2 types above 5700kg. I made the decision some time ago, while it would be nice to sit up the front of a B737 or A320, if it never happens because of the choices I have made then I wont have any regrets. To be honest flying medium sized turbo props isnt much different to jets (I guess?), theres just less pax behind you and the pay packet may be a little less (depending where you choose to work).
Lifestyle is better though.

There is only one reason companys charge for training these days anyway "BECAUSE THEY CAN".

Cheers

[Launchpad McQuack]

And are there really enough of us out there taking a stand for this to really change?

Count me in.

I've decided I'm not paying for an endorsement, and I'm not that keen on salary-sacrifice either. If enough people take a stand, surely it will produce the desired result? I know of several other drivers who are taking this stance as well.

LP

[Keg]

The important part is to ensure that the airlines know that you're taking the stand.

[saabsforever]

As a matter of principle its a great stand. I refused to pay for a rating when I should have got on with it and am still flying a Saab. Low time FOs on the Saab moved on and are now Jet Captains earning good money (In Europe), and the rating is long paid for. As an economic decision consider getting on a jet and seniority for Command, not much money in Props and most major Airlines only count Jet time. You cannot change the world and many of the 'do not pay for a type rating brigade' have motives, like reducing the competition. Bottom line i say-Stubborn and Stupid- like me

[Launchpad McQuack]

ensure that the airlines know

Agreed, but do you think they'd take us seriously Keg? I doubt it, not until the holding pool has dried up....and even then we have to contend with those individuals who will take advantage of the opportunity to advance their own careers faster with no regard for their colleagues...

This is one thread I'd like to see the majority support, it'd be good to know we're not the minority.

LP

[Launchpad McQuack]

I should have got on with it and am still flying a Saab

Yeah but saabsforever, who cares about jets when you OWN a 185?!

We could stop paying for endorsements and taking salary-sacrifices if we stuck together, but Pilots as a group don't appear to be very good at supporting each other as a majority, especially where career progression is involved. I may yet have to settle for salary-sacrifice

LP

When I've owned a 185 or A36 I will die in peace.....

[Mr. Hat]

NF - with the way things are going the pay for endo or salary sacrifice thing will go as recruiting continues. Just depends on how long you are willing to wait.

["V"]

G'day lads,

I'm a huge believer in the idea of not paying for endorsements as a requirement of entry to an airline such as VB/JQ etc.

I'm relatively low time, 1200 TT flying twin diamonds for a survey company and get looked after very well here. Even when the time comes i still refuse to fork out 30k for a 737/A320 endorsement purely on principle. I know alot of blokes who are in my same situation who hold the same beliefs. Not to worry i think guys, if this becomes an industry standard maybe the airlines will open their pockets....................................................i 'll be long gone before that happens though!!!

[Night Flight]

MR. Hat,
I know its only a matter of time but I've gotta say I've taken a stand for a while and its getting harder and harder as I'm only getting older, friends and colleagues everywhere are getting "Jet Jobs" and a lot of them are younger and with a lot less experience!
And as Saabsforever said I could just bite the bullet and be a Jet Captain in a few years.

At this stage I'm willing to wait a little longer and I hoper there are enough of us to bring the change around sooner rather than later... but I'm sure I'm not the only one, right?

NF

[Fred Gassit]

Be very confident thats the line you wanna take, because I did the same and nearly every jet operator here locally has called and then passed.

My stubbornness has cost me dearly and I would hate to see someone who really wanted that jet job miss out for taking the same principled approach.

[404 Titan]

Night Flight

Mate you're only 27. You still have time on your side. I was 33 when I got my first jet job. I didn't have to fork out any dosh for the endorsement and I was on full wages from day one of training ie no half salary.

[Centaurus]

My stubbornness has cost me dearly and I would hate to see someone who really wanted that jet job miss out for taking the same principled approach

The aviation industry in Australia has no shortage of principled unemployed pilots.

[drdexter1975]

Why shouldnt you expect to pay for your own endorsement on a type that will directly increase your pay and employment prospects?

You guys that expect your employer to pay are dinosaurs! Only a matter of time b4 you are extinct!

[404 Titan]

drdexter1975

Maybe it is you that is the dinosaur? If you had done some research you would know that the number of airlines around the world that charge pilots for endorsement training has infact reduced over the last two years and that in many countries it is illegal to charge employees for training and/or bond them. A few countries to the north of Australia come to mind.

[astroboy55]

Charging for endorsements is rubbish. So is salary sacrifice. IMHO any employer that employs you, employs you for the skills/training that you currently have. If extra skills/training are required for your role, then your employer should be responsible for providing that training, not making you pay for it. However, i cant say that i dont agree with bonding. If you are lucky enough to get into a position that provides your training but bonds you, then i dont see any harm in them expecting a reasonable return of service.

[Aussie]

I was in Aus earlier this year, and they wanted me to pay for standardisation to instruct at a particular school... I said no.

Just got a gig on an Embraer 170 in Europe, no TR costs, and just a bond, which i think is fair enough!

Look outside the square, if the square doesnt offer your what ya after!

Aussie

[haughtney1]

Guys..stick to your guns...I suppose its easier said than done, but as aussie says, mayby you need to look elsewhere

[Aquaplaner]

Have you tried QANTAS, Cathay, Skywest or Alliance? They and many other operators around the world do not charge for the endorsement. Don’t live in hope and that Jetstar, Tiger and Virgin are going to drop the pay for your own endorsement thing. You are only setting yourself up for disappointment.
Do a search on these forums for companies that don’t make you pay for a job (I’m sure there has been threads on this topic before) make a list and work on them. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. If in the meantime any of the above companies drop the endorsement charge then add them to the list.

[Stick Pusher]

Skywest don't charge for endorsements and have a very high retention rate. I also hear they are after quite a few drivers! (but who isn't right now! )



SP