Dotars paranoia
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Dotars paranoia
Aviation security is designed to safeguard Australia's civil aviation operations against "acts of unlawful interference".
OK, now can someone remind me why my kid can't come into the cockpit with me on a flight?
Do VB still allow flight deck visits from family members?
OK, now can someone remind me why my kid can't come into the cockpit with me on a flight?
Do VB still allow flight deck visits from family members?
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Wynsock,
understand your frustration but even this one is far beyond DOTARS influence. I don't believe there would be an airline in the world where non-crew personnel are allowed up front any more. Pretty sad really because it is those visits that I am sure inspired may young kids to pursue the ultimate dream.
I believe it was last week that a woman was arrested in Malaysia after she had a spit at the cabin crew for not allowing her obnoxious kid into the flight deck. Use of the magic word "hijack" was all that was needed for Mr plod to be waiting at the gate for her.
understand your frustration but even this one is far beyond DOTARS influence. I don't believe there would be an airline in the world where non-crew personnel are allowed up front any more. Pretty sad really because it is those visits that I am sure inspired may young kids to pursue the ultimate dream.
I believe it was last week that a woman was arrested in Malaysia after she had a spit at the cabin crew for not allowing her obnoxious kid into the flight deck. Use of the magic word "hijack" was all that was needed for Mr plod to be waiting at the gate for her.
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its plain WRONG
Its capitulating to the terrorist thugs, its us the good guys giving in. Geroge W and co all said we would not let them take our freedom. Seems they have. At least some of them.
Perhaps if enough tech crew petitioned their employers and DOTARS and Mr Howard this could change.
It just takes some determination and dare I say it "Common Sense"
If is was in your shoes, I reckon I would start the process.
In fact maybe get a high profile pilot on side to push the point in Canberra, even a set of rules, allowing kids, pax kids too a method of securely doing this.
I know some very long term QF techies who retired early simply because the fun went out of flying after 2001, and a big part was this stupid ruling.
J
All it takes for the forces of evil to rule the world, is for enough good men to do noting.
Its capitulating to the terrorist thugs, its us the good guys giving in. Geroge W and co all said we would not let them take our freedom. Seems they have. At least some of them.
Perhaps if enough tech crew petitioned their employers and DOTARS and Mr Howard this could change.
It just takes some determination and dare I say it "Common Sense"
If is was in your shoes, I reckon I would start the process.
In fact maybe get a high profile pilot on side to push the point in Canberra, even a set of rules, allowing kids, pax kids too a method of securely doing this.
I know some very long term QF techies who retired early simply because the fun went out of flying after 2001, and a big part was this stupid ruling.
J
All it takes for the forces of evil to rule the world, is for enough good men to do noting.
I dont believe DOTARS have the final say on this particular issue. It is up to the AIP (Aviation Industry Participant) to make a determination and include in their TSP (Transport Security Programme)
Most operators have the same policy but I dont think you will find a specific ruling in the ATSR regs.
Most operators have the same policy but I dont think you will find a specific ruling in the ATSR regs.
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Current Aviation Transport Security Regs:
(4) A person must not be allowed to enter the cockpit after the
aircraft has taken off unless:
(a) he or she is authorised to do so by the aircraft’s pilot in command or the aircraft’s operator and:
(i) is a member of the aircraft’s crew; or
(ii) is an employee of the aircraft’s operator; or
(iii) is authorised or required by the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 or the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998 to enter the cockpit; and
(b) he or she holds appropriate identification as a person referred to in paragraph (a).
(4) A person must not be allowed to enter the cockpit after the
aircraft has taken off unless:
(a) he or she is authorised to do so by the aircraft’s pilot in command or the aircraft’s operator and:
(i) is a member of the aircraft’s crew; or
(ii) is an employee of the aircraft’s operator; or
(iii) is authorised or required by the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 or the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998 to enter the cockpit; and
(b) he or she holds appropriate identification as a person referred to in paragraph (a).
Yeah well I'd like to know how this makes any sense.
While security screening is in process at a certain aerodrome in W.A., I am allowed to use the gate code to go to my GA aeroplane and load my luggage into it. I can also pre-flight it and do anything else that may need doing. However, before I depart, I must go BACK through the gate and proceed through security screening, having left ANYTHING I want IN the aircraft!
While security screening is in process at a certain aerodrome in W.A., I am allowed to use the gate code to go to my GA aeroplane and load my luggage into it. I can also pre-flight it and do anything else that may need doing. However, before I depart, I must go BACK through the gate and proceed through security screening, having left ANYTHING I want IN the aircraft!
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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While security screening is in process at a certain aerodrome in W.A., I am allowed to use the gate code to go to my GA aeroplane and load my luggage into it. I can also pre-flight it and do anything else that may need doing. However, before I depart, I must go BACK through the gate and proceed through security screening, having left ANYTHING I want IN the aircraft!
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say AerocatS2A. You know it, I know it, DOTARS knows it but won't openly admit it. Unfortunately because the industry consultation was a crock, it is now enshrined in legislation and probably difficult to change. Creampuff - can probably best explain the process required here.
Had DOTARS properly consulted across industry before bringing all this in, a lot of these anomolies would have been identified and more appropriate measures introduced.
As an aside, the cabin security requirements and weapons restrictions must be driven by the country or region in which the flight is operating. I flew Emirates between Peshawa and Dubai last December and was given a steel knife with my cuttlery. I recall similar practices between Johannesburg and Luanda a few years back also.
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Just to quote IJ
"I don't believe there would be an airline in the world where non-crew personnel are allowed up front any more"
Well close but not quite right. Some and I say SOME companies here (mainland Europe – not that funny English speaking island off the west coast) are realists.
A few weeks back my crew and I were positioning on another carrier, happened that I knew the skipper and asked the CSM to pass a note to him before takeoff.
Basically it said, “Sorry I missed your 50th Birthday Party, don’t F??k-up the landing.” A few minutes later I was invited to the cockpit and spent the rest of the flight there.
I did not work for the company or an affiliate, not in uniform, but did have my ID, I even asked if the company allowed it, he showed me the reference in the OM on his tablet!
So some sensibility is returning. However it probably wont happen in Asia or the UK ever again and definately not while the loonies are running the asylium in Oz.
"I don't believe there would be an airline in the world where non-crew personnel are allowed up front any more"
Well close but not quite right. Some and I say SOME companies here (mainland Europe – not that funny English speaking island off the west coast) are realists.
A few weeks back my crew and I were positioning on another carrier, happened that I knew the skipper and asked the CSM to pass a note to him before takeoff.
Basically it said, “Sorry I missed your 50th Birthday Party, don’t F??k-up the landing.” A few minutes later I was invited to the cockpit and spent the rest of the flight there.
I did not work for the company or an affiliate, not in uniform, but did have my ID, I even asked if the company allowed it, he showed me the reference in the OM on his tablet!
So some sensibility is returning. However it probably wont happen in Asia or the UK ever again and definately not while the loonies are running the asylium in Oz.
"a certain aerodrome" I think you will find it is all aerodromes where the aircraft apron is part of the security controlled area. Some aprons were large enough to allow a delineated area for non-screening of pilots or pax boarding GA aircraft. Just like at Perth airport where you can board your plane anywhere on the GA apron then merrily taxi amongst the big boys.
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"(4) A person must not be allowed to enter the cockpit after the aircraft has taken off unless:"
Hmmmm, I don't see anything there that prohibits anyone at all entering the cockpit before take-off and then remaining there during the flight ...
Hmmmm, I don't see anything there that prohibits anyone at all entering the cockpit before take-off and then remaining there during the flight ...
