RAAF Hercules in Emergency Landing
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAAAAAAAGH!
Lowerlobe,
You raise the question that other/another poster(s) are assuming that cabin crew are dumb/stupid/silly. Well frankly, no, the statement, the way I read it is that in another's opinion you may not have the experience or knowledge to make comments on this topic in the areas you are.
For my part I'm guessing that the media may have been in situ at the field already,(having read that the Herc blasted off from there with the PM on board).
Lowerlobe,
You raise the question that other/another poster(s) are assuming that cabin crew are dumb/stupid/silly. Well frankly, no, the statement, the way I read it is that in another's opinion you may not have the experience or knowledge to make comments on this topic in the areas you are.
For my part I'm guessing that the media may have been in situ at the field already,(having read that the Herc blasted off from there with the PM on board).
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,966
Received 92 Likes
on
53 Posts
A qualification; I am not now, nor ever have been a member of the Australian Armed Forces. However, over the years I have been associated on occasions, and /or worked in other areas with a few former members of the Australian SAS.
One impression that I have from those occasions is most vivid.
Any suggestion that any member of the SAS would allow themselves to be used in any sort of PR stunt as may possibly be have been even slightly alluded to in some previous posts is absurd, ridiculous and indeed would be deemed offensive!
Anyone suggesting otherwise would be IMHO 'playing with fire.'
One impression that I have from those occasions is most vivid.
Any suggestion that any member of the SAS would allow themselves to be used in any sort of PR stunt as may possibly be have been even slightly alluded to in some previous posts is absurd, ridiculous and indeed would be deemed offensive!
Anyone suggesting otherwise would be IMHO 'playing with fire.'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scotty, no mention of tail gunner, merely gunner.
Must be a RAAF thing. One of the military services in which I served referred to them as planes all the time. That ranged from single engine put puts, to fire exhausting heavy metal. Even had people whose title was "Plane Captain" and it wasn't the guy who sat in the front seat. They marched to a different beat obviously, very little is ever cast in stone. 
punishments have been administered to those of military beginnings for referring to an aircraft as a plane
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to return to this topic, which has already been done to death.
However, I thought it was worth posting this excerpt from The Australian's Media section today - written by the newspaper's political editor Dennis Shanahan, who was there...
You don't say.
There we go - hope that satisfies a few doubting Thomases.
SW
However, I thought it was worth posting this excerpt from The Australian's Media section today - written by the newspaper's political editor Dennis Shanahan, who was there...
It was a highly sensitive issue for media organisations and was to result in a dramatic air emergency for Mr Howard and nonsensical conspiracy theories about media management.
As the journalists were being told of the secret trip, Fairfax and News Limited managements were drafting a demand to the Prime Minister that he buy a big enough jet to include the media on all his overseas travel.
Concerned by the death of one journalist and the serious injury of another while they covered Alexander Downer's visit to Indonesia, the newspaper companies were putting extraordinary demands to Howard.
As well, the media coverage of an emergency landing in Iraq involving Mr Howard became the subject of an absurd conspiracy theory on websites that was picked up by Channel 7's Weekend Sunrise program and talkback radio.
......As the Hercules climbed rapidly, the smoke thickened in the back of the plane and the fumes intensified. The pilot declared a PAN - possible assistance necessary - emergency, one step down from a mayday call, banked the huge aircraft and headed back to the runway. The SAS troops, officials and media had to remove their helmets and put on emergency plastic hoods with five minutes of oxygen. The journalists had been briefed the day before on the use of the gas hoods as well as gasmasks for Baghdad because of recent chlorine gas attacks.
The media was also told the security detachment's prime objective was to protect the Prime Minister in case of emergency or attack. When the plane shuddered to a halt on the Tallil tarmac, everyone responded immediately and professionally. SAS troops poured out the back door and set up a security perimeter, Channel 9's Jessop ran on to the tarmac to film the incident while Channel 7's Hunt filmed the Prime Minister coming from the cockpit at the front.
They acted instinctively and independently, with Hunt not even realising where Jessop was when he left the plane. The other media got off the plane before Howard because they were closer to the exit. A ring of SAS soldiers formed closer to the Prime Minister as his personal guard rushed him from the plane. Nobody knew the cause of the smoke, what might happen or what threat there could have been outside the aircraft.
When at a safe distance along the tarmac the journalists interviewed Howard and Houston, who played down the threat and praised the crew. After about 20 minutes, when security prevented mobile phone calls for fear of "bad people" monitoring the airwaves and discovering what had happened, the trip to Baghdad resumed on a second aircraft.
Reports, footage and audio of the emergency were made public in Australia after the original secrecy deadline passed.
Conspiracy theories immediately sprang up on websites,
As the journalists were being told of the secret trip, Fairfax and News Limited managements were drafting a demand to the Prime Minister that he buy a big enough jet to include the media on all his overseas travel.
Concerned by the death of one journalist and the serious injury of another while they covered Alexander Downer's visit to Indonesia, the newspaper companies were putting extraordinary demands to Howard.
As well, the media coverage of an emergency landing in Iraq involving Mr Howard became the subject of an absurd conspiracy theory on websites that was picked up by Channel 7's Weekend Sunrise program and talkback radio.
......As the Hercules climbed rapidly, the smoke thickened in the back of the plane and the fumes intensified. The pilot declared a PAN - possible assistance necessary - emergency, one step down from a mayday call, banked the huge aircraft and headed back to the runway. The SAS troops, officials and media had to remove their helmets and put on emergency plastic hoods with five minutes of oxygen. The journalists had been briefed the day before on the use of the gas hoods as well as gasmasks for Baghdad because of recent chlorine gas attacks.
The media was also told the security detachment's prime objective was to protect the Prime Minister in case of emergency or attack. When the plane shuddered to a halt on the Tallil tarmac, everyone responded immediately and professionally. SAS troops poured out the back door and set up a security perimeter, Channel 9's Jessop ran on to the tarmac to film the incident while Channel 7's Hunt filmed the Prime Minister coming from the cockpit at the front.
They acted instinctively and independently, with Hunt not even realising where Jessop was when he left the plane. The other media got off the plane before Howard because they were closer to the exit. A ring of SAS soldiers formed closer to the Prime Minister as his personal guard rushed him from the plane. Nobody knew the cause of the smoke, what might happen or what threat there could have been outside the aircraft.
When at a safe distance along the tarmac the journalists interviewed Howard and Houston, who played down the threat and praised the crew. After about 20 minutes, when security prevented mobile phone calls for fear of "bad people" monitoring the airwaves and discovering what had happened, the trip to Baghdad resumed on a second aircraft.
Reports, footage and audio of the emergency were made public in Australia after the original secrecy deadline passed.
Conspiracy theories immediately sprang up on websites,
There we go - hope that satisfies a few doubting Thomases.
SW
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
justapplhere
Lower old boy - you are not a professional pilot and therefore have no right to comment in this particular forum (see PPRUNE rules)........please p**s off !!
That is not to defend or support LL's argument in any way. Indeed, as others have stated, I think he's a little out out of his depth here.
Nevertheless, he does have the right to post his point of view free from personal attacks - something that I hope both you and she/he take into account before responding.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
I imagine that harbouring such a strong dislike for the PM such that an individual looks at everything he does through that prism must make for a very sad lifestyle.
"Just geeing you up!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
he does have the right to post his point of view free from personal attacks - something that I hope both you and she/he take into account before responding
Evertonian
Lieutenant Poxon, 27, joked last week from the RAAF's secret airbase in the Middle East.
Lieutenant Poxon radioed the control tower in Talil and declared a "PAN"
but there was added stress involved in returning to Talil.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gotta love it...
RAAF's secret airbase in the Middle East.
But as for
there was added stress involved in returning to Talil. "It's still a combat zone."
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's not even a real photo of Lieutenant Poxon (obviously not his real name, either). Far too young looking.
We all know Herc jerks are fat, balding and much older with that worn-out look in their eyes. And that's just the loadies.
We all know Herc jerks are fat, balding and much older with that worn-out look in their eyes. And that's just the loadies.
See! even the crew thought it was the frozos......well at first.
Have to say, good coverage all round for the RAAF - no naff reporting, a grounded interview with the pilot, all matter of fact and professional.
Nothing to see here boys, move along.
Have to say, good coverage all round for the RAAF - no naff reporting, a grounded interview with the pilot, all matter of fact and professional.
Nothing to see here boys, move along.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
P-A-F...
No worries Di Vosh. You'd be happy to fly in there?
What's your intel source for Talil being safe?
Do you have access to the latest SAFIRE reports from Iraq?
You do understand that the Australian Defence Force doesn't give full press briefings every time something threatening happens?
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 25th Mar 2007 at 19:28.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: mascot
Age: 57
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF
Mate just a bit curious as what you describe as being "just next to".
I have never been to Iraq but these post got me interested so I looked up google earth the kids use and to me it looks like Tallil is more than 170 k's from Basra as the crow fly's.Not what I'd call just over the hill.
But I guess that if you were in Basra and wanted to lob a rpg or mortar into the field at talil for allah it wouldn't be that far to drive.
I don't know about what you guys call a combat zone bit i reckon that would just about describe the whole middle east not just Iraq(or Iran as well from the brits point of view)
Mate just a bit curious as what you describe as being "just next to".
I have never been to Iraq but these post got me interested so I looked up google earth the kids use and to me it looks like Tallil is more than 170 k's from Basra as the crow fly's.Not what I'd call just over the hill.
But I guess that if you were in Basra and wanted to lob a rpg or mortar into the field at talil for allah it wouldn't be that far to drive.
I don't know about what you guys call a combat zone bit i reckon that would just about describe the whole middle east not just Iraq(or Iran as well from the brits point of view)
Last edited by roamingwolf; 27th Mar 2007 at 04:57.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WTF?
Kind of like Basra (just next to Tallil) also being in the "safest" part of the country?
Would you be happy to not where your flak jacket and helmet going in there?
Would you be happy flying into there on a civilian aircraft?
DIVOSH!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you still going on about this?
I'm not sure why you're going on about Basra. I'll put my original post up here again:
No mention of Basra. You brought it up, and claimed it was "Just over the hill". It is a long way away; not only in distance, but in the mindset of the locals. This includes their attitude towards coalition forces, as well as what they're prepared to do about it. Basra is NOT Tallil!
I agree with you (shock) that Basra is NOT a safe part of Iraq, and if the report had been about the Herc landing back in Basra, I wouldn't have made my original comment.
I apologise for putting in a "Throwaway line" about my observations on Loadmasters.
I'll state again, that I made my Threat Assessment on what I have seen, heard, and read over several months living and working in and around Tallil AFB! Knowing the layout of the airfield, and the (various things I wont go into on PPRuNe) I can say that I'd be quite happy doing circuits there in a Civilian aircraft.
I have no idea. If they were at 4500', and GUESSING their likely departure profile, then I'm GUESSING not very far. Why don't you ask him and get back to me? Then your whole "distance from Tallil" argument may become relevant.
I don't know, and I'm not sure what it has to do with anything I mentioned earlier. At least circuit distance, obviously.
If it's all the same with you, I'd rather not discuss the weapons and armour posture of Australian soldiers at Tallil on PPRuNe. I will point out though, that Tallil had plenty of Civvy contractors who were unarmed and didn't wear body armour.
Where did I say that I didn't believe that Tallil was a combat zone? How do you come to the conclusion "by your own admission you don't deserve it"?
Sure, you can claim that. But YOU are confusing my argument because I NEVER said that Tallil was safe compared to anywhere else. I said that Tallil was about the safest place in the country. You can infer from what I said that IMO Tallil was safe enough to do circuits.
.
Where did I claim to be an expert on military fixed wing operations? I mentioned my paxing in and out of Tallil, because YOU asked if I'd be happy to fly into there.
I never said that. Please read your own questions to me, and my answers to THOSE questions, and NOT what you thought you asked.
Your opinion! As I said, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier, I'd be happy doing CIRCUITS at TALLIL in a civilian aircraft. No other airports! Not between airports!
I think you're wrong, and I would have if I had the chance 
Apologies to the other Prune readers who had to wade through all that!
PAF, I'd be happy to talk about this offline, where we can get into specifics (which I'd rather not do here). PM me if you like.
DIVOSH!
p.s. Your assumptions about me are around 50% correct.
oh PLEASE!! Tallil would have to be about the SAFEST part of the country!!
I agree with you (shock) that Basra is NOT a safe part of Iraq, and if the report had been about the Herc landing back in Basra, I wouldn't have made my original comment.
So let be get this straight. You are basing the threat assessment to military fixed wing transport aircraft on what you thought you noticed as a passenger sitting in a cargo compartment that for all intents and purposes you can not see out of?
I'll state again, that I made my Threat Assessment on what I have seen, heard, and read over several months living and working in and around Tallil AFB! Knowing the layout of the airfield, and the (various things I wont go into on PPRuNe) I can say that I'd be quite happy doing circuits there in a Civilian aircraft.
How far out do you think the aircraft was when they executed the smoke and fumes checklist?
So if Tallil is this little safe haven in Iraq, how far out do you think that extends?
Do you walk around Tallil or Nasiriyah with no fire arm or body armour / helmet?
Since you don't believe Tallil to be a combat zone I assume you'll be donating $150( + your normal tax) for each day you spent in Tallil to charity (because by your own admission you don't deserve it)
I stand by my claim that you are confusing "Safe compared to XYZ" and "Safe"
being a pax in the cargo compartment certainly doesn't make you an expert!
Where did I claim to be an expert on military fixed wing operations? I mentioned my paxing in and out of Tallil, because YOU asked if I'd be happy to fly into there.
I know better because I paxed into and out of there a few times over the past five or so months.
If you want to fly anywhere in Iraq in a civil aircraft then I personally think you have a death wish.
I think you're all talk and wouldn't do that.
Apologies to the other Prune readers who had to wade through all that!
PAF, I'd be happy to talk about this offline, where we can get into specifics (which I'd rather not do here). PM me if you like.
DIVOSH!
p.s. Your assumptions about me are around 50% correct.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: mascot
Age: 57
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boy it looks like some ego's on pprune are easily bruised.
PAF Don't take this seriously mate but your idea of just next to is different to most people.Mate As Divosh said Basra is a different animal and not just over the hill to Tallil .
I reckon that bankstown is just next to Sydney but bathurst is not and if you were walking or driving it is a lot longer than 170 k's and Divosh did not bring up Basra you did.
let it rest
to change the subject what would have happened if it was the US president in the same boat(or herc or whatever).
I reckon they would have had a exclusion area the size of Tasmania around the airfield.Hang on Ive probably done it now with all the military experts here
PAF Don't take this seriously mate but your idea of just next to is different to most people.Mate As Divosh said Basra is a different animal and not just over the hill to Tallil .
I reckon that bankstown is just next to Sydney but bathurst is not and if you were walking or driving it is a lot longer than 170 k's and Divosh did not bring up Basra you did.
let it rest
to change the subject what would have happened if it was the US president in the same boat(or herc or whatever).
I reckon they would have had a exclusion area the size of Tasmania around the airfield.Hang on Ive probably done it now with all the military experts here
Last edited by roamingwolf; 27th Mar 2007 at 22:58.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologies
PAF, mate, you’re beginning to get irritating!
Your first question: are you querying Roamingwolf or me? You seem to be asking me a question, but it’s his quote. (Thanks for the support btw, RW).
I’ll answer it anyway. I’ll sick of saying why I thought that Tallil was safe. Read it for yourself (AGAIN). They include reasons that I wont go into on PPRuNe. Basra is very different. One of the reasons I came to that conclusion was from hearing my friends and colleagues who were there every other week. Other reasons I’m not prepared to state here on PPRuNe. The bottom line is, is that Basra is NOT safe (IMHO).
On comparisons: Okay! If you want to interpret what I said as a comparison FINE! But so what? Iraq can be a dangerous place. Tallil AFB, IMO is not! The captain as reported referred to Tallil as a combat zone. I felt that he was overdramatising that part of it, Based on MY OPINION of Tallil as a safe place to be!
Your English Comprehension skills are lacking. “About the safest” is NOT “The safest”, even though you seem to think that it is. I believe that there ARE safer places in Iraq than Tallil AFB (I’ve not been to them, however).
Comments like this:
Are pathetic. I’ve every respect for the aircrew for their ability to fly the aircraft, as well as landing during an inflight incident. They lose some of that respect when they make comments like referring to Tallil as a combat zone! (Btw, you still haven’t got back to me with all the SAFIRE reports in the Tallil area).
As for the rest of it: pure trash. From ONE comment I made, you can infer:
What an incredible imagination you have!
But now that you mention it, why don’t you ask your Air Force Int officers for their detailed risk analysis on the hazards to aircraft in the Tallil circuit area from small arms, RPG’s, missiles, etc? Get back to me on that.
Other forces transport aircraft did the odd circuit there, you know. Did they have a death wish too? Were they all talk?
And your last:
Yes.. it's all fun and games until someone gets shot, Nothing like an Iraqi noise complaint!
PRICELESS! Did someone help you with that line?
I did my own risk assessment while I was there, and it came out safe for DIVOSH!
Your first question: are you querying Roamingwolf or me? You seem to be asking me a question, but it’s his quote. (Thanks for the support btw, RW).
I’ll answer it anyway. I’ll sick of saying why I thought that Tallil was safe. Read it for yourself (AGAIN). They include reasons that I wont go into on PPRuNe. Basra is very different. One of the reasons I came to that conclusion was from hearing my friends and colleagues who were there every other week. Other reasons I’m not prepared to state here on PPRuNe. The bottom line is, is that Basra is NOT safe (IMHO).
On comparisons: Okay!
If you want to interpret what I said as a comparison FINE! But so what? Iraq can be a dangerous place. Tallil AFB, IMO is not! The captain as reported referred to Tallil as a combat zone. I felt that he was overdramatising that part of it, Based on MY OPINION of Tallil as a safe place to be!Your English Comprehension skills are lacking. “About the safest” is NOT “The safest”, even though you seem to think that it is. I believe that there ARE safer places in Iraq than Tallil AFB (I’ve not been to them, however).
Comments like this:
Maybe it didn't feel like combat to you whilst sleeping down the back, but perhaps you could pay some respect to the aircrew whilst relaxing... I doubt it though, because "You KNOW".
As for the rest of it: pure trash. From ONE comment I made, you can infer:
Maybe it didn't feel like combat to you whilst sleeping down the back, but perhaps you could pay some respect to the aircrew whilst relaxing... I doubt it though, because "You KNOW".
Maybe as an Army guy you can explain the risk that the Navy guys in the gulf face too? (I assume the Army bit was part of the 50% right! )
Many aircrew guys have served in the area you refer to (as your basis of "I know") but aren't claiming to "know" how the army guys do their jobs.
Although as was mentioned in a RAAF news article, the RAAF aircrew guys know what to do if taxiing down an Iraqi highway in a convoy of Hercs!!!
Perhaps there is a reason why we have Air Force Intel officers and don't just rely on Army Pax to assess the risk to tactical fixed wing transport aircraft???
Maybe as an Army guy you can explain the risk that the Navy guys in the gulf face too? (I assume the Army bit was part of the 50% right! )
Many aircrew guys have served in the area you refer to (as your basis of "I know") but aren't claiming to "know" how the army guys do their jobs.
Although as was mentioned in a RAAF news article, the RAAF aircrew guys know what to do if taxiing down an Iraqi highway in a convoy of Hercs!!!
Perhaps there is a reason why we have Air Force Intel officers and don't just rely on Army Pax to assess the risk to tactical fixed wing transport aircraft???
But now that you mention it, why don’t you ask your Air Force Int officers for their detailed risk analysis on the hazards to aircraft in the Tallil circuit area from small arms, RPG’s, missiles, etc? Get back to me on that.
Other forces transport aircraft did the odd circuit there, you know. Did they have a death wish too? Were they all talk?
And your last:
Yes.. it's all fun and games until someone gets shot, Nothing like an Iraqi noise complaint!
PRICELESS! Did someone help you with that line?
I did my own risk assessment while I was there, and it came out safe for DIVOSH!