Jetstar New Hire Pilots (AWAs)
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Jetstar New Hire Pilots (AWAs)
To All Pilots.
The meeting/roadshows around most bases is called for by the Jetstar Pilot Council (JPC) to inform all pilots of the companys intention to introduce AWA to all new hire Jetstar Pilots.
The JPC urges All pilots to make an effort to hear/educate themselves about what is about to happen and come along.
After our meeting we have invited the company to explain the situation directly to all Pilots and will be giving a presentation to sell YOU that AWA's won't effect YOU.
I hope this gives all Pilots the required info and motivation to come along if possible.
The meeting/roadshows around most bases is called for by the Jetstar Pilot Council (JPC) to inform all pilots of the companys intention to introduce AWA to all new hire Jetstar Pilots.
The JPC urges All pilots to make an effort to hear/educate themselves about what is about to happen and come along.
After our meeting we have invited the company to explain the situation directly to all Pilots and will be giving a presentation to sell YOU that AWA's won't effect YOU.
I hope this gives all Pilots the required info and motivation to come along if possible.
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AWA's won't effect YOU.
Of course they won't. Except when these new joiners are offered your positions with less conditions (if that is possible) during the next round of allocations. Maybe these AWA new joiners will be offered your new command positions too.
AWA'S WON'T AFFECT YOU - YEAH RIGHT!!!!!
Of course they won't. Except when these new joiners are offered your positions with less conditions (if that is possible) during the next round of allocations. Maybe these AWA new joiners will be offered your new command positions too.
AWA'S WON'T AFFECT YOU - YEAH RIGHT!!!!!
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Yes, the JPC will inform/educate you about what is going to happen, but will do absolutely nothing to try and resist/stop AWA's on new hires.
In fact, they will probably sell them out!
In fact, they will probably sell them out!
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why are AWA's a bad thing again?
Since leaving Qantas i have been working under an AWA, doing the same job..
im $200 a week better off at the base wage level, Annual leave is the same, sick leave is the same (its actually protected if you read the fine print on AWA's from the govt)
i work a 4 day week. (so i dont need to take leave to have a long weekend) all other conditions are the same. oh, except the 4% pay rises every year so far..
and every employee here is on an identical AWA.
under QF on an EBA...... never had a real pay rise in 10 yrs, 2 yrs of wage freezes, very unfriendly 7 day rotating roster/shift,all Union negotiated of course! all of which i had the joy of paying for!
from my personal experience in the Aviation game.... FuchK the unions!
Since leaving Qantas i have been working under an AWA, doing the same job..
im $200 a week better off at the base wage level, Annual leave is the same, sick leave is the same (its actually protected if you read the fine print on AWA's from the govt)
i work a 4 day week. (so i dont need to take leave to have a long weekend) all other conditions are the same. oh, except the 4% pay rises every year so far..
and every employee here is on an identical AWA.under QF on an EBA...... never had a real pay rise in 10 yrs, 2 yrs of wage freezes, very unfriendly 7 day rotating roster/shift,all Union negotiated of course! all of which i had the joy of paying for!
from my personal experience in the Aviation game.... FuchK the unions!
Interesting way the 'Qantas Group' is acting.
Let's see.... short of drivers for the jetconnect ops. Calling back mainline 73 FO's, who have taken leave of absence, to help with the shortage caused by guys going to nz to fix the jetconnect debacle. Mainline 330 blokes having long service and annual leave burned whilst they sit around twidling there thumbs. Short of 744 SOs because most are right on flight time limits for the year and there aint anyone else.
And they call it management.
Hope the JPC have done the research on this one!!!!!
Let's see.... short of drivers for the jetconnect ops. Calling back mainline 73 FO's, who have taken leave of absence, to help with the shortage caused by guys going to nz to fix the jetconnect debacle. Mainline 330 blokes having long service and annual leave burned whilst they sit around twidling there thumbs. Short of 744 SOs because most are right on flight time limits for the year and there aint anyone else.
And they call it management.
Hope the JPC have done the research on this one!!!!!
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I’m with Ultralight here. Whats wrong with AWA’s. Mine is working great.
With a wide body captain salary of $147,809 and “cruise FO” on $88,685.4 your EBA’s are awesome.
Ill pay $33,000 for that.
With a wide body captain salary of $147,809 and “cruise FO” on $88,685.4 your EBA’s are awesome.
Ill pay $33,000 for that.
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What's wrong with AWA's? Lol People are blinded by money and common sense has gone out the window, wow some people are better of with AWA's OF COURSE they are! There is a shortage of workers at the moment! The problem is not now, its when we face a recession and quite frankly you are STUFFED if you are in an AWA system when this happens. High unemployment means people will undercut YOUR AWA because they just want to put food on the table. I dont disagree that AWA's are a good thing personally for some people in some industries at the moment., goddamn it should be while Australia is riding the resources boom. Its not just the young ones these days, a damn lot of Australians are becoming the ME NOW , MONEY, generation, its a damn shame.
I would much rather be on a collective agrement on less pay, because in the long-term you will be better off. Awa's are the ultimate in divide and conquer and CEO's are grinning with pleasure, jsut look at them crowing on about the abolition of them haha, Its pretty damn obvious why, they have all the say and they dont want to lose it. Anyway Rant over, I don't have a problem with people that are on AWA's at all, my fear is the long term repurcussions that will affect fellow Australians working under them.
Anyway there is an easy way to banish them, just use your vote at this years election.
Rsull lol, exactly!
I would much rather be on a collective agrement on less pay, because in the long-term you will be better off. Awa's are the ultimate in divide and conquer and CEO's are grinning with pleasure, jsut look at them crowing on about the abolition of them haha, Its pretty damn obvious why, they have all the say and they dont want to lose it. Anyway Rant over, I don't have a problem with people that are on AWA's at all, my fear is the long term repurcussions that will affect fellow Australians working under them.
Anyway there is an easy way to banish them, just use your vote at this years election.
Rsull lol, exactly!
What is wrong with AWA's you ask. Let me tell you.
1. The contract can be cancelled by either party with 90 days written notice for no reason. The fall back conditions will be the appropriate industry award. In the case of one particular jet operator the award includes a drop of base salary from circa $125K down to 96K for Captains.
2. The employer is not abliged to offer the same negotiated conditions for new employees. In the case of one particular jet operator this has seen new starts offered an AWA with:
First Officers base salary cut from circa 75K to $61K
From this reduced salary a salary sacrifice of $15K over 2 years to cover some of the endorsement costs and
a 3 year/ $30K bond.
Together with no overtime for the first year and no consumer price indexing of base salary to name a few "alterations".
The behaviour by the management has included, but not been limited to:
Phoning new recruits the evening before their final simulator check and threatening to cancel the check if they do not sign the AWA. They all signed;
Cancelling the AWA of a current line pilot because they refused to sign a bonding clause. The result is a $15,000 pay drop onto the award as described above. Note that this behaviour IS NOT ILLEGAL, it was tested in court and within the guidelines of the new IR laws.
You may reflect on what is to come when the economy turns if this is what can be achieved in the current economic conditions.
1. The contract can be cancelled by either party with 90 days written notice for no reason. The fall back conditions will be the appropriate industry award. In the case of one particular jet operator the award includes a drop of base salary from circa $125K down to 96K for Captains.
2. The employer is not abliged to offer the same negotiated conditions for new employees. In the case of one particular jet operator this has seen new starts offered an AWA with:
First Officers base salary cut from circa 75K to $61K
From this reduced salary a salary sacrifice of $15K over 2 years to cover some of the endorsement costs and
a 3 year/ $30K bond.
Together with no overtime for the first year and no consumer price indexing of base salary to name a few "alterations".
The behaviour by the management has included, but not been limited to:
Phoning new recruits the evening before their final simulator check and threatening to cancel the check if they do not sign the AWA. They all signed;
Cancelling the AWA of a current line pilot because they refused to sign a bonding clause. The result is a $15,000 pay drop onto the award as described above. Note that this behaviour IS NOT ILLEGAL, it was tested in court and within the guidelines of the new IR laws.
You may reflect on what is to come when the economy turns if this is what can be achieved in the current economic conditions.
Last edited by illusion; 11th May 2007 at 18:54.
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It's not only going to be the Tech Crew, they are setting up AWAs for 787 Engineers in Jetstar. And as sure as night follows day they will try the same thing in Qantas.
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Simply Disgusting!!.
DM
DM
The irony and hypocrisy is astounding.
DM, can you vaguely remember in you not so distant past being critisised for accepting the disgusting pay and conditions offered by Jetstar?
And you now have the nerve to tell someone else that this is "disgusting"?
Sorry mate, but you have already prostituted yourself, and by doing so compromised any claim for the moral high ground.
This is a race to the bottom which YOU, DM, were well and truly involved in. Until such a time as YOU say to Jetstar "I WILL NOT ACCEPT THE SH1T CONDITIONS YOU ARE OFFERRING", you have no right to comment on someone else's race downwards.
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If I were a betting man and the $61K rumour was true...I would suggest that perhaps it refers to the rate for "Cruise" First Officers...ie Second Officers?
I could be wrong but I thought most recruiting between now and the end of the year was for CSO's.
Can anyone confirm this?
I could be wrong but I thought most recruiting between now and the end of the year was for CSO's.
Can anyone confirm this?
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It is silly to compare an AWA in some other job to what the JPC negotiated for their EBA.
The JPC negotiated the worst deal possible. They undercut every other airline wage by a good amount in a time when there was expansion in airlines. To say the JPC did a bad deal is like saying Stalin was just being a naughty boy.
The fact is that wages are increasing in all the other airlines. There is a pilot shortage. It is a great position to be in when negotiating a new wage deal.
The thing is who would be better at negotiating? One untrained individual, or a properly organised association.
Now because the JPC is so incredibly bad at representing their pilots, and because of the labour shortage AWAs are doing well in some areas it may well be that in this one case an individual could do better on an AWA than with a JPC negotiated EBA.
However you need to look to the long term. What will happen when there is a downturn, what will happen if there is a terrorist attack and tourism dies to a trickle? It would cause an oversupply of pilots for a year or so. It is then that the protection of a union and an EBA will be vital.
So if Jetstar ever gets some decent pilot representation, you would have to think that for a volatile industry like ours the long term stability of union negotiated EBAs has to have some merit.
The problem isn't that you may do better with an AWA, your real problem is that the JPC is just a crap pilot representative body.
The JPC negotiated the worst deal possible. They undercut every other airline wage by a good amount in a time when there was expansion in airlines. To say the JPC did a bad deal is like saying Stalin was just being a naughty boy.
The fact is that wages are increasing in all the other airlines. There is a pilot shortage. It is a great position to be in when negotiating a new wage deal.
The thing is who would be better at negotiating? One untrained individual, or a properly organised association.
Now because the JPC is so incredibly bad at representing their pilots, and because of the labour shortage AWAs are doing well in some areas it may well be that in this one case an individual could do better on an AWA than with a JPC negotiated EBA.
However you need to look to the long term. What will happen when there is a downturn, what will happen if there is a terrorist attack and tourism dies to a trickle? It would cause an oversupply of pilots for a year or so. It is then that the protection of a union and an EBA will be vital.
So if Jetstar ever gets some decent pilot representation, you would have to think that for a volatile industry like ours the long term stability of union negotiated EBAs has to have some merit.
The problem isn't that you may do better with an AWA, your real problem is that the JPC is just a crap pilot representative body.
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C'mon guys !! The JPC are great, just look at the MOU, an absolute corker for all Jet* pilots, and they are always there to help when company tries to underpay you and get you to work outside the EBA conditions, and the dozens of ex AN drivers that got commands out of seniority " 'cause we really needed that guys 6 months effo time on the 320 7 years ago "...........and hey look, was that a pig that just landed.............
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The Negotiator
From a managing side of things can initiating/renewing 500+ individual AWA’s be an easy matter? So hey, could these AWA’s all be the same but signed as each individual thereby killing any chance of a “collective” agreement??? Is it far from ring ring, “Excuse me Capt/FO WAH WAH we would like to see you for a minute………….”, “OH AH HUH but but but….” a slumped Capt/FO WAH WAH leaves the building after 15 years (or 6months) of service and no job – picture this when you are about to sign the thing.
IMO this is in no way being in agreement, enterprising or skilful, you aren’t even close to being on the same level ground or league – you ego may like to think that you are. The whole thing is like feeding chickens with grain, and we all go into self preservation mode to protect our jobs, no matter what it takes – great CRM huh.
IMO this is in no way being in agreement, enterprising or skilful, you aren’t even close to being on the same level ground or league – you ego may like to think that you are. The whole thing is like feeding chickens with grain, and we all go into self preservation mode to protect our jobs, no matter what it takes – great CRM huh.