A phonecall was made...
It has always amazed me why every operator in Australia thinks they can defy simple economic principles. There is a shortage of labour in the mining industry as a result the wages go up and up to the point where it actually affects economic stability in small towns.
Aviation is heading in the direction of a shortage of pilots. Partially brought on by the high cost of entering the industry and the appalling level of pay and conditions on offer.
Now why don't these guys up the ante?? Just start paying more money!!!! Yes you may make less profit. Yes you might have to put up prices however that is a fact of life. You cannot seriously expect to pay people; some who have spent in excess of $80 000, are tertiary qualified, have anything from 3 to 10 years experience in the industry $44 000 a year, then expect them to hang around for years when they can earn $90 000+ in another airline. It is totally illogical.
While REX is probably one of the better places to work and don't charge for endorsements and the like, I believe that Airlines in general in this country will begin to start reaping what they have sown over the past 7 years. If they have a pilot shortage and can't crew aircraft then it is ultimately their own doing. If they looked after people well then they will find that crewing won't be a problem. A lesson that Skippers is currently experiencing at this very moment.
Aviation is heading in the direction of a shortage of pilots. Partially brought on by the high cost of entering the industry and the appalling level of pay and conditions on offer.
Now why don't these guys up the ante?? Just start paying more money!!!! Yes you may make less profit. Yes you might have to put up prices however that is a fact of life. You cannot seriously expect to pay people; some who have spent in excess of $80 000, are tertiary qualified, have anything from 3 to 10 years experience in the industry $44 000 a year, then expect them to hang around for years when they can earn $90 000+ in another airline. It is totally illogical.
While REX is probably one of the better places to work and don't charge for endorsements and the like, I believe that Airlines in general in this country will begin to start reaping what they have sown over the past 7 years. If they have a pilot shortage and can't crew aircraft then it is ultimately their own doing. If they looked after people well then they will find that crewing won't be a problem. A lesson that Skippers is currently experiencing at this very moment.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 25th Mar 2007 at 15:31.
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Unfortunately PAF the australian labour market for pilots is not a lassaiz faire market. It is a truely distorted market because you have an employer Qantas Group who is by any measure ,almost monopolistic in the employer stakes, so they end up with a distorted say in the equation.
Secondly, due to WorkChoices and the ability to scrap any useful and meaningful redundancy provisions you might just end up with an increase in pay come that will just as quickly evaporate come the inevitable downturn.
Secondly, due to WorkChoices and the ability to scrap any useful and meaningful redundancy provisions you might just end up with an increase in pay come that will just as quickly evaporate come the inevitable downturn.
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.05
The main reason those 2 pillars of Australian aviation are not around is because they were stripped.
Every time TN made a good profit, and evcen when they did not the Government would rip a huge dividend out of them.
Likewise when Abeles and Murdoch bought into Ansett the sold off most of the owned aeroplanes and leased the new 737.767 fleet.
Government stupidity and entrepeneurial greed account for most of the ills of the legacy carrier.
The ball is in our court, and I hink the Rat may just be realising that.
Best all
EWL
The main reason those 2 pillars of Australian aviation are not around is because they were stripped.
Every time TN made a good profit, and evcen when they did not the Government would rip a huge dividend out of them.
Likewise when Abeles and Murdoch bought into Ansett the sold off most of the owned aeroplanes and leased the new 737.767 fleet.
Government stupidity and entrepeneurial greed account for most of the ills of the legacy carrier.
The ball is in our court, and I hink the Rat may just be realising that.
Best all
EWL
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Its not rocket science.
The demand for base metals is outstripping supply, common sense then dictates that prices will rise, which they have and will continue to do.
The travelling public have to pay for the increased cost of production/demand just as the Chinese are paying for metals.
Same principle in aviation, increasing population, less time, higher petrol prices etc. Offsetting this is aircraft efficiency, sardine can seating, reduction in number of flight attendants and crew costs.
Airlines such as Jet* and co then subsidise their simulators by allowing Alteon to charge double what it costs to do an endorsement.
Regional airlines need to start treating their crews as the professional individuals that they advertise and check them as instead of expecting them to be CSO's, orderlies and baggage handlers.
The cost of flying to the public has increased on average over the last few years (eg VB) while the cost to provide each seat has decreased, the result is more profits to the airlines.
Taking into account inflation, tax on tax, government fees and charges to subsidise the CASA/Airservices monster that is designed to help itself first and effectively Pilot's have been going backwards at about 3% per annum.
We have about ten years of receding pay and conditions to recover, lets not balls this up, its our turn to follow the greedy example that has been set by our leaders.
The only people making any money out of this current environment are bottom dwellers that make up the tiers of parasites that follow the example set by such leaders as Dicko by applying the principle of get as much as you can as quick as you can and then either sell it or get out.
The Peter Abeles principle is alive and well.
Its akin to Costello having a go at Rudd over the Future Fund while he "invests" 40% of it in subsidising Telstra, yep, thats a good future investment.
Rant over.... "NURSE - more of the red pills please"
Ahab
The demand for base metals is outstripping supply, common sense then dictates that prices will rise, which they have and will continue to do.
The travelling public have to pay for the increased cost of production/demand just as the Chinese are paying for metals.
Same principle in aviation, increasing population, less time, higher petrol prices etc. Offsetting this is aircraft efficiency, sardine can seating, reduction in number of flight attendants and crew costs.
Airlines such as Jet* and co then subsidise their simulators by allowing Alteon to charge double what it costs to do an endorsement.
Regional airlines need to start treating their crews as the professional individuals that they advertise and check them as instead of expecting them to be CSO's, orderlies and baggage handlers.
The cost of flying to the public has increased on average over the last few years (eg VB) while the cost to provide each seat has decreased, the result is more profits to the airlines.
Taking into account inflation, tax on tax, government fees and charges to subsidise the CASA/Airservices monster that is designed to help itself first and effectively Pilot's have been going backwards at about 3% per annum.
We have about ten years of receding pay and conditions to recover, lets not balls this up, its our turn to follow the greedy example that has been set by our leaders.
The only people making any money out of this current environment are bottom dwellers that make up the tiers of parasites that follow the example set by such leaders as Dicko by applying the principle of get as much as you can as quick as you can and then either sell it or get out.
The Peter Abeles principle is alive and well.
Its akin to Costello having a go at Rudd over the Future Fund while he "invests" 40% of it in subsidising Telstra, yep, thats a good future investment.
Rant over.... "NURSE - more of the red pills please"
Ahab
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What I find VERY frightening especially for aviation is the prospect of a re-elected Howard.An election win for Howard would be viewed by him as a vindication of his IR laws and probably justification for more divisive policies.
A vote for Johnny is a vote for more of the same from Darth as well as the potential new owners of QF and one star and the ramifications in our jobs.
A vote for Johnny is a vote for more of the same from Darth as well as the potential new owners of QF and one star and the ramifications in our jobs.
Thread Starter
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Yeh that's all well and good but what's it got to do with a phonecall and how many people have left rex.
Start up a new thread called 'Howard Government and Workchoices' if you want to chat about that?
Start up a new thread called 'Howard Government and Workchoices' if you want to chat about that?
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From what I'm told both from REX guys and from Virgin and J* guys, Rex hasn't lost that many pilots yet but in the next year or so they will.
I don't think Rex would benefit much from increasing pay rates unless they can match the airlines. I think the only way Rex is going to hold onto pilots is to offer them a better lifestyle ie. less work hours per week, more nights at home and more weekends off etc. etc.
I don't think Rex would benefit much from increasing pay rates unless they can match the airlines. I think the only way Rex is going to hold onto pilots is to offer them a better lifestyle ie. less work hours per week, more nights at home and more weekends off etc. etc.
Whispering "T" Jet
You are so right areal. A good lifestyle can sometimes offset a lower wage.
Unfortunately, the airlines today seem to want it both ways with low remuneration and poor lifestyle. Maybe things will change now there is a shortage of qualified pilots.
Unfortunately, the airlines today seem to want it both ways with low remuneration and poor lifestyle. Maybe things will change now there is a shortage of qualified pilots.
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Flybe
On that note, have you all seen the latest advertising from Flybe in Flight International?? A couple of editions ago there was even a pullout guide!!
Read the language of the advertising and it will put a smile on your face.
They even tout potential for part time work!!!!
Then the good stuff is the salary is quoted at 95K pound for TRE or 85K pound for line Capt. This for just flying Q400s and 145 jets. Now of course i dont have an idea what they are like to work for but surely a great sign for the industry and maybe REX should take note. Work-Lifestyle balance in regionals will attract and keep a good number of jocks, but willl they ever learn?????
Read the language of the advertising and it will put a smile on your face.
They even tout potential for part time work!!!!
Then the good stuff is the salary is quoted at 95K pound for TRE or 85K pound for line Capt. This for just flying Q400s and 145 jets. Now of course i dont have an idea what they are like to work for but surely a great sign for the industry and maybe REX should take note. Work-Lifestyle balance in regionals will attract and keep a good number of jocks, but willl they ever learn?????
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If I could get a turbo prop job where I had at least every second weekend off and earning 70-80K I'd go for it!
where would I go for THAT job ?
Evertonian
Well, the CEO of Rex should know that ambition will always push people from props to jets so...I suggest that Rex gets a bunch of CRJ's and......
Market Forces
When I went for an interview with the Director of Flight Operations (DFO) at CX many years ago, he said that he had just had a phone call from my RAAF Chief of Airstaff (CAS).
The Director said that the CAS had asked him to stop poaching "his" pilots. I asked the DFO what his response was. The DFO said that he told the CAS that if he paid his pilots what they were worth that he wouldn't have a problem...and a very good afternoon to you, sir!
In the long run, nothing changes. Business runs on the principle of Supply and Demand. Your union will help smooth out some of the bumps along the way and help you when you get into trouble.
However, never forget that market forces will always rule via supply and demand when it's all said and done.
Good luck and don't waste any opportunities!
The Director said that the CAS had asked him to stop poaching "his" pilots. I asked the DFO what his response was. The DFO said that he told the CAS that if he paid his pilots what they were worth that he wouldn't have a problem...and a very good afternoon to you, sir!
In the long run, nothing changes. Business runs on the principle of Supply and Demand. Your union will help smooth out some of the bumps along the way and help you when you get into trouble.
However, never forget that market forces will always rule via supply and demand when it's all said and done.
Good luck and don't waste any opportunities!
Back in the Kendell days a certain asshole who was involved in hiring in Adelaide would call an interviewee's present employer and let them know you were being considered or interviewed. Great way to put a hold on any further training with your present employer if you didn't get the KD gig.
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Ah yes! Unions. When it's tough getting work, the call for a union is strong. Band together. Safety in numbers and all that sort of thing. When the job market gets to be a feeding frenzy, the last thing on pilots' minds will be a union. When you can walk across the aerodrome and get a better offer and when pilots will be giving less than one day's notice, I wonder how important the union will be.
