Pilots are Set
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Join Date: Dec 1999
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Pilots are Set
I hate to be optimistic if it's allowed here on PPrune lol, but I believe we are set.
We may moan and groan about various Airlines but lets face some facts, the number of training pilots have dropped below Sea Level the last couple of years and the demand is going through the roof atm. Just look overseas. I reckon if your in GA at the moment you are set 100% there is so few pilots around! What we need to do is reject crap conditions imposed because we are in the box seat, I hope we can achieve it! I was in GA almost 10 years, these days its unheard of, but dont reject your values to get that job. Good luck
We may moan and groan about various Airlines but lets face some facts, the number of training pilots have dropped below Sea Level the last couple of years and the demand is going through the roof atm. Just look overseas. I reckon if your in GA at the moment you are set 100% there is so few pilots around! What we need to do is reject crap conditions imposed because we are in the box seat, I hope we can achieve it! I was in GA almost 10 years, these days its unheard of, but dont reject your values to get that job. Good luck
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Nothing is 100% in aviation, and things could change very fast after another 9/11 event or similar...
But for the meanwhile, yeah not lookin too bad!
I like the positive thought though!
But for the meanwhile, yeah not lookin too bad!
I like the positive thought though!
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I'm edging into my third decade of Aviation. I've seen the ups and downs - as have many who have similar amounts of grey hair as I.
My advice to the younger and/or aspiring pruners - get established in G.A. or the Big Stuff while it lasts!!.
Without being pessimistic, all we need is another SARs, War/Oil spike or airframe supply issue (Airbus) and the industry will plateau again.
Good Luck.
My advice to the younger and/or aspiring pruners - get established in G.A. or the Big Stuff while it lasts!!.
Without being pessimistic, all we need is another SARs, War/Oil spike or airframe supply issue (Airbus) and the industry will plateau again.
Good Luck.
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For what it's worth, my advice is to learn how to put a value on your skills and know how to bargain ethically. The managers in charge of hiring won't have an option soon but negotiate for the skills they need. The unions don't hold the leverage these days like they did in the 60's and 70's. The leverage was with the employer throughout the end of the 80's, 90's and recently. It's now swinging into the individual's hand. There'll be many senior/incumbent pilots that will moan and groan wanting union representation, but they'll soon find out that individual bargaining will work for them too.
During a fairly protracted EBA negotiation some years ago, The Check and Training staff, some dozen or so in total, were complaining that they were overworked and under paid. In my opinion they were right.
Their loading was covered by a clause in the current EBA, and they came to my team asking that we press their case for an increase. We did this quite vigourously, but typically management were unmoved and responded that it was not on because there was not enough money.
As they represented only 15% of the then pilot workforce their, and subsequently our, bargaining position was not strong.
The next logical step I told them was to withdraw their labour and resign from the check and training department.
They were Angry and generally p#&$ed off, but not one of them resigned!
I guess what I am trying to say is that we have been used to taking the crap from these guys (management) for so long, we need to recognise that we don't have to take it any longer.
Lets face it most pilots are motivated by ambition and Ego. The Check and Trainers I have mentioned were in my opinion no different to the rest of us. They sqaundered a terrific opportunity to really improve their T&C's. Instead, they reacted to their own short term agenda's and the rest was history.
Lodown,
you're absolutely right. The individual is now in a great position. There is blood in the water, but we need to attack with thought.
The DJ Boys and Girls are leading the way. As I said before, it's going to be an interesting year(s)!
Their loading was covered by a clause in the current EBA, and they came to my team asking that we press their case for an increase. We did this quite vigourously, but typically management were unmoved and responded that it was not on because there was not enough money.
As they represented only 15% of the then pilot workforce their, and subsequently our, bargaining position was not strong.
The next logical step I told them was to withdraw their labour and resign from the check and training department.
They were Angry and generally p#&$ed off, but not one of them resigned!
I guess what I am trying to say is that we have been used to taking the crap from these guys (management) for so long, we need to recognise that we don't have to take it any longer.
Lets face it most pilots are motivated by ambition and Ego. The Check and Trainers I have mentioned were in my opinion no different to the rest of us. They sqaundered a terrific opportunity to really improve their T&C's. Instead, they reacted to their own short term agenda's and the rest was history.
Lodown,
you're absolutely right. The individual is now in a great position. There is blood in the water, but we need to attack with thought.
The DJ Boys and Girls are leading the way. As I said before, it's going to be an interesting year(s)!
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K34
Some people will never get a better deal because they simply fail to stand up to management and fight for what they believe to be right.
We all know people who would sell their grandmother to get a promotion, these ones will never change their selfish attitude.
Their own short term agenda is completely detrimental to their overall goal
We see it every day
Some people will never get a better deal because they simply fail to stand up to management and fight for what they believe to be right.
We all know people who would sell their grandmother to get a promotion, these ones will never change their selfish attitude.
Their own short term agenda is completely detrimental to their overall goal
We see it every day
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I don't know that Lodown's optimistic view of individual bargaining is going to be terribly practical or beneficial for airlines like QF when you would need to negotiate almost 2500 "individual" contracts for the pilots alone! If, for example, they tried to go to AWAs, I strongly suspect that they'd simply draft a "standard" one and just hand it to everybody to sign, especially new recruits who may be none-the-wiser. The HR people are hardly going to make 2500 half-hour appointments for everyone to come in and discuss their terms, unless they want to be doing it all day, every day for 6 months!
That aside, virtually the only people now still in a state of denial about pilot shortages are very senior managers like Dixon, Joyce, Godfrey, et al. When they wake up, and what position they'll take when and if they do, is anybody's guess. What also worries me is pretty much what Track Direct said. Just when pilots get in a strong position to negotiate favourable contract terms, some blithering idiot always comes in and screws it up for everybody.
That aside, virtually the only people now still in a state of denial about pilot shortages are very senior managers like Dixon, Joyce, Godfrey, et al. When they wake up, and what position they'll take when and if they do, is anybody's guess. What also worries me is pretty much what Track Direct said. Just when pilots get in a strong position to negotiate favourable contract terms, some blithering idiot always comes in and screws it up for everybody.
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Krusty 34
Great post, your dead right pilots have been shooting themselves in the foot for years and I don't think it will rapidly change in the near future.The complaining will continue to go on for decades yet.
Management use the tool of ("I love flying so I will do it at any cost")very effectively.
I hope that the virgin guys have success with their EBA ,it might be a sign of things to come.
Recently Management of The RFDS came to our base at Mascot and had a meeting about the EBA they said to the staff , if you don't like what we are offering then leave.Needless to say 5 guys have resigned or transferred out of the base with many others doing their best to get out.
Regards The Dog
Great post, your dead right pilots have been shooting themselves in the foot for years and I don't think it will rapidly change in the near future.The complaining will continue to go on for decades yet.
Management use the tool of ("I love flying so I will do it at any cost")very effectively.
I hope that the virgin guys have success with their EBA ,it might be a sign of things to come.
Recently Management of The RFDS came to our base at Mascot and had a meeting about the EBA they said to the staff , if you don't like what we are offering then leave.Needless to say 5 guys have resigned or transferred out of the base with many others doing their best to get out.
Regards The Dog
