Dixon Hits Panic Button on Pilots...
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Maybe, but can you discount any of my facts
I was pessimistic for the past 5 years and unfortunately most of my pessimistic theories came to pass.
We'll see I guess.
I was pessimistic for the past 5 years and unfortunately most of my pessimistic theories came to pass.
We'll see I guess.
Sonny, You are both incorrect and overly pessimistic. The first 15 B787's are -8 versions which initially go to Jetstar Intl but as Jetstar start receiving the -9 version the -8s are progressively transferred to mainline for use on domestic/Tasman routes (replacing some of the older B767's). Jetstar Intl configuration (seating, IFE etc) is virtually identical to mainline domestic so no configuration changes will be required. The Jetstar paintscheme will probably be a white hull to minimise costs when transferring aircraft.
After Jetstar has received 15 B787-9's, then deliveries of the -9 version to mainline will commence. Management have identified a number of new destinations that are business oriented and therefore suited to the mainline product - not Jetstar's product which is aimed at holiday makers and Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR) ie low yield markets. The -9's in mainline service will be in two configurations - a 3 class and a 2 class (not counting the premium economy seating as a separate class). With the number of city pairs that management want to fly then it's possible for mainline to end up with 55 B789's and 15 B788's (replacing 29 B767's). That's before you start discussing B787-10's or A350's to replace later B744's from 2012 on (possibly as many as 30).
The A332's currently flown by Jetstar will return to mainline when Jetstar start receiving the B787-8's. Additionally, more A332's will be delivered from Airbus so mainline will end up with 12 A332's in addition to the 10 A333's.
The B743's and some of the B744's will be replaced by 20 A380's.
All up there will be a significant increase in hull numbers resulting in massive amount of promotion training and many more pilots required (minimum of 12-15 pilots every month for 3 years). Careers are finally getting back on track for mainline pilots.
After Jetstar has received 15 B787-9's, then deliveries of the -9 version to mainline will commence. Management have identified a number of new destinations that are business oriented and therefore suited to the mainline product - not Jetstar's product which is aimed at holiday makers and Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR) ie low yield markets. The -9's in mainline service will be in two configurations - a 3 class and a 2 class (not counting the premium economy seating as a separate class). With the number of city pairs that management want to fly then it's possible for mainline to end up with 55 B789's and 15 B788's (replacing 29 B767's). That's before you start discussing B787-10's or A350's to replace later B744's from 2012 on (possibly as many as 30).
The A332's currently flown by Jetstar will return to mainline when Jetstar start receiving the B787-8's. Additionally, more A332's will be delivered from Airbus so mainline will end up with 12 A332's in addition to the 10 A333's.
The B743's and some of the B744's will be replaced by 20 A380's.
All up there will be a significant increase in hull numbers resulting in massive amount of promotion training and many more pilots required (minimum of 12-15 pilots every month for 3 years). Careers are finally getting back on track for mainline pilots.
Last edited by Going Boeing; 23rd Jul 2007 at 13:50.
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Going Boeing,
do you think there are going to be enough pilots around to fill the 150 odd positions per year? I guess QF is not for everyone, but there looks like there might be lots of opportunity for those who are keen.
do you think there are going to be enough pilots around to fill the 150 odd positions per year? I guess QF is not for everyone, but there looks like there might be lots of opportunity for those who are keen.
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Good on ya Frozo
Bite the Insider where it hurts mate, how the f....k does he know anyway that Howard just found out about climate change. He knows like any other educated individual that climate has always been changing.
Totally irrelevent to his post and yep, very true, Labor has had no lead on this right through Hawke, Bleating Keating and ever since they have been in opposition.
Totally irrelevent to his post and yep, very true, Labor has had no lead on this right through Hawke, Bleating Keating and ever since they have been in opposition.
1 Day
I think that QF will really struggle to get enough which is why Dixon has had a "change of heart". I also think that Jetstar will find it even harder to get the numbers that it needs for the extra A320's as well as the B787's. They will end up offering at least mainline rates of pay to attract pilots.
I think that QF will really struggle to get enough which is why Dixon has had a "change of heart". I also think that Jetstar will find it even harder to get the numbers that it needs for the extra A320's as well as the B787's. They will end up offering at least mainline rates of pay to attract pilots.
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Attn CAPT (insert fleet managers name)
The first 15 B787's are -8 versions which initially go to Jetstar Intl but as Jetstar start receiving the -9 version the -8s are progressively transferred to mainline for use on domestic/Tasman routes (replacing some of the older B767's).
So J*'s old a/c are replacing qf's retirements. Do you believe that mainline pilots will miraculously start flying these machines the next day on superior pay and conditions?
If they do, wow, they get to fly the tasman, again.
The Jetstar paintscheme will probably be a white hull to minimise costs when transferring aircraft Yeh, probably.
Management have identified a number of new destinations that are business oriented and therefore suited to the mainline product - not Jetstar's product which is aimed at holiday makers and Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR) ie low yield markets
Like BN-SY.
The A332's currently flown by Jetstar will return to mainline when Jetstar start receiving the B787-8's. Additionally, more A332's will be delivered from Airbus so mainline will end up with 12 A332's in addition to the 10 A333's.
You mean the a/c Borghetti is quoted in the press as saying will go to Vietnam to expand the QANTAS Group's interest up there?
The B743's and some of the B744's will be replaced by 20 A380's
So, I think there is 8 743's and possibly 27 (more realistically 15) 744's will replaced by how many A380's? 20, yep a huge order of 20. Best result there is same fleet number.
All up there will be a significant increase in hull numbers resulting in massive amount of promotion training and many more pilots required (minimum of 12-15 pilots every month for 3 years). Careers are finally getting back on track for mainline pilots
Which fleet exactly are you the manager of?
Wake up mate.
So J*'s old a/c are replacing qf's retirements. Do you believe that mainline pilots will miraculously start flying these machines the next day on superior pay and conditions?
If they do, wow, they get to fly the tasman, again.
The Jetstar paintscheme will probably be a white hull to minimise costs when transferring aircraft Yeh, probably.
Management have identified a number of new destinations that are business oriented and therefore suited to the mainline product - not Jetstar's product which is aimed at holiday makers and Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR) ie low yield markets
Like BN-SY.
The A332's currently flown by Jetstar will return to mainline when Jetstar start receiving the B787-8's. Additionally, more A332's will be delivered from Airbus so mainline will end up with 12 A332's in addition to the 10 A333's.
You mean the a/c Borghetti is quoted in the press as saying will go to Vietnam to expand the QANTAS Group's interest up there?
The B743's and some of the B744's will be replaced by 20 A380's
So, I think there is 8 743's and possibly 27 (more realistically 15) 744's will replaced by how many A380's? 20, yep a huge order of 20. Best result there is same fleet number.
All up there will be a significant increase in hull numbers resulting in massive amount of promotion training and many more pilots required (minimum of 12-15 pilots every month for 3 years). Careers are finally getting back on track for mainline pilots
Which fleet exactly are you the manager of?
Wake up mate.
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In retrospect I may be being a bit harsh. At the end of the day I don't care as it has no impact on me.
I don't want to be a doomsdayer, I do think there will be jobs, but GD is going to have it his way.
Thats just the way I see it.
I don't want to be a doomsdayer, I do think there will be jobs, but GD is going to have it his way.
Thats just the way I see it.
Sonny
QF now only has 4 B743's operating on it's books.
For the last few years it has been all bad - no recruiting, no promotions and the future looking grim. Now finally there is some good news, LOTS of recruiting, lots of training, a positive letter from the CEO ( the first ever?!) and folks are still bleating.
QF now only has 4 B743's operating on it's books.
For the last few years it has been all bad - no recruiting, no promotions and the future looking grim. Now finally there is some good news, LOTS of recruiting, lots of training, a positive letter from the CEO ( the first ever?!) and folks are still bleating.
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You cannot blame QF pilots for being just a 'little' pessimistic. Previous statements by GD such as:
'Jetstar will not expand beyond 23 aircraft' and
'Jetstar will not cannibalise mainline'
or the Chief pilots mantra in 2003/4 of
There will be a great deal of promotions, particularly on the 767
followed by the 2006 comments to the effect of
If a QF pilots 36 year career was spent 12 years as an s/o and 12 as an f/o etc then that would be reasonable, however noone has spent that long to command...............yet.
At the end of the day, despite Going Boeing's comments (which do not realate to the Dixon letter anyway as they refer to the 787), I for one would like to know how approx 1000 initial commands will be issued in the next 5 years.
Thats 200 INITIAL commands a year. assuming only 1 consequential up the line then that is
400 Total command training experiences PER YEAR.
PLUS s/o's to F/O's ateven the same rate is another 400 upgrades, plus 500 intake s/o's over 3 years (166 per annum)
TOTAL = 966 pilots undergoing training PER YEAR for the next 5 Years.
(as far as I can see the above is conservative)
That would make even Emirates flinch.
This from an airline which has upgraded at most 150 per annum for the last 3 years.
So has anyone else in Qantas not noticed the 640% increase in training resources?
Where are all the FSO's looking for hundreds of Check and Training pilots?
Where are the new simulator instructors?
Where are the new simulators?
Where are the aircraft orders to justify this?
Hey - where are all the pilots coming from??????
I would say to Mr Dixon and Mr Manning - If you want us to consider staying then justify your statements - Money talks, bullcrap walks.
At the end of the day I can see a lot of dissappointed and dissolusioned pilots standing around without LH or Window seats in 5 years time. I can also see two managers who will be long gone, but still counting bonus money earnt off the back of YOUR retention.
'Jetstar will not expand beyond 23 aircraft' and
'Jetstar will not cannibalise mainline'
or the Chief pilots mantra in 2003/4 of
There will be a great deal of promotions, particularly on the 767
followed by the 2006 comments to the effect of
If a QF pilots 36 year career was spent 12 years as an s/o and 12 as an f/o etc then that would be reasonable, however noone has spent that long to command...............yet.
At the end of the day, despite Going Boeing's comments (which do not realate to the Dixon letter anyway as they refer to the 787), I for one would like to know how approx 1000 initial commands will be issued in the next 5 years.
Thats 200 INITIAL commands a year. assuming only 1 consequential up the line then that is
400 Total command training experiences PER YEAR.
PLUS s/o's to F/O's ateven the same rate is another 400 upgrades, plus 500 intake s/o's over 3 years (166 per annum)
TOTAL = 966 pilots undergoing training PER YEAR for the next 5 Years.
(as far as I can see the above is conservative)
That would make even Emirates flinch.
This from an airline which has upgraded at most 150 per annum for the last 3 years.
So has anyone else in Qantas not noticed the 640% increase in training resources?
Where are all the FSO's looking for hundreds of Check and Training pilots?
Where are the new simulator instructors?
Where are the new simulators?
Where are the aircraft orders to justify this?
Hey - where are all the pilots coming from??????
I would say to Mr Dixon and Mr Manning - If you want us to consider staying then justify your statements - Money talks, bullcrap walks.
At the end of the day I can see a lot of dissappointed and dissolusioned pilots standing around without LH or Window seats in 5 years time. I can also see two managers who will be long gone, but still counting bonus money earnt off the back of YOUR retention.
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Between JJW's view on the operational aspect of all this and my objective view of the facts, a case too hard to ignore has been made clearly showing that this is yet just another attempt to pacify the troops whilst they are being circled.
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AIPA are currently negotiating EBA 8. I guess the proof of Dixon's statement will be his willingness to sign off on that EBA if it contains similiar clauses regarding the 787 that EBA 7 had about the A380.
to wit: 787's operated for and by Qantas, will be operated under mainline terms and conditions.
AIPA members should be prepared to not accept anything less.
to wit: 787's operated for and by Qantas, will be operated under mainline terms and conditions.
AIPA members should be prepared to not accept anything less.
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the devil as always
is in the details:
Mr Dixon said the Qantas Group would take delivery of its first B787-8 aircraft in July next year.
"The first 15 aircraft will be used by Jetstar, accelerating the growth of its international operations."
"In line with the company`s two brand philosophy, subsequent deliveries will be allocated between Qantas and Jetstar on the basis of the best returns for the Group."
talk about contradiction from GD letter to pilots.
Mr Dixon said the Qantas Group would take delivery of its first B787-8 aircraft in July next year.
"The first 15 aircraft will be used by Jetstar, accelerating the growth of its international operations."
"In line with the company`s two brand philosophy, subsequent deliveries will be allocated between Qantas and Jetstar on the basis of the best returns for the Group."
talk about contradiction from GD letter to pilots.
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Jimothy - That is why these forums are a far cry from an accurate representation of the industry climate.
Most people who aren't jaded or have issues with certain aspects (i.e. new logo etc) won't usually write about it. However, as soon as people become frustrated this forum offers the perfect medium to vent. I think its wise for new pilots to not get absorbed into the pprune, as it can be a severly skewed representation of reality.
Most people who aren't jaded or have issues with certain aspects (i.e. new logo etc) won't usually write about it. However, as soon as people become frustrated this forum offers the perfect medium to vent. I think its wise for new pilots to not get absorbed into the pprune, as it can be a severly skewed representation of reality.
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Further to the thread on best ATC, we should start a who has the most miserable pilots.
My vote, going by what is written here, QF by a country mile.
If it is so bloody bad, why don't you piss off! Plenty of jobs going around. Take your superior skills and knowledge and go for it, but for farks sake stop bloody whinging!
My vote, going by what is written here, QF by a country mile.
If it is so bloody bad, why don't you piss off! Plenty of jobs going around. Take your superior skills and knowledge and go for it, but for farks sake stop bloody whinging!
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If it is so bloody bad, why don't you piss off! Plenty of jobs going around. Take your superior skills and knowledge and go for it, but for farks sake stop bloody whinging!