Asic - The Great Con Job
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I recently went to send back my ASIC after changing jobs. After sending an email to them asking what address I send it to they forwarded the correct address and answered one of my other questions that I was unsure of. Yes thay stated, "We will send you $50 back upon return of ASIC".
Sent card - surprise, surprise - no money.
If they were serious about all this security bullsh*t they would surely try to ensure all loose ASIC cards were collected and supply the incentive for people to comply.
my two cents
Sent card - surprise, surprise - no money.
If they were serious about all this security bullsh*t they would surely try to ensure all loose ASIC cards were collected and supply the incentive for people to comply.
my two cents
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...............reading all the posts here for & against the ASIC system shows one single thing.............terrorism is alive & well..................don't let the basta..s win, stick with what ever the rule makers see fit (despite it's short comings) & defeat the enemy on the ground, well before they again have fear running rife !
We in the civilised world are at war whether we like it or not & aviation is such a powerful 'tool' for the enemy to abuse. Lets use aviation for what it was originally envisaged advanced for, quick safe efficient transport. Fly safe all & fear nothing for we are strong in our resolve to make flying safe & enjoyable.
Capt Wally :-)
We in the civilised world are at war whether we like it or not & aviation is such a powerful 'tool' for the enemy to abuse. Lets use aviation for what it was originally envisaged advanced for, quick safe efficient transport. Fly safe all & fear nothing for we are strong in our resolve to make flying safe & enjoyable.
Capt Wally :-)
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Asic - The Con job
Thanks for that Capt Wally....I thought I was listening to a George W Bush State of the Union address.....mate its a con job and you have been conned.
21 million people were carted in and out of Australia last year by foreign crew THAT DO NOT HAVE AN ASIC!!!! THEY ONLY HAVE A COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD that is valid everywhere else in the world and that includes Australia......DOTARS TSA regulation 3.5 company issued card is OK for foreign crew!
The ONLY people who require an ASIC and have to go through this stupid check every two years at our expense are Australian Domestic pilots......why Wally....please tell me why.
Well...why?.....I will tell you why....its a bureaucratic con job at its best.
21 million people were carted in and out of Australia last year by foreign crew THAT DO NOT HAVE AN ASIC!!!! THEY ONLY HAVE A COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD that is valid everywhere else in the world and that includes Australia......DOTARS TSA regulation 3.5 company issued card is OK for foreign crew!
The ONLY people who require an ASIC and have to go through this stupid check every two years at our expense are Australian Domestic pilots......why Wally....please tell me why.
Well...why?.....I will tell you why....its a bureaucratic con job at its best.
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enough is enough
Well Wally, I agree that safety is at the top of the tree BUT in a civilised world there is a system called streamlining. That is to say AGAIN why does every government body seem to think that its security system is better than the others. I have no problem with a security system but it should be ONE that covers everything.i.e flash one card to the security people wether that is entering a school yard, hospital, asio head office or airport.I SAY AGAIN ONE POLICE CHECK, ONE CHEQUE AND ONE CARD FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!. And yes if it is used for aviation it should be ICAO approved as well.
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Good on you Murlow. ENOUGH IS A BLOODY ENOUGH. And it is about time every one see it for what it is, the greatest con job in Australian aviation at the present time. But as for ICAO what a waste of resources. Europe, America, Japan and so on cannot agree that aircraft fly the same no matter where in the world. AVIATION WHAT A MESS!
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Asic - the greatest con job in aviation history
thanks "sumhorizon" you have seen the light...pity you are few and far between....the OZ aviation industry are nothing but a simple flock of sheep...
Write a letter to your Federal member and copy it to Rudds office pointing out that foreign crew cart more than 20 million passengers last year into and out of Australia and they are only required to be in uniform and display a COMPANY issued ID card when in a SECURE STERILE AREA!!!
Not us...we have to have an ASIC and pay for it.
This will do two things hopefully.....ALL will have to have ASIC checks etc which will cause utter chaos overseas (won't happen) or they will scrap it for the international standard of a company issued card for domestic pilots.
We have been conned and I bet more deception is on the way!
Write a letter to your Federal member and copy it to Rudds office pointing out that foreign crew cart more than 20 million passengers last year into and out of Australia and they are only required to be in uniform and display a COMPANY issued ID card when in a SECURE STERILE AREA!!!
Not us...we have to have an ASIC and pay for it.
This will do two things hopefully.....ALL will have to have ASIC checks etc which will cause utter chaos overseas (won't happen) or they will scrap it for the international standard of a company issued card for domestic pilots.
We have been conned and I bet more deception is on the way!
I was recently talking about this to a mate of mine (who I know gets a bit worked up at times), and he made a good point. It went a bit like this...
Does anyone recall the mass murders at Port Arthur?
That was also a tragic, horrible event - much like Sept 11.
That also provoked a Government knee jerk reaction.
That reaction (the gun buy-back) was sold to the public ''in the interest of public safety"
That was also a very expensive initiative.
Here's the difference - the gun buy-back was funded from the public purse.
Not gun clubs, not firearms dealers, not licence holders for firearms,
THE GENERAL PUBLIC - IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC SAFETY.
So why has the aviation industry alone and in isolation been forced to bear the cost of this rubbish?
Even if it was effective, even if it was efficient - the cost is still a bunch of bullsh#t, and should be on the public in general.
Well I can't really see a problem with that logic. The similarity is actually pretty bloody good.
And reading this thread, EMU and MURLOW (and others) - well I've got to agree with you guys. It is a deadset con, an absolute joke, and anyone involved with creating/proposing/approving it (I hope you're reading this) you should be UTTERLY EMBARRASED.
I repeat - UTTERLY EMBARRASED.
Do us all a favour - take the rest of your life off, you bunch of - can't even think of a strong enough word... You should all be lined up and SHOT THROUGH THE HEAD.
CR.
Does anyone recall the mass murders at Port Arthur?
That was also a tragic, horrible event - much like Sept 11.
That also provoked a Government knee jerk reaction.
That reaction (the gun buy-back) was sold to the public ''in the interest of public safety"
That was also a very expensive initiative.
Here's the difference - the gun buy-back was funded from the public purse.
Not gun clubs, not firearms dealers, not licence holders for firearms,
THE GENERAL PUBLIC - IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC SAFETY.
So why has the aviation industry alone and in isolation been forced to bear the cost of this rubbish?
Even if it was effective, even if it was efficient - the cost is still a bunch of bullsh#t, and should be on the public in general.
Well I can't really see a problem with that logic. The similarity is actually pretty bloody good.
And reading this thread, EMU and MURLOW (and others) - well I've got to agree with you guys. It is a deadset con, an absolute joke, and anyone involved with creating/proposing/approving it (I hope you're reading this) you should be UTTERLY EMBARRASED.
I repeat - UTTERLY EMBARRASED.
Do us all a favour - take the rest of your life off, you bunch of - can't even think of a strong enough word... You should all be lined up and SHOT THROUGH THE HEAD.
CR.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Counter Rotation,
Whilst I am directly involved with the processing and issuing of ASICs, it is a job I could well do without. It is time consuming and seems to achieve very little in the grand scheme of things. All this has done is penalise law abiding pilots and funded a very hungry monster in Canberra called DOTARS.
I know of one particular instance where a guy came to Australia on holiday, hired an aircraft and flew off into the never never without so much as one person checking his ASIC. By the time he got to my airport, the horse had well and truly bolted so all I could do was call DOTARS and advise what had happened and what I intended to do about it. That was, to restrict his access to non RPT operational periods and get him the f*&k out of there as soon as possible. Don't know how he got on at the myriad of other so called security controlled airports he visited. But wasn't my problem then. I could have been a real pr1ck and denied him access airside totally and called the operator to come and recover their aircraft.
Highlights a serious point though in that many of us have endured a lot of hardship and in some cases lost tens even hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost turnover due to the inability of the governmet to process ASICs in a timely manner for overseas pilots. Then one clown comes along, pleads ignorance and no one batts an eyelid.
Even CASA f*&ked it up when a guy was waiting for his ASIC they told him to contact the airport concerned and ask to be issued a Visitors Identification Card (VIC). "Wrong answer a$$hole" A VIC is only for airside use by persons having to work there and MUST BE SUPERVISED at all times by an ASIC holder. If anyone can tell me how said VIC could be supervised, once he gets back in his aircraft, closes the doors and starts up, I'm all ears.
So we now have the regulator giving advice contrary to the legislation of DOTARS.
Unfortunately, you will not change DOTARS and therefore the current government's minds and make them see that the current system is expensive and unnecessary. There are a lot of senior puplic servants and a few Sir Humphreys who's livelihoods depend on our continuing to fork out money hand over fist. At the risk of sounding defeatist, as long as they have the general public duped into believing that the right thing is being done and the sky is safer because of ASICS, we probaby have little chance of seeing any change soon. Forget the current minister, he's probably already looking at cleaning out his desk. We need to focus on the other mob.
Whilst I am directly involved with the processing and issuing of ASICs, it is a job I could well do without. It is time consuming and seems to achieve very little in the grand scheme of things. All this has done is penalise law abiding pilots and funded a very hungry monster in Canberra called DOTARS.
I know of one particular instance where a guy came to Australia on holiday, hired an aircraft and flew off into the never never without so much as one person checking his ASIC. By the time he got to my airport, the horse had well and truly bolted so all I could do was call DOTARS and advise what had happened and what I intended to do about it. That was, to restrict his access to non RPT operational periods and get him the f*&k out of there as soon as possible. Don't know how he got on at the myriad of other so called security controlled airports he visited. But wasn't my problem then. I could have been a real pr1ck and denied him access airside totally and called the operator to come and recover their aircraft.
Highlights a serious point though in that many of us have endured a lot of hardship and in some cases lost tens even hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost turnover due to the inability of the governmet to process ASICs in a timely manner for overseas pilots. Then one clown comes along, pleads ignorance and no one batts an eyelid.
Even CASA f*&ked it up when a guy was waiting for his ASIC they told him to contact the airport concerned and ask to be issued a Visitors Identification Card (VIC). "Wrong answer a$$hole" A VIC is only for airside use by persons having to work there and MUST BE SUPERVISED at all times by an ASIC holder. If anyone can tell me how said VIC could be supervised, once he gets back in his aircraft, closes the doors and starts up, I'm all ears.
So we now have the regulator giving advice contrary to the legislation of DOTARS.
Unfortunately, you will not change DOTARS and therefore the current government's minds and make them see that the current system is expensive and unnecessary. There are a lot of senior puplic servants and a few Sir Humphreys who's livelihoods depend on our continuing to fork out money hand over fist. At the risk of sounding defeatist, as long as they have the general public duped into believing that the right thing is being done and the sky is safer because of ASICS, we probaby have little chance of seeing any change soon. Forget the current minister, he's probably already looking at cleaning out his desk. We need to focus on the other mob.
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We have quite a few foreign pilots enter australia in private aircraft at our particular airport. And we have encounted problems of no aussie asics and no company id's. At a recent security meeting with DOTARS I raised the matter and their response was " We are still working on ways of dealing with that " We all knew what she really meant was " We hadn't thought of that one !"
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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We hadn't thought of that one !
All nice well meaning people but clearly no aviation background and a lot of them don't even understant their own legislation
But it's a good number for ADF and police types who are beyond use by date.
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And this SUX
Probably the most viable GA business in the country was forced to close up.....not coz it was broke...........
http://www.goana.com.au/main.htm
SHAME SHAME SHAME
Oddly enough, a Rudd government would have done the same thing......its the system not Liberal V Labour.
J
http://www.goana.com.au/main.htm
SHAME SHAME SHAME
Oddly enough, a Rudd government would have done the same thing......its the system not Liberal V Labour.
J
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Jabawocky,
Yep exactly! That site is probably the greatest tragedy of the whole ASIC debacle. Most of us can live, albeit begrudgingly, with the ASIC costs but when they introduced the system without any consultation or industry impact analysis the poor guy running this very successful aviation and tourism business had no choice but to shut up shop and sell his aircraft. We contacted him to see if he was interested in some sort of resurrection of the business but understadably he is a very bitter man and seems to want no more part in aviation.
Maybe it is not a Lib vs Lab thing but the current minister has clearly been duped by a bunch of self serving public servants.
Yep exactly! That site is probably the greatest tragedy of the whole ASIC debacle. Most of us can live, albeit begrudgingly, with the ASIC costs but when they introduced the system without any consultation or industry impact analysis the poor guy running this very successful aviation and tourism business had no choice but to shut up shop and sell his aircraft. We contacted him to see if he was interested in some sort of resurrection of the business but understadably he is a very bitter man and seems to want no more part in aviation.
Maybe it is not a Lib vs Lab thing but the current minister has clearly been duped by a bunch of self serving public servants.
So here is a question for you. And what I say below is what I saw coming, and a big reason for my earlier post in this thread (amongst others).
Suppose...
You applied for an ASIC, as your current one was running out. You started the application process about 2 months before the expiry of your current ASIC.
For various (read: typical of this sh**!) reasons, outside of your control, you will not receive your new ASIC before your old one expires (can you see where I'm going with this?!)
The company you work for says along the lines of: "you'll have to just wear a visitor's pass (no escort) and hope for the best until your new one arrives
)
Surely it's fair enough to say "to hell with that!!"
Is it? After all, if I get caught breaching "the act" it goes against my record for good.
What do you guys and gals think about this?
CR
Suppose...
You applied for an ASIC, as your current one was running out. You started the application process about 2 months before the expiry of your current ASIC.
For various (read: typical of this sh**!) reasons, outside of your control, you will not receive your new ASIC before your old one expires (can you see where I'm going with this?!)
The company you work for says along the lines of: "you'll have to just wear a visitor's pass (no escort) and hope for the best until your new one arrives
)Surely it's fair enough to say "to hell with that!!"
Is it? After all, if I get caught breaching "the act" it goes against my record for good.
What do you guys and gals think about this?
CR
Last edited by Counter-rotation; 29th Sep 2007 at 23:06. Reason: to add a bit more fuel to the "I hate ASIC" fire...
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Counter Rotation, mate I sypmathise with your problem - don't tell me you applied through CASA for your card?
I don't necessarily like this system and can see numerous flaws in it's application. We are however stuck with it and therefore need to understand fully how to operate within the ATSRs
A Visitor Identification Card (VIC) is location specific so really no use to a pilot travelling to varirous security controlled airports. Furthermore, if you are flying a single pilot operation a VIC even at a visiting airport does not meet the criteria as you are required at all times to be supervised by an ASIC holder whilst airside. Your supervision would effectively cease once you enter the aircraft and close the door leaving the ASIC holder outside. I even had to point this fact out to both DOTARS and CASA on a couple of occasions. If however you are in a muliti crew operation, the VIC could work but you would still need a card for each loction you go to.
Is the company you work for an Authorised Issuing Authority (AIA)? If so, they should keep one or two Temporary ASICs in stock that can be issued once the security clearance comes back. Although it costs a bit more, the service from AUSCHECK is far superior to what it was combined with AFP and DOTARS and they are turning around applications generally in about 5 working days. If the security clearance has come back, you can be issued a Temp ASIC whilst waiting for your card to be printed.
PM me if you would like any specific advice.
I don't necessarily like this system and can see numerous flaws in it's application. We are however stuck with it and therefore need to understand fully how to operate within the ATSRs
A Visitor Identification Card (VIC) is location specific so really no use to a pilot travelling to varirous security controlled airports. Furthermore, if you are flying a single pilot operation a VIC even at a visiting airport does not meet the criteria as you are required at all times to be supervised by an ASIC holder whilst airside. Your supervision would effectively cease once you enter the aircraft and close the door leaving the ASIC holder outside. I even had to point this fact out to both DOTARS and CASA on a couple of occasions.
If however you are in a muliti crew operation, the VIC could work but you would still need a card for each loction you go to.Is the company you work for an Authorised Issuing Authority (AIA)? If so, they should keep one or two Temporary ASICs in stock that can be issued once the security clearance comes back. Although it costs a bit more, the service from AUSCHECK is far superior to what it was combined with AFP and DOTARS and they are turning around applications generally in about 5 working days. If the security clearance has come back, you can be issued a Temp ASIC whilst waiting for your card to be printed.
PM me if you would like any specific advice.
