Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Asic - The Great Con Job

Old 16th Aug 2007, 10:19
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Asic - The Great Con Job

AUSTRALIAN ASIC - The Big Con Job
Well, I totally agree with Transport Security, however the ASIC is one of the greatest con jobs bestowed upon the Australian Aviation Industry EVER!

Division 3.2, subsection 3.05 of the Transport Security Regulations 2005 EXEMPT and I mean EXEMPT the crew of FOREIGN AIRLINES from having an Australian issued ASIC!

NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...NO ASIO CLEARANCE...NO AFP CHECK...NO CRIMMINAL HISTORY...HA..HA..HA

They like everybody else in the Aviation World (except Australia)only have to display a COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD.

Well mateys.....these airlines (foreign) carried more than 20 million passengers IN/OUT of Australia LAST YEAR!!!!!! and in BIG PLANES.

Write to your Federal Member of Parliament and get the Regs changed....why do we have to put up with this crap in Australia....if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD....NO MORE WANK ASIC'S....THATS THE WAY IT IS ALL OVER THE WORLD...

Just like the new regs for alcohol/drugs testing....act now or forever be bloody silent!
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Old 16th Aug 2007, 10:33
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EMU787: In Cathay we are issued a company ID card but it's only "in house" company use.
For airside use we are issued an "ICAO" card by the HK CAD (civil aviation dept)
A pretty average looking thing but not issued by CX
To my mind a proper Aussie style, official looking ASIC is a good idea.
if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD.
QF, ( including QLINK ) VB, etc already issue their own don't they?

What about GA private pilots that don't have a "company" to issue theirs?
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Old 16th Aug 2007, 11:44
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Company ID will be same format

The company ID will be of a prescribed format ie.same as the current ASIC and it will be worn and produced as prescribed......

the point is if its good enough for the goose then its good enough for the gander and will not cost $190 and will be valid as long as you are employed.....a far safer and cost effective model than five government departments running around trying to administer an idea somebody dreamt up but did not think about it.....

dont forget....foreign pilots and cabin crew are flying 20 million pax in and out of Australia every year......NO ASIC...NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...........so whats the bloody point!

As for ACMS.....99% of the worlds aviation use and accept company issued ID cards!

As for Airport Staff...the same goes.....its up to the company to administer as per the prescribed regulations.

I will stand by my comment....its just another bloody government con job!
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Old 16th Aug 2007, 15:12
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How about Australia insist on issuing ASIC Cards for all foreign aircrew that operate into Australia?

And then the USA can issue their equivalent card for entry into the States. And the UK can do the same, and so on?

Each aircrew person could accumulate as many cards as necessary for each of the foreign countries into which they operate, and merely change to the appropriate card on arrival?

Everyone would be happy and security would be most certainly assurred.

There is absolutely no way a terrorist could defeat such a wonderful system?
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Old 16th Aug 2007, 16:09
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Now that's what I call a "flexible response"
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Old 16th Aug 2007, 17:32
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$$$$$$$$ Asic $$$$$$$$

Thank you for your replies....don't forget about the COST mateys....over a ten year period without inflation the industry who did not ask for this impost will fork out more than $50 Million....why....why.....if its so important then I will say again why don't foreign crew need one ?????? carting more than 20 million passengers each year.

$50 million dollars could be spent on SAFETY !!! I bet I could do the same type of card in the same prescribed format for under $10....thats a saving to the DOMESTIC aviation industry of about $48 Million dollars over 10 years......the greatest con ever but I am sure there is more coming!
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 01:53
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EMU787: mate the overseas operators have cards approved by ICAO. Issuing states have an obligation to carry out background security checks before issuing said cards.
Australia is no different in issuing it's ASIC, it's recognized by ICAO and valid around the world when used in the course of your employment.

ok
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 02:33
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I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
 
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Does anyone recall if CASA issued instructions to return the card upon expiry or if no longer needed? I can't remember if there were instructions on the application or with the card when it arrived.

It is certainly a legislated requirement though under ATSRs.
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 06:38
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Islander
Just reading the card that came with my new ASIC from Aviation ID Aust.
states, "you must return your ASIC to Av ID Aust if:
your ASIC has Expired
you are notified your ASIC has been cancelled
it has been defaced
you no longer need it"

Guess that answers the question I asked on another thread.
s'ppose I'm like all blokes, If all else fails,read the instructions

Frothy
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 07:09
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I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
 
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Thanks Frothy,
I couldn't remember getting anything with my card from CASA but I'm sure that being as efficient as they are they would have sent a similar notice.

I've actually had it put on the back of the cards we are issuing from now on.
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 07:51
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The price of freedom!

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Old 17th Aug 2007, 07:53
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My ASIC expired in May. So I puts it in an envelope and I sends it back to CASA. Dunno if they even got it...
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 14:53
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Company issued


ACMS.....you obviously have been led up the same garden path as all the other pilots in Australia....believing something that is not actually happening.

I am sure the necessary crew checks and measures are conducted in every airline and country throughout the world...........not likely mate.

and of course ICAO is a complete success.....not only with security but also airport standards, operator standards, maintenance standards......on and on we could go.

I fly internationally with just a company issued photo ID card mate and its accepted at all airports accross the world on a daily basis....god knows what spoonfed organisation you come from.....but then again you are one of the "believers"

Right now Iam in Europe...airside...with my COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD!!
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Old 17th Aug 2007, 23:39
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Kookabat CASA will only accept that expired ASIC for $130. Thats made up of $120 to open the envelope and $10 to chop the asic up with a shredder.
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Old 19th Aug 2007, 12:11
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EMU787:........
god knows what spoonfed organisation you come from.....but then again you are one of the "believers"
yes I work for a really backward "spoonfed operation" called CX. ( if you'd bothered to read my posts you'd know that already )
Mate settle down, if your company ID card is accepted by all airports around the world it must be an approved one. I know for a fact that the one I wear in CX is approved by all the airports we fly into and I must display it whilst in the course of my duty. SIMPLE REALLY.
It's no different to other areas in Aviation. If Thai fly into Australia they are approved to do so by CASA, who have done the required checks on their operation ( engineering, flt crew, ID cards etc ) and that they comply with all the ICAO requirements.

The ID card is just one small part of the picture.

I would imagine that CASA do a thorough check of all airlines flying into Australia. And they conduct random RAMP CHECKS.
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Old 19th Aug 2007, 17:33
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ASIC...the great con and ripoff

QUOTE ACMS:"I would imagine that CASA do a thorough check of all airlines flying into Australia. And they conduct random RAMP CHECKS......."

well old mate exactly you said.... "I would imagine that CASA do a thorough check..." you have chosen a very good selection of words.....do you really think CASA closely monitor the crew security background checking of every airline carrying the 20 million plus passengers IN/OUT of Australia. Do you really think that. You might want to believe that but mate its not a reality.

CASA cant even get their act together to process their own ASIC renewals...they just don't have the budget or staff....mate you live in a bloody fantasy land.

ACMS, under the aviation Chicago Convention of 1948 each and every contracting State just looks after its own backyard and they DO NOT go snooping around all the in-bound airlines paperwork etc....that would take a staff of a 1000 and anyhow they would be just shown bullsh..t paperwork and would upset many foreign Airlines management....who do you think CASA are....some GOD LIKE creature with powers to transgress international boundaries.

These are the people mate that were closely monitoring the safety standards and of course the ID cards integrity of GARUDA while they carried hundreds of thousands of OZ passengers in apparent total flight safety !!!! I suggest you put your hand back on the proper stick.

You mention Thai...its all in the Thai language for christ sake !!!

As for my company issued photo ID card....it is not an ICAO card with the little lines in the background but IS accepted wherever I go....all over the world mate....maybe at your CX induction course the security people just wanted to make you feel all warm and cosy.

Lets get back to the original thread....IF WE ARE LICENCED TO OPERATE AEROPLANES AND CHOOSE THE CREW WE WANT AND CARRY PASSENGERS WHEREVER THEN WE SHOULD BE BLOODY WELL APPROVED TO DO OUR OWN ASSESSMENT OF THE SUITABILITY OF OUR OWN STAFF....NOT FIVE LOOSELY CONTROLLED AND UNLINKED GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS ripping us off for $190 every second year.

CASA, I believe have a lawful DUTY to monitor pilots as they progress through the years, they can do this quietly behind the scenes with State and Federal police forces...its their job as the regulator.... but for us to sit down and fill out crap pages of information every two years, get stuffed around like you would not believe and then get ripped off for $190 for a 50 cent card is down right disgraceful and need parliament intervention NOW.

So ACMS I suppose you don't have to worry really as I am sure CX pay for all your cards anyhow....$190 buys school books and shoes mate !!!
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Old 19th Aug 2007, 22:59
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Geez emu. Getting a bit heated there aren't you mate?
We're all frustrated by the inconsistencies with aviation security but no need to take it out on other posters here because they have a different perspective on the overall picture to yourself.
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Old 20th Aug 2007, 07:26
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I have been a licensed pilot since 1987 and a CPL since 1996. If I was going to fly my Cessna/Piper/Boeing/Airbus whatever into a building you would think I would have done it by now? Why am I now suddenly considered a threat after years of government scrutiny? It is not like I have just arrived here?

Stupidity in the extreme is the ASIC system.

We have no choice but to comply but we all have a duty to resist!

Z.
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Old 20th Aug 2007, 17:55
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Zhaadum, Well done!!! The real perspective of the whole mess.
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Old 20th Aug 2007, 18:20
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Without stating the obvious...Emu, you are an idiot, get off your high horse/kangaroo/emu or whatever, and take a chill pill buddy.
Every ICAO signatory country is required to provide aircrew with the relevant ID......but I suspect you knew this already.

don't forget....foreign pilots and cabin crew are flying 20 million pax in and out of Australia every year......NO ASIC...NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...........so whats the bloody point!
Sounds more like a typical xenophobic argument parceled up to suit your own pathetic agenda.
You need to get out more mate
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