Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Dixon Hits Panic Button on Pilots...

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Dixon Hits Panic Button on Pilots...

Old 22nd Jul 2007, 09:34
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 27
Dixon Hits Panic Button on Pilots...

Forgive me if this issue has been raised or commented upon elsewhere.

On Friday Mr Dixon released a letter which, in the context of recent history, is quite remarkable. After years of taking an approach to pilot relations which appears to indicate he regards us as overpaid, underworked, and deserving of little respect, it seems he has suddenly been made aware of our value.

Amongst other things, Mr Dixon highlights the scope of career advancement opportunities available in the next 5 years, during which time he suggests every FO and SO will have the opportunity to upgrade. Further, he denies ever having plans to create a Jetstar wetlease organisation providing services to Qantas.

The letter smacks of a sudden realisation that the shortage of skilled aviators is so acute that it may dramatically affect the bottom line. Perhaps the growing trickle of departing pilots is starting to cause concern. After all, nothing loses money faster than billions of dollars of brand new aircraft with no crew to fly them.

So, given past history, does Mr Dixon really have the credibility to simply issue a letter painting the picture of a bright and rosy future, and expect people to review their career plans accordingly?

The whole thing is strikingly similar to John Howard suddenly becoming a climate change believer. Expect to see GOD coming to a youtube screen somewhere near you!

Suddenly we are a valuable commodity, so we need to make the most of it. CPI just doesn't cut it in good times, because there is absolutely no chance of the new found love enduring when the next downturn hits...

Do you trust this man?
Ochre Insider is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 09:40
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 206
I knew the old prune would come around. It was just a matter of time.

Now show me the money!
Erin Brockovich is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 10:16
  #3 (permalink)  
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Pass A Frozo,
Yes, climate change is definitely the "flavour of the month", with the Greens and Gareth Evans leading the parade. I'm sick and tired of hearing about it; there seems no doubt that it is a real phenomenon but not one that hasn't occured before on this planet long before industry efluent, motor cars or aeroplanes. As far as I am concerned, it is a pre election political foot ball and will die a natural death after the elections, whoever wins it.
HotDog is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 11:02
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: On a date with destiny.
Posts: 171
So, we pilots are obviously being a bit more of a pain in the proverbial than Dixon thought we could be!

I'm sure we'll never reach his standing in the "pain in ye proverbial" stakes, but then who cares... (apart from "aircraft").

Now where's my 7% ???

If it's good enough for the polies, it's certainly the least we could get...
assasin8 is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 12:41
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
what a hypocrit!!

I would not trust him as far as I could kick him.
All he is looking to do is get a few EBA signed off and get us to turn our back whilst he lines up the next king hit!
QFinsider is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 03:45
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Kubin Island
Posts: 66
The original "copy" of the latest flight ops news letter posted on the intranet in early July included a comment from the CP on page 2. This was regarding the recent training slots and the bright outlook for mainline pilots. He said words to the effect; "In the next 5 years most current FO's will have command opportunities and all SO's will be promoted"

CEO then says the same thing in letter to his "collegues" 20/07

Printed copy of flight ops newsletter in crew mailboxes now has these original comments by CP regarding promotion removed . . . . .

It appears someone somewhere for some reason has decided the "good news" should be coming from a higher authority???? Interesting dynamic going on.
Kubin rock climber is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 04:42
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: bumf*ck, idaho
Posts: 447
Commands where though?

It wont be mainline......
Sonny Hammond is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 05:05
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: anywhere
Posts: 121
sydney, domestic, disabled toilet cubicle,

quote: "dixon sux co.."

says it all really
ithinkso is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 05:47
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: oz
Posts: 627
Good point Sonny
plucking a figure out of my backside, but would'nt that be somewhere in the vicinity of 5-600 commands??
So QF are getting 80-90 A/C in the next 5 years ( not counting a/c that will replace other types )
Thats 2 a month for the next 5 years, hope they start arriving soon

Jeez, with QFs 180 odd, Jetstars 50 odd, VBs 75 odd and Tigers 20-50 odd.................where the hell are they going to park them

( we'll worry about where all the paying customers r going to come from later )
cunninglinguist is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 06:19
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,166
The numbers don't add up. My guess is that the title of this topic is spot on.

Dixon has belatedly been told by a flunky, "errr though you hate their guts, and consider their skills set on a par with CityRail drivers, and that the aircraft fly themselves,.... we have done a lot of research on this and have found out that actually that is not true, and they don't grow on trees and they will leave if they can't get a decent career path!!!"

Dear colleagues....
Capt Kremin is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 06:49
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 749
Pass A Frozo, do you happen to have a John Howard action-man doll on your bedside table? Not that I want it, but I was just wondering!

Anyway.......yes, Geoffrey is most likely going to have to eat some humble pie if he wants hundreds more pilots to fly his new planes. I have my doubts as to whether he has a heavily flowering "airline pilot tree" at the back of his office, so he's going to have to at the very least stop any from leaving, and maybe try to stop potential recruits going overseas.
DutchRoll is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 07:29
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,383
and virgin haven't even started recruiting (just replacing people that are moving on)
Mr. Hat is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 07:43
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 80
This Does Not Add Up

Impressive statement by GD, however, the facts are:

Around 970 Current First Officers.
Around 300 pilots over the age of 54. (allow 1 yr to train and avg 60 retire)
Aircraft orders over next 5 yrs Max 20 A380, 8 A330 (inc Jetstar 6) 4 737's
Aircraft retirements??????

Assuming 9 crews per aircraft (heavy) = 288 commands
plus 300 retirements

Total 588 new commands.

Again this is does not include 5 747 retirements or 737 or 767 retirements.

I suggest another theory:

Manning is looking at TOTAL commands i.e. including consequentials. Given that there are at least 3 moves for each 744 retirement then maybe with consequentials 900 commands could be achieved, however only 300 of those would be INITIAL commands.

Any other way it does not add up.
VH-JJW is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 08:24
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,637

Not questioning your theory, but it appears you've left out the 80 x 787s on order (with options on 35 more)...
Taildragger67 is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 08:53
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: REAL WORLD
Posts: 352
first 787

with the red tail on it does not touch down in syd till late 2010
watch tomorrow when the financials will be delivered. you will hear a number of announcements. fleet spin-off, frquent flyer program sold, freight/logistics seperate company and of cours the new LOGO.
mrpaxing is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 08:58
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,637

Yeah but he's included 6 x A330s for JQ in his calcs. VH-JJW also states that his calcs are over the next five years, which would clearly include 2010.
Taildragger67 is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 09:54
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 80
I may stand corrected, however:

787's do not arrive till 2012.

Dixon excluded them as additional.
VH-JJW is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 09:58
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: oz
Posts: 627
So you reckon QF are going to add 80 ( 15 minimum to Jet* anyway, but lets not talk semantics ) widebody A/C to their Existing fleet with no existing A/C retirements?
They are just going to half again the size of their fleet in 5 years............interesting.
cunninglinguist is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 10:48
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: bumf*ck, idaho
Posts: 447

These are LIES. Pure and Simple.

Time and time again Dixon has proven he says exactly what he has to say to get his way.
He needs to maintain some decorum on pilot numbers, so to be safe than sorry, what better way to GET HIS WAY, than to dangle a few carrots around.

*Most of the mainline fleet could be retired in the short term. Face it, most of their fleet is old.

*A good number of mainline pilots are nearing retirement as well, and if necessary, GD could make pilots redundant, the provisions for this in the Contract are quite pathetic and would be a tempting solution (whilst also waving a J* 787 contract around and acting like a super generous boss, "what a great guy I am, why do you publicly slander me??? I am offering you another job- there just no helping you selfish unionists....")

*Any new a/c to mainline, are at best replacements, but really the overall fleet numbers will be in negative territory.

*The Beancounters are going to put as many 787's thru J* as possible. They have publicly stated this, and the fact that Dixon is now saying 'we have no intention to paint J* 787's with the new roo paint job basically guarantees that they will.

*GD etc know that there are many qualified capts o/s at the moment that will more than likely be lured back by a half reasonable package to fly these 787's, there by making any remaining QF pilots even less relevant.

Understand his motivation and his tactics are clear.

The question is, are you going to be a victim of them?
Sonny Hammond is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 11:28
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 49
Posts: 253
Sonny, a little pessimistic I think...
podbreak is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.