Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MAM & Dom/Reg FAAA

Old 22nd Apr 2007, 09:21
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The diiference between the casuals in Long Haul some time ago, and the MAM casuals in short haul now are that the LH casuals were part of the LONG HAUL EBA. Same conditions and rates of pay. Only difference being that they were genuine casuals.

In short haul the C scale casuals are being used as a substitute full time work force. It's totally immoral.

I understand the plight of the casuals, and i am aware that many of them have contacted their own union (SH FAAA ) and made their displeasure known.

I think that we ALL have a responsibility to ensure that casuals are not used to undermine full time employment and full time employees.

I think that casuals have their uses in peaks and troughs but not as a substitute full time work force.

The short haul faaa cannot regulate the numbers of casuals now its too late under the current laws. But a vote for RUDD will at least change the laws back a little to perhaps they can. and also allow the LH FAAA to keep a lid on the use of overseas based crew.

As for the papers and the so called facts that they have printed are yet to be proven but it does make interesting reading at the moment
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Old 22nd Apr 2007, 10:03
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thanks again for posting peg. in consideration of the last few posts and i dont know how but maybe you could help casuals so they in turn can help you at long haul and protect us at short haul..cause the casual work force cant help you to help them and us.....thanks gigs ps given posts and facts the reading is far from interesting its dam upsetting!
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Old 22nd Apr 2007, 10:38
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FA Lament

I would like some SOB(s)to be held accountable for this bloody fiasco...even if it is "moot".
I had my life and my family`s organized around what I thought were stable future earnings.
I am in my mid forties with three kids and a mortgage.Trying to come up with alternatives to something that I have been doing for(well) for eighteen years is not easy.
The history of Qantas Cabin Crew is littered with Union mistakes ineptitude and personal agendas...the swine running MAM being one.
I will survive but it wont be without some angst.
If there is "Karma" I hope it takes care of contemptible bastards.
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Old 22nd Apr 2007, 11:57
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hiccup you dont understand my post re. free feserve. invitation, if you wish i can articulate myself just as an industrial relations barrister would. you can then take this info to youre corp solicitor and comment, be aware that in this public forum you need be deadly accurate ,go for it gigs ps maybe at least then we all can understand....try the spin opion some kids buy it but be aware of youre CHOICE here.
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Old 22nd Apr 2007, 12:07
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go for it babes i mean person good luc!
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Old 22nd Apr 2007, 21:17
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I have just got home and finally got to read the article in Saturday’s SMH and I’m with happicampa and don’t understand all the fuss.

Contract “C” casuals get 3 days off per month which I think is very charitable since 2 would have been more than adequate.The fact that they have to be on call for the rest is perfectly ok.

Also a non- profit company with union directors that makes nearly half a mill by supplying cheap labour makes perfect sense.

The only thing I want to know is how can I get into the action here.There seems to be a ready market for supplying cheap labour and the only drawback is that I have to be a union official first.I’ll have to get my resume over to the union as soon as possible.

Of course I would much prefer to set up a company to supply cheap ,casual directors to Australian company’s who would readily agree to anything that the CEO would suggest or maybe casual politicians who would agree to what large company’s want.That would go way beyond “COSY’ wouldn’t it.

ps ...Is it just me or does anyone else have problems understanding gigs?

Perhaps this is a result of the latest generation's predilection for using sms texting as their preferred method of communication.....Ahh the digital age with the loss of written correspondence and hand writing without a spell checker as a form of communication...
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Old 22nd Apr 2007, 22:56
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bravo good witty post lowerlobe. yes h/campa also has a problem understanding me or anyone else including you who knocks the cult! cheers and you even said my name woo hoo! gigs
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 00:03
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Red face GIGS Quote

"if you wish i can articulate myself just as an industrial relations barrister would."

ROFLMAO

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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 01:04
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sorry big boy i meant to write tickle, ah stand by, gear up and fly away home big fella. thanks for the funny post. gigs
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 04:02
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gigs, do you mind me asking if you are on any substance?

Anyway,back to the matter at hand.Perhaps if there are a number of MAM casuals and S/H crew who are unhappy with their representation they might consider joining the FAAA L/H.

If there comes a point where the S/H FAAA does not have sufficient members then they become irrelevant !
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 04:26
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My understanding Mr Lowerlobe is that you're Short Haul colleagues are not able to join the Long Haul FAAA so this is not at this time an option. Yes i am a person of substance just as concerned as you are about the way working conditions for Australians is heading in flying especially. Ironic we share the same concerns yet you choose to mock. Thankyou for you're concern. gigs
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 05:03
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Pseudo Gigs

If you read some of Gigs' posts you will fast come to the conclusion that he/she is either schizophrenic or occasionally Gigs' three year old has a crack at using mummy/daddy's computer with interesting results
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 05:35
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if you read some of gigs posts and some others here you may conclude PROPAGANDA...........ive a dodgy old key board and no secretary.....what i write should not be too hard to read given the content ,which leads me to direct attention to the above.......you shall get no more bites from me in relation to my posts....dont like it ,cant read it,dont waste the energy.. happy flying
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 05:56
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Gigs, the content of your posts aside, it's also the lack of punctuation that makes them difficult to read.
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 12:28
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It is always hard to understand something that you don't have much interest in in the first instance. MAM didn't hires us to tickle anyway.

Four classes started in last tow weeks in Syd, one in Mel. Roughly 15 a class, how many VR spots?

Back to free reserve, the point is that you lot are missing is that FAAA allow this in our EBA2 part 5.4. . We used to have the option pre2006 that by 2000hrs if the next day was still just AV crewing had to make us NREQ/UNAV. Then they worked out that casuals can't tickle and will bend over backwards if it means they are in with a chance of going "permanent".

Our EBA lets us become slaves

On union membership, l/h faaa won't take us, it is a boys club thing.Something my wife says is rampent in all industries. SO my guess is that it won't change, maybe we'll start our own association?
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 13:43
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Who should get on with what ?

Pegasus you said

a word of advice to FAAA officials of both divisions. Get of the cross we need the wood!!!!!!

get on with the job of protecting ALL flight attendants job security. YOUR loyalties should be with the members not the current employess or officials. You are all replaceable and no one is indespensible.

Get your acts together fast OUR livelihoods depend on it. We will not be patient forever

Surely this is directed solely at your union? Is it not your union that continues to get sidetracked by the infantile lure of tacky journalism ? Not only are they content to cash in on their "frequent quoters program" with the SMH and take advantage of their "free story print on a slow news day" as a reward for their umpteenth quote with the fairfax group, but also think nothing of toying with the hopes of a group of workers by giving them the advice that “media exposure” would help. All the while knowingly using them as pawns in a game of cheap publicity and mud slinging.

Still not content they waste more time, effort and energy reproducing this “trashy rag” reporting on their website under the guise of membership information..... all while rome burns, as you so aptly put it.

Meanwhile over at sh faaa they put out the following advice their THEIR members 5 days ago.

The need for solidarity amongst our membership is not only critical for the challenges of the Qantas sale, but in dealing with the disgraceful Work Choices Legislation, introduced by the Federal Government.

Therefore rather than rumours, gossip, good or otherwise, we strongly recommend all members read the front page article of the Sydney Morning Herald, Tuesday April 17, 2007 on “How AWA’s Strip Workers Rights”. This sobering account should reinforce for all concerned, the need for solidarity, moving together and protection of Enterprise Agreements.

Pegasus I think you were trying for the same message but they said it better, then again, they usually do.

The exhibited behaviour of the two divisions over the last couple of days should leave no flight attendant in doubt on who is actually “getting on with the job of protecting ALL flight attendants’ job security” and who is running the rhetoric.
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 14:26
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um, so does that mean free standby is ok??????????with the s/h faaa that is! you jd or dm cant explian youself that free reserve is ok so given the facts one may ask WHATS IN IT FOR THE FAAA! again i invite you to ask me to answer any questions you may have but all you can ask is "do i drink"?

Last edited by gigs; 23rd Apr 2007 at 17:03.
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 21:27
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Pegasus...

Obviously you are right and happi is one of the elected officials in the Judas division.

happi..How many days do you get off per roster?

I bet it's more than 3........

This reminds me of one of those TV shows on nature and there was a nest of some kind of creature out in the wild somewhere.

They found that given half a chance one of the young eats the rest of it's siblings because it's not content just to survive but it wants all the food the parents can supply....very cosy wouldn't you say?

Quote from happi "The exhibited behaviour of the two divisions over the last couple of days should leave no flight attendant in doubt on who is actually “getting on with the job of protecting ALL flight attendants’ job security” and who is running the rhetoric"...

Which is really a sick joke because it's obvious who are being protected because all you have to do is ask any casual,L/H or VB crew and they will tell you it's not them.
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 21:48
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Happi Campa,

I think it would be fair to say that the recent media spotlight on some of the activities of the domestic regional FAAA has brought you out of your hole in the ground.

Your first and only post has been to attack the long haul FAAA and to defend the actions of the short haul FAAA. As an employee of the union your actions are laudable and loyal.

Unfortunately, your views of the long haul division have not been mirrored by any facts. The LH division deal with issues on a day to day basis. They have never had an EBA rejected. Let alone by 90%. the domestic arm of the FAAA has now had two proposed EBAs rejected. That smacks of couple of things. one of them gross incompetence and the other completely out of touch with the members.

The long haul flight attendants still enjoy the best conditions of any of the crew in the australian flying community. THAT and that alone is the problem.

They are the most expensive. The only way forward is for us to become more comparable in cost to others in the Qantas group. The challenge is doing that whilst still keeping core conditions that are important.

I guess we could do that many ways as a group. I do not favour the one that means that we sell out our collegues in short haul or do the dirty in negotiations with the DOM Reg FAAA. I dont think its the way LOng Haul crew have ever behaved nor would we want out union to behave that way. Long Haul crew and their officials have enormous challenges and like many in the union movement have used the media to make the rest of Australia aware of what work choices is producing.

Quite frankly i think that the media is an efective tool in educating Australia about work choices. I am sure it doesnt make unions officials popular with Airline execs, but i am sure that without the assistance of the media only a very small percentage of australia will know whats going on.

Lowerlobe has suggested that our Union should open its books to anyone from MAM that wants to join or short haul members. I think thats an interesting proposal. I think that the Long Haul FAAA has three qualified Lawyers on the staff who earn considerably less than some of the short haul staff with considerably less experience and qualifications.

I think that our priority as members should be ensuring that we employ fully qualified people to deal with the complexity of workchoices and a skills audit would be a good thing is a new combined union.

If Happi Campa is reflective of the prejudices of the short haul officials and staff against the LH division then this is probably the reason that they cant get back together.

I have only heard positive things from the LH FAAA and its members about one union combined. It seems the problems are the short haul end.

Perhaps if it doesnt go ahead that each division should just open up the books to whoever wants to join which division and see who survives. for my money i would rather be represented by three qualified lawyers than an ex receptionist who cant get an EBA voted up by more than 10% of the members
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Old 23rd Apr 2007, 22:00
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Pegasus...

Perhaps we should call S/H the omelette division as well because after 90% of VB crew told their union where to go there would have been a lot of union officials with egg on their faces.

It's hard to understand how a union could get it so wrong and try to push something so unpopular with crew.Then again maybe they wanted another cosy relationship.

Pegasus,If there is a tacit agreement between the two divisions about poaching members I think you can safely say theat it is null and void because of the behaviour of the judas/omelette division.

However ,I think there is nothing more to say in regards to the other group especially as we approach ANZAC day.

Pegasus,do you know of any changes to the pub in LHR?

Last edited by lowerlobe; 23rd Apr 2007 at 22:31. Reason: addendum
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