Another Jetstar 'fiasco'??
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Looking into my Crystal Tiger Ball:
If Tiger has a few J*-style strandings, etc, Dixon might change the tune with QF catering for J* cockups, since Tiger doesn't have a local big brother to turn to.
In terms of negative publicity for J*:
I dont watch ACA/TT - have they been running stories on the state of J* yet? If not, I haven't seen many QF ads on TV of late, so what's the leverage? Mates in power?
edit: Hadn't heard Nine are doing a reality tv show on J* ...
Well, that eliminates any criticism coming from ACA!
If Tiger has a few J*-style strandings, etc, Dixon might change the tune with QF catering for J* cockups, since Tiger doesn't have a local big brother to turn to.
In terms of negative publicity for J*:
I dont watch ACA/TT - have they been running stories on the state of J* yet? If not, I haven't seen many QF ads on TV of late, so what's the leverage? Mates in power?
edit: Hadn't heard Nine are doing a reality tv show on J* ...
Well, that eliminates any criticism coming from ACA!
Last edited by Another Number; 17th Apr 2007 at 06:00.
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Soldier, that must have been some bad weather at SYD.
Now if you take off and get to top of climb and your FMS says you are going to miss your curfew, why continue on, was the nearest airport Avalon? Please explain?
Now if you take off and get to top of climb and your FMS says you are going to miss your curfew, why continue on, was the nearest airport Avalon? Please explain?
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The Problems are easier to solve than they think, people fly Jet scab knowing they are getting a cheap service, and the most common complaint from PAX is the lack of COMMUNICATION!!!!
if something goes wrong, and it always will... then simply TELL THE PAX WHATS GOING ON!!! simple...
if something goes wrong, and it always will... then simply TELL THE PAX WHATS GOING ON!!! simple...
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I have absolutelty no agrument with the need for communication in a delay situation.
Going back to the original HTI example, from being a "res" person in my time I can tell you there are enough bookings out there with little or no contact information. This makes it very difficult for any airline (even the untouchable Q) to get a 100% hit rate when calling out a delay. One of Australia's largest chains of (discount) travel agents is notorious amongst the industry for this. The problem made is more difficult when the decision to cancel is made in the middle of the night and you have skeleton reservations/ops staff to deal with the reaccommodation.
What gets me is Jetstar has a sniff of a disruption, the media is on to it, along with all the Jetstar bashers of pprune.
As stated in my previous post, I have being involved with or witnessed some appalling handled disruptions at other airlines. Incudling passengers being left for hours and hours with little advice and no offer of accommodation. Until the realisation in the wee small hours of the morning that maybe the pax need to be accommodated. And this from a "full-service" carrier.
Disruptions and delays are terrible and certainly cause no joy for anyone, passengers and frontline staff alike. And as many people in here have mentioned its how the situation is handled that makes the difference. No arguments from me at all.
I just find it intriguing distruption at Jetstar is for some reason far more newsworthy than distruption at Qantas, Virgin, or anyone else for that matter.
And yes, congratulations to Jetblue. The EU also has a set standard for passenger compensation in distruptions.
For the sake of transperancy for passengers of ALL AIRLINES in Australia something similar to the EU rules here in Oz would be a positive move.
Going back to the original HTI example, from being a "res" person in my time I can tell you there are enough bookings out there with little or no contact information. This makes it very difficult for any airline (even the untouchable Q) to get a 100% hit rate when calling out a delay. One of Australia's largest chains of (discount) travel agents is notorious amongst the industry for this. The problem made is more difficult when the decision to cancel is made in the middle of the night and you have skeleton reservations/ops staff to deal with the reaccommodation.
What gets me is Jetstar has a sniff of a disruption, the media is on to it, along with all the Jetstar bashers of pprune.
As stated in my previous post, I have being involved with or witnessed some appalling handled disruptions at other airlines. Incudling passengers being left for hours and hours with little advice and no offer of accommodation. Until the realisation in the wee small hours of the morning that maybe the pax need to be accommodated. And this from a "full-service" carrier.
Disruptions and delays are terrible and certainly cause no joy for anyone, passengers and frontline staff alike. And as many people in here have mentioned its how the situation is handled that makes the difference. No arguments from me at all.
I just find it intriguing distruption at Jetstar is for some reason far more newsworthy than distruption at Qantas, Virgin, or anyone else for that matter.
And yes, congratulations to Jetblue. The EU also has a set standard for passenger compensation in distruptions.
For the sake of transperancy for passengers of ALL AIRLINES in Australia something similar to the EU rules here in Oz would be a positive move.
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Another number...Who does SIA's catering in Australia? I'm curious because if Tiger has a problem they are not alone as they will probably have the back up of SIA just as Jetscar has the back up of QF.
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Now I might be a bit simplistic in my thinking here, so if someone can please put me straight...
If an A330 diverts into AVV due to missing the Sydney curfew, then presumably the a/c will have to position up to Sydney asap the next day to do its next scheduled run... so would it not make sense, rather than take an A320 (or two) off the domestic loop (so causing the knock-ons) and running a now-empty A330 back up to Sydney, to simply fly the diverted A330 - with pax - to Sydney to arrive when the curfew lifts at sparrow's the next morning?
Or would the absence of night-shift ground handlers at AVV have delayed the repositioning of the A330 until later in the day?
I'm sure that if the following had been put to a vote, the punters would've voted to stay on: "OK people, we've missed the Sydney curfew, so we can either all stay on the aircraft until first thing, take off and get to Sydney at 05.30am, or we can wait on the aircraft until we've found you all hotels (which may take until, say, 3am), bus you all to the hotels at 4am, let you sleep, bus you back at, say, 10am, fly you up to Sydney to get you there in time for lunch". (Note that I am not actually suggesting such things be put to a vote but as intelligent people I'm sure you understand what I'm saying here.)
It just strikes me that, on those rare but regular (two or three days per year) when Sydney gets fogged in, other carriers manage to get back on-track reasonably smoothly... what's different with the 'star?
If an A330 diverts into AVV due to missing the Sydney curfew, then presumably the a/c will have to position up to Sydney asap the next day to do its next scheduled run... so would it not make sense, rather than take an A320 (or two) off the domestic loop (so causing the knock-ons) and running a now-empty A330 back up to Sydney, to simply fly the diverted A330 - with pax - to Sydney to arrive when the curfew lifts at sparrow's the next morning?
Or would the absence of night-shift ground handlers at AVV have delayed the repositioning of the A330 until later in the day?
I'm sure that if the following had been put to a vote, the punters would've voted to stay on: "OK people, we've missed the Sydney curfew, so we can either all stay on the aircraft until first thing, take off and get to Sydney at 05.30am, or we can wait on the aircraft until we've found you all hotels (which may take until, say, 3am), bus you all to the hotels at 4am, let you sleep, bus you back at, say, 10am, fly you up to Sydney to get you there in time for lunch". (Note that I am not actually suggesting such things be put to a vote but as intelligent people I'm sure you understand what I'm saying here.)
It just strikes me that, on those rare but regular (two or three days per year) when Sydney gets fogged in, other carriers manage to get back on-track reasonably smoothly... what's different with the 'star?
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The benefit other airlines have with "getting back on track" in a fog situ at SYD is the ability to cancel flights. QF and DJ operate high frequency, up to every 30 mins on some routes, so cancel a couple of MELs or BNEs, redistribute the pax and hey presto. QF also has a lot more slack in its schedules. DJ and JQ have it harder consistently running 30 mins turns with little aircraft downtime.
For JQ the ability to cancel flights is a bit harder though lack of frequency. In many cases the flight in question is the only one, or one of very few in the day ie no where to reaccommodate the pax without making things a bit messy (eg the HTI situ). For JQ, only SYD-OOL realistically has the frequency to sustain cancellations.
For JQ the ability to cancel flights is a bit harder though lack of frequency. In many cases the flight in question is the only one, or one of very few in the day ie no where to reaccommodate the pax without making things a bit messy (eg the HTI situ). For JQ, only SYD-OOL realistically has the frequency to sustain cancellations.
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Market forces will eventually prevail.
Either irate passengers vote with their feet, or else look at the fare, and think better of leaving.
If SLF wants the security of an overnight hotel when things go pear-shaped, the airlines will eventually grasp this essential service item and price it into the ticket. What would it take- a couple of dollars a ticket to fund a passenger inconvenience reserve? (Someone fetch me an actuary).
VHCU
Either irate passengers vote with their feet, or else look at the fare, and think better of leaving.
If SLF wants the security of an overnight hotel when things go pear-shaped, the airlines will eventually grasp this essential service item and price it into the ticket. What would it take- a couple of dollars a ticket to fund a passenger inconvenience reserve? (Someone fetch me an actuary).
VHCU
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Taildragger,
Sort of can see where you are going with your post, but with the interests of keeping some facts straight - something sadly lacking in a majority of posts written about J* - J* does not operate A330s into or out of AVV.
Cheers
Sort of can see where you are going with your post, but with the interests of keeping some facts straight - something sadly lacking in a majority of posts written about J* - J* does not operate A330s into or out of AVV.
Cheers
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Condition Lever,
My understanding (from the press articles) was that an A330 operating Honolulu-to-Sydney diverted into Avalon after it was figured out that it would miss the YSSY curfew. The pax were then accommodated and later moved to Sydney using JQ A320 equipment, which meant taking an A320 off domestic rotations, causing scheduling ripples on the domestic network.
What is unsaid in the press, is that at some stage, as the A330 was scheduled to operate into Sydney, presumably it would've been scheduled to subsequently operate out of Sydney again, so it (the A330) would've had to have been positioned back to Sydney from Avalon. So my original query stands.
My understanding (from the press articles) was that an A330 operating Honolulu-to-Sydney diverted into Avalon after it was figured out that it would miss the YSSY curfew. The pax were then accommodated and later moved to Sydney using JQ A320 equipment, which meant taking an A320 off domestic rotations, causing scheduling ripples on the domestic network.
What is unsaid in the press, is that at some stage, as the A330 was scheduled to operate into Sydney, presumably it would've been scheduled to subsequently operate out of Sydney again, so it (the A330) would've had to have been positioned back to Sydney from Avalon. So my original query stands.
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My understanding (from the press articles) was that an A330 operating Honolulu-to-Sydney diverted into Avalon after it was figured out that it would miss the YSSY curfew.
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Apparently another two J* A330 captains have resigned. One or both of them were involved in these incidents, unrelated to their resignations I am sure.
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This is usually covered off by the company involved requesting a dispensation from the Department. Usually they seem to be readily available.
The question should be was an exemption requested, or why was it not granted?
The question should be was an exemption requested, or why was it not granted?
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Not sure why the A330 was mentioned in the AVV diversion as the aircraft was an A320. It may have sounded like it said A330, but the article said the delays came after the HNL debarcle. Re-read it and it is A320 as it was ops HTI etc
As for the Jetblue email, it is great the sent that to their customers, but lets put it into perspecitive - that email was in response to over 5 days of cancellations. THe JQ one only affected a couple of hundred people.
As for the Jetblue email, it is great the sent that to their customers, but lets put it into perspecitive - that email was in response to over 5 days of cancellations. THe JQ one only affected a couple of hundred people.
Last edited by ANstar; 18th Apr 2007 at 01:40. Reason: added articel confusion.
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As for the Jetblue email, it is great they sent that to their customers, but lets put it into perspective - that email was in response to over 5 days of cancellations. The JQ one only affected a couple of hundred people.
In contrast, SW is the head of defensive statements at J* and I've never heard him admit they've ever put a foot wrong. His attitude always seems to be that it's the punter's fault because they have excessively high expectations.
And for the price, perhaps they have.
Price. Speed. Service. Pick the two that matter most...
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--from airbusthreetwenty--
"So you say the cabin crew were locked in the flight deck with the tech crew... Would have been a little tight.. 'eh?"
---well yeh- from what i can recall -i myself was very amazed that they could fit in the flight deck considering the size of some of the flight attenants that were on that flight--
"So you say the cabin crew were locked in the flight deck with the tech crew... Would have been a little tight.. 'eh?"
---well yeh- from what i can recall -i myself was very amazed that they could fit in the flight deck considering the size of some of the flight attenants that were on that flight--
