Virgin Blue flight cancellations.
short flights long nights
$1000 dollars a day for a callout? That sounds like.........
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Seems to be alot of the same sentiment: 'Plenty of people with the right hours'.
I'm afraid experience is only one piece of the puzzle. A fair chunk of applicants with loads of hours would be useless for an operation like this...
I'm afraid experience is only one piece of the puzzle. A fair chunk of applicants with loads of hours would be useless for an operation like this...
Metrosexual
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I'm afraid experience is only one piece of the puzzle. Many would agree that a fair chunk of applicants with loads of hours are still useless for an operation like this...
So how do you work out if these guys with experience at the rung below jets have any or all of the pieces of the puzzle, unless you call them in and evaluate them?
Or do you just pull a guy straight out of a C310 and hope he doesn't chew up numerous extra sectors of line training before they reach line standard, because they would be 'happy in the RHS for 8 years until they get a chance to go to command'?
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I'm not saying that the airline shouldn't call them to find out first hand how useless they are, i'm suggesting that this idea of hours being like frequent flyer points is stupid. Experience sorts most people out, sometimes it doesn't, I've seen it.
Metrosexual
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I don't mean to get into a pi$$ing comp with you, Podbreak, but on that premise, do you really believe it is reasonable for an airline to call to call in for an interview, a pilot with 500hrs TT rather than a pilot with 5000hrs and 2000hrs turbine because 'hours flown are like frequent flyer points' ?
short flights long nights
Caution.....thread drift!!!!
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Pilots are just sky taxi drivers right??
I mean,
You arrive at work, push a few buttons on the MCP and FMC, start APU, start No.2, then No.1, select flap 5- press TO/GO and the plane does the rest right??.............
How much are you being offered by VB to fly 738?? I would think $90k to $120k?
I do wonder what the pilots of RAAF VIP (737-800?) get paid to fly John Howard around? I am sure they are on an AWA........
You arrive at work, push a few buttons on the MCP and FMC, start APU, start No.2, then No.1, select flap 5- press TO/GO and the plane does the rest right??.............
How much are you being offered by VB to fly 738?? I would think $90k to $120k?
I do wonder what the pilots of RAAF VIP (737-800?) get paid to fly John Howard around? I am sure they are on an AWA........
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Jet, likewise, and I'll try to avoid the thread drift;
I'm not suggesting that, i'm implying that the idea experience is your ticket to ride is flawed. I'd suggest they call up both applicants and make a judgement. Just because you've got the hours doesn't automatically make you a good operator (thats why some won't ever get an airline job, provided they want one of course).
Back to the subject;
I'm not suggesting that, i'm implying that the idea experience is your ticket to ride is flawed. I'd suggest they call up both applicants and make a judgement. Just because you've got the hours doesn't automatically make you a good operator (thats why some won't ever get an airline job, provided they want one of course).
Back to the subject;
Heard a rumour that DJ might have to push a couple of jets up against the fence.Someone might know some more on that.Pity management didnt trickle train a few captains a month for the last couple of years and there woulnt be any crewing drama !!!!!
the kid.
the kid.
Metrosexual
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SSorry for the thread drift - last reply to podbreak.
To a certain extent, you are right. But the general assumption that more hours = more experience = better pilot is a legitimate one, and used to set minimum requirements by convention for that simple reason. There will often be exceptions, and like you, I have witnessed and accept that.
The point that i was originally making was that there are plenty of guys, quite capable and experienced, who have not even been contacted, let alone evaluated for suitability - that's what i find peculiar. It kind of makes a mockery of working hard to build hours and improve one's skills, when the experience one gains is often hard fought and won, and then at the end of the day is, somehow, I dunno, worthless
I do not believe that hours in the log book should be a ticket to ride. However, it should be a ticket to a place at the table to give a pilot a chance to prove they're worth at least an evaluation! Call them in, and if they're humps, send them home. Hey, some of them might even be assets to the operation once employed! Work your way down the list, that's all.
In any case, best of luck in whatever you do, and also to the Virgin crews
To a certain extent, you are right. But the general assumption that more hours = more experience = better pilot is a legitimate one, and used to set minimum requirements by convention for that simple reason. There will often be exceptions, and like you, I have witnessed and accept that.
The point that i was originally making was that there are plenty of guys, quite capable and experienced, who have not even been contacted, let alone evaluated for suitability - that's what i find peculiar. It kind of makes a mockery of working hard to build hours and improve one's skills, when the experience one gains is often hard fought and won, and then at the end of the day is, somehow, I dunno, worthless
I do not believe that hours in the log book should be a ticket to ride. However, it should be a ticket to a place at the table to give a pilot a chance to prove they're worth at least an evaluation! Call them in, and if they're humps, send them home. Hey, some of them might even be assets to the operation once employed! Work your way down the list, that's all.
In any case, best of luck in whatever you do, and also to the Virgin crews
Guys are leaving quicker than they can be replaced.
28 have left so far this year. Many others waiting on EBA result, who already have start dates elsewhere. New hires finding it difficult to source Sim time for endorsements. Preference being given to those who already hold 737 endorsement. Crisis management at it's best.
28 have left so far this year. Many others waiting on EBA result, who already have start dates elsewhere. New hires finding it difficult to source Sim time for endorsements. Preference being given to those who already hold 737 endorsement. Crisis management at it's best.
Things must be miserable if VB pilots are giving up their LHS and Australian lifestyle and going to Emirates.
Why not tighten the screws? Run a limited industrial campaign along the lines of work to rule. It would be hard on the money that VB drivers get to knock back a $1000 bonus to work, but it could provide some significant gain in the future. What about sick leave?
And don't forget, nobody who could be quickly qualified in any numbers, wants your job. It's a crap job. Why else would a heap of you be interviewing for jobs with the Arabs?
Why not tighten the screws? Run a limited industrial campaign along the lines of work to rule. It would be hard on the money that VB drivers get to knock back a $1000 bonus to work, but it could provide some significant gain in the future. What about sick leave?
And don't forget, nobody who could be quickly qualified in any numbers, wants your job. It's a crap job. Why else would a heap of you be interviewing for jobs with the Arabs?
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Flog your workforce to an early grave after having them paid for the privilage as well.. an accountants wet dream.
So how little are Virgin Blue offering the E190 pilots now? and for how many hours flying a year?
Shags
So how little are Virgin Blue offering the E190 pilots now? and for how many hours flying a year?
Shags
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Jet A Knoight
You are quite correct. There are some poor sods who have heaps of turbine RPT command who appear to be continually looked over by the likes of VB,JQ & QF. One guy at our company 6000-7000 hours 3000 or so multi turbine command, C & T and never gets a bite and the guy is only 33. And he is very very good. Not really old enough to be put out to pasture.
Training can never copmensate for years of experience with regard to sound decision making
You are quite correct. There are some poor sods who have heaps of turbine RPT command who appear to be continually looked over by the likes of VB,JQ & QF. One guy at our company 6000-7000 hours 3000 or so multi turbine command, C & T and never gets a bite and the guy is only 33. And he is very very good. Not really old enough to be put out to pasture.
Training can never copmensate for years of experience with regard to sound decision making
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Gnadenburg-
I think you might find that any union "endorsed" industrial campaign is very difficult under the wonderful piece of legislation- WorkChoices. And under these new rules, "Work to Rule" is classed as industrial action, and so there cant be any imput from AFAP into this.
2 things though,
1)Not extending beyond CAO 48 is not classed as work to rule
2)If it is instigated by someone other than the union- then go for it.
Arrive at briefing right on signon, min op fuel when weather is bad, gas is up on Cavok, dont chase anything or anyone up with regards to loadsheets or refuelling etc, making sure every MEL is read carefully and understood completely on EVERY sector, no extensions, no answering phones when not required etc etc.
These things that senior management take for granted cannot be costed while we continue to do it. Only once the goodwill stops, will the full cost of what we do hit them. Fight the good fight lads!!!!!
I think you might find that any union "endorsed" industrial campaign is very difficult under the wonderful piece of legislation- WorkChoices. And under these new rules, "Work to Rule" is classed as industrial action, and so there cant be any imput from AFAP into this.
2 things though,
1)Not extending beyond CAO 48 is not classed as work to rule
2)If it is instigated by someone other than the union- then go for it.
Arrive at briefing right on signon, min op fuel when weather is bad, gas is up on Cavok, dont chase anything or anyone up with regards to loadsheets or refuelling etc, making sure every MEL is read carefully and understood completely on EVERY sector, no extensions, no answering phones when not required etc etc.
These things that senior management take for granted cannot be costed while we continue to do it. Only once the goodwill stops, will the full cost of what we do hit them. Fight the good fight lads!!!!!
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I think you might find that any union "endorsed" industrial campaign is very difficult under the wonderful piece of legislation- WorkChoices. And under these new rules, "Work to Rule" is classed as industrial action, and so there cant be any imput from AFAP into this.
It can include work to rule!
How do I know this? Because the AFAP told me!
Very good information also available from the master builders federation here!
Cheers, HH.
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Why not tighten the screws? Run a limited industrial campaign along the lines of work to rule.
It is about time we had some facts about Workchoices! All that is required is a 'protected bargaining period', of course you will require the AFAP's assistance to secure one!
Withdrawing labour altogether is more drastic but has exactly the same effect on your pay packet; under workchoices it is illegal for employers to pay staff engaged in industrial action, protected or not, which basicaly implies that the only action that can be taken is withdrawal of labour as what ever you do equals withdrawal of wages.
This US style industrial laws, some unions/associations have "militia groups of workers" in "sleeper squads", having organised strategic sick days etc. to attempt to avoid triggering the laws or withdrawal of labour altogether; but simply highlight to the employer that something needs to be done and morale is low.
It takes industrial savy to push the point, unfortunately, and there are massive fines for the relevant union if it can be proven that illegal action has been taken; thus the use of "sleeper squads".
Be aware of the imposed Certified Agreement under workchoices; after 90 days (of expirery of the last) the employer can impose one upon you; see the FAA and NATCA as an example. They can even impose one previously rejected by majority vote.