Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

"30 more pilots underpaid"

Old 21st Jun 2007, 02:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if all the cadets who paid $32000 to "work" as a Skippers FO for a year could be entitled to getting paid out.

Think about it.

Endorsement cost : $8500.

That leaves $23500 which gets given back to the cadet in the form of pay which means they are effectively not being paid for almost 12 months.

Without getting into the evils of cadetships, surely they are entitled to be paid for working and not having to pay their own wage.....
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 05:13
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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" Don't ever feel sorry the so called professional pilots who excepted the new AWA."
Most new hires don't expect anyone to feel sorry for them. They knew the conditions before signing and will live with it. Crap money for first 2 years.
" $ 61 800- 3500= $ 58 300 to be an F/O for an Airline" ( Yr 1)
Very clever! Now try this one : $ 58 300- 38 000 ( Braz F/O) = $ 20 000 extra. OR
$ 58 300 - 56 500 ( Braz Capt)= $ 1800 extra. + no loading or unloading of pax baggage. no refuelling of your own aircraft. No being rostered on your reserve days to do gardening or wash windows!
GA is where most of the "New Hires" come from.
" I hope they will live with that AWA for a very long time"
At least 3 years I expect.
"Pay peanuts, you get monkeys"
Obviously Dogs too!

.......and $58,000- $110,000 = $-52,000 if you were one of those passegers you used to fly to and from mine sites driving a dump truck.
You can justify taking the job as an F/O on a 717 for 58,300 (2yrs) all you like, but dont deny the fact you have lowered the bar further than it has ever been in lowered this country , and you have managed to except these conditions at a time when every Airline in the World is screeming for drivers. I dare say you will soon be on less money than a Bras captain if companies follow Brindabella Airlines lead and offer pay rises.
You do realise there is a pilot shortage dont you??
National Jet is lowering aviation standards to new levels, apparently new Cabin crew have to pay for own training and are bonded. When will it stop???
When we refuse to work for CR@P.
So justify to yourself and your mates, why you have taken these conditions, and enjoy jumping into your new shiny jet and give yourself a pat on the back, You've made it. And I hope you have it for a long time, when the rest of us get or wait for what we are worth.
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 06:26
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Your entitled to you opinion Charlie as much as anyone !

Don't blame New Guys or other guys accepting upgrades for something that was put together by Management\ HR.

The " Bar" plummeted at NJS and in the industry way before Nov 06.

You'll get no argument from myself or anyone that the salary scale is poor for a Jet F/O position as are the New upgrade AWA's.

The operating conditions at NJS are alot higher than in most GA operations which I suggest is the main attraction for New Guys. Many would'nt give a sh#t if the aircraft is shiny, or new, or old.

RC
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 06:53
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Your entitled to you opinion Charlie as much as anyone !
Don't blame New Guys or other guys accepting upgrades for something that was put together by Management\ HR.
The " Bar" plummeted at NJS and in the industry way before Nov 06.
I do blame them for signing the new AWA. Because THEY SIGNED IT. If no one signed it would have to be improved to attract your signature.
Conratulations to those who did say NO to the AWA, and I hear they are still desperate for pilots and are giving next day interviews over a lazy coffee. Again I say " pay peanuts, get Monkeys"

You'll get no argument from myself or anyone that the salary scale is poor for a Jet F/O position as are the New upgrade AWA's.THEN WHY SIGN THE BLOODY THING???????????????
The operating conditions at NJS are alot higher than in most GA operations which I suggest is the main attraction for New Guys. Many would'nt give a sh#t if the aircraft is shiny, or new, or old.
RC This my friend is the attitude that companies like National Joke have been able to expliot so easily with people like your self.
Just because it is better than GA doesn't make it BETTER. If you are comparing your life in an airline to that of your time in GA and are happy with marginally better conditions THAN GOD HELP US ALL if the management of airlines read your statement. And I'm sure you have carried this sought of attitude with you through your career in GA and undercut AWARD conditions, fellow pilots etc... to get to those magnificent heights you have now acheived.
Congratulations.
Yes my post was blunt and rude and dont know your position. But PLEASE never use the argument " it's better than GA" as an excuse to sell your sole to the National Joke Management. That my friend makes me feel ill.
Other excuses that I would except:
1. Missed out on every other Airline Interview and this was my last chance to fly a Jet.
2. I'm From Perth and dont want to move. And I made enough money in the property boom.
3. it looks like a QANTAS jet, and thus chicks dig me.
.....anyone got any others?????
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 07:22
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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OK Charlie I give up!!

I don't know your position either. For the record I spent a large chunk of my career overseas on contract work.

Clearly it is something you are bitter about!

If you want to continue this then feel free to PM me,otherwise lets leave the thread to it's origin ie . The OWS issue and Management.

RC
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 08:39
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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SDT,
Whilst i am happy to be proven incorrect, it appears to me fanciful to suggest that NJS Pilots ( or any Pilot ) is happy to pay membership to another Union, as their present union was unable to provide the support requested/needed, and continue to pay 1% percent to the original non performing organisation.
If you haven't worked it out by now, I am a little closer to the action than you. You are a spectator that has just walked through the gate. I am on the field and playing the game, mud on the jersey, copping a finger in the eye, etc.

It is not "fanciful". It is hard numbers, mate. I have no need to imagine or theorise -- I know the numbers because I see the roll.

The fact that the situation is counter-intuitive is what makes it remarkable. Scores of NJS AFAP members joined the TWU, and all bar one, have retained their expensive AFAP membership.

There will be no stoppages, no strikes, no secondary boycotts. -- I am not so certain of this, perhaps you should have a chat with the TWU rep. These are not the most impacting options at hand, are they?
I have had several chats with RB. What did he tell you when you rang him?
Good on them, when work was lean they bit the bullet with the operator, now times are good, a little in return is deserved.Good luck !!
I am now certain that your knowledge and dealings with NJS are from the periphery, if at all. Bit the bullet with the operator?!?!? That is the language of cooperation, when the reality is we were rolled!

"A little in return is deserved?" What the....?

Listen up. Large companies do not listen to words like "deserved" or "loyal" when it comes to wage claims. They'd have you for breakfast if that was how you approached an EBA negotiation.

Large businesses use words like Required Productivity Gains, EBITA, Key Performance Indicators, Internal Competitiveness, blah blah blah. Words that translate as -- greatest output for minimum cost.

They don't give a rat's arse about how good you think you are. Hours only matter if it meets CASA minimums. Experience on type or on glass only matters because it reduces training costs. Knowing how to apply an MEL in a way that is both (a) safe (b) legal and (c) avoids grounding the jet at an outport is appreciated by very few outside the flight ops department, if any.

They only start caring when their ability to put aeroplanes in the sky, on time and earning money, is affected.

Having perfectly serviceable aeroplanes sitting on the tarmac when they could be generating revenue, gets their attention. And if it is because their aint' enough pilots, then they start looking at the problem. If it is persistent, then they will only throw more money at it if that is the only way out.

The only thing that stands in the way of that, is a couple of generations of we pilots that are conditioned to "keep the show on the road" and accept callouts on RDO, duty extensions, etc. I am one of that generation too.

The point that I try to make, too forcefully it seems sometimes, yet it doesn't sink in, is that no company is going to hand you significantly better conditions without individual pilots being prepared to make a fuss, and ruffle a few feathers, using legal and actionable means.

The only people that can effect the changes we want in our workplaces, is us. You and I together. Not the union, not the workplace rep, not the government.

If you want something changed in the current industrial environment, you have to cop some flak yourself. You have to bear with situations that are uncomfortable, tense, not clear cut. You have to talk the language of business and place dollar values on our colleagues talent, capability, specialist skill sets, competitive advantage, proven problem solving ability. Not schoolyard tenets of 'deserve' or 'fair'. You have to be prepared to bear some of the risk, and accept short term loss. You have to be patient and wait for strategies to come to fruition, sometimes months later.

"Double Pluggers" are the same for cheap rubber thongs ( you know the ones with the double plugged straps in the middle ) .
Typing this in Darwin NT. It was 30 degrees today, the 21st July -- Singlet and thongs are de rigeur I must point out that double pluggers are not cheap rubber thongs. Double pluggers are superior thongs. They are much more durable, the double plug design meaning that you are less likely to suffer a blowout and resulting cuts and abrasions as you scurry for muddies in Rapid Creek. Moreover, if they are made of proper rubber, they are not cheap.

Last edited by ITCZ; 21st Jun 2007 at 15:04. Reason: Took off the hobnailed boots.
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 12:02
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Hey ITCZ'y,all that stuff aside,hows the new chair going
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Old 21st Jun 2007, 12:28
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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You can all argue the toss about AFAP vs TWU all day n night
But in reality benched or not benched that AFAP failed to achieve anything more than lip service in the last year in fact we were starting to wonder whose side LC was on

Whatever whoever brings them to justice is not the point........ NJS mis management and bullying brought this on themselves and now the axe has fallen on PR from HR

the staff r only resonding to their antagonism


I know of at least 6 NJS staff who have resigned their memberships from the AFAP..........


you wish Jellyfish
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