Could Jetstar Leave JPC and join AIPA
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Could Jetstar Leave JPC and join AIPA
Could Jetstar Leave JPC and join AIPA?
Considering the sentiment (right or wrong) that JPC has screwed their crews with even letting the J*int T&C even go to a vote. What would be the challenges in moving all of J* from JPC to AIPA? In other threads it has been suggested that they are and were welcome to join AIPA. The longer that the entities within the QF group have different union representation the greater the potential slide for "All".
Who represents National Jet? Does anybody?? doesn't appear so
Considering the sentiment (right or wrong) that JPC has screwed their crews with even letting the J*int T&C even go to a vote. What would be the challenges in moving all of J* from JPC to AIPA? In other threads it has been suggested that they are and were welcome to join AIPA. The longer that the entities within the QF group have different union representation the greater the potential slide for "All".
Who represents National Jet? Does anybody?? doesn't appear so
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There already are some J* pilots who are members of AIPA albeit a minority atm, whether they all want to leave and move to AIPA is a different proposition. AIPA has a new reform group and they are heading in the right directions, but you cant expect all the Jet* pilots to move straight away after all AIPA has a checkered history in the past to accomodate these employees so they have a right to be cautious, I think it will take time but the current group are really working hard to accomodate as many pilot groups into the organisation as possible in the future. Hope it all works out.
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The new group running AIPA are basically running a new organisation. There has been lots of bloodshed as they run a broom through the place, and still some of the old guard spend time trying to attack the new groups way of doing things. However, some really good people are there now, and things have certainly changed direction for the good since they have been there.
It (AIPA) is a total different ship now to what it was in times gone by. Most of those responsible for some of the deeds done in the past are not at all involved now, meaning that hopefully people can move forward and not dwell on some of the mistakes.
It (AIPA) is a total different ship now to what it was in times gone by. Most of those responsible for some of the deeds done in the past are not at all involved now, meaning that hopefully people can move forward and not dwell on some of the mistakes.
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Dito crusty, having been to the road show lately and even talking my mates at SS and J* there certainly seems to be genuine and concerted push to involve all flight crew area's in the Q group to achieve a common voice.
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Agreed, it should've happened some time ago but unfortunately big egos and plain short-sightedness got in the way. At least the current AIPA are having a go at progressing this.
Oh Lucius, Lucius, where for art thou, Lucius? Waiting eagerly for you to make some silly comment on the current AIPA!
Oh Lucius, Lucius, where for art thou, Lucius? Waiting eagerly for you to make some silly comment on the current AIPA!
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Angle of Attack has hit the nail on the head. There is too much emotional baggage on both sides for J* pilots to accept representation from AIPA. Before AIPA can be considered genuine in their attempts to unite the Qgroup pilots it should consider a name change- the I in AIPA I would suggest, is not relevant to a large number of J* Eastern,Sunstate or QF S/H pilots.
"Before AIPA can be considered genuine in their attempts to unite the Qgroup pilots it should consider a name change- the I in AIPA I would suggest, is not relevant to a large number of J* Eastern,Sunstate or QF S/H pilots."
permFO,
The "A" in AIPA refers to Australian, and the full title is Australian & International Pilots Association. Hence the pilots you refer to (who generally fly within Australia) actually get first mention!!!! "And" being the key word !
Pedantic I know, but the title is all inclusive and doesn't just refer to long haul!
permFO,
The "A" in AIPA refers to Australian, and the full title is Australian & International Pilots Association. Hence the pilots you refer to (who generally fly within Australia) actually get first mention!!!! "And" being the key word !
Pedantic I know, but the title is all inclusive and doesn't just refer to long haul!
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Things are becoming a bit quieter on the bruised ego front as some of the more vocal 'old guard' realise people are not at all impressed with the way they ran the show in the past and are retreating to hide in their caves somewhere.
The new AIPA people are more focused on looking after everyones interests, which can be seen in how more junior crew are listened to and looked after nowadays. These signs are positive for pilots of other groups. In days gone by, the 400 Captains club seemed to benefit the most from negotiations and agreements, with the belief you will all be senior and in that position one day so take the shafting we are giving you. This does not appear to be happening now.
To me, in my few years experience, this mob appears to be the most professional, open and so far accountable group running the union.
The new AIPA people are more focused on looking after everyones interests, which can be seen in how more junior crew are listened to and looked after nowadays. These signs are positive for pilots of other groups. In days gone by, the 400 Captains club seemed to benefit the most from negotiations and agreements, with the belief you will all be senior and in that position one day so take the shafting we are giving you. This does not appear to be happening now.
To me, in my few years experience, this mob appears to be the most professional, open and so far accountable group running the union.
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So as an Australian pilot working overseas....would AIPA welcome me too? There's a lot of us.
Or....should this simply be seen as a good chance to begin the return to the single pilot union concept that built much of the best parts of Australian aviation.
Or....should this simply be seen as a good chance to begin the return to the single pilot union concept that built much of the best parts of Australian aviation.
Wait for the court decision. I am reliably informed that this decision is yet to come. The president will welcome you all - Jet* or who ever - when it is legal. That's what he said tonight over a beer or 3 - what better source can I offer?
Could Jetstar Leave JPC and Join AIPA?
When AIPA resolve their conflict of interest (Growth of Jetstar seen as sacrificing Growth of Mainline) and come up with a proposal to fairly represent Jetstar pilots then I guess we will have a look at it. I don’t think that changing the rules to allow Jetstar pilots to join AIPA will necessarily open the floodgates. By the way, any proposal to fairly represent Jetstar pilots should not include the words endeavour (a ship that sunk many years ago) or intent (something you are in when camping). Not sure what the regionals’ think of this proposition, I guess they have been shafted enough that they would welcome anything that improves their lot.
When AIPA resolve their conflict of interest (Growth of Jetstar seen as sacrificing Growth of Mainline) and come up with a proposal to fairly represent Jetstar pilots then I guess we will have a look at it. I don’t think that changing the rules to allow Jetstar pilots to join AIPA will necessarily open the floodgates. By the way, any proposal to fairly represent Jetstar pilots should not include the words endeavour (a ship that sunk many years ago) or intent (something you are in when camping). Not sure what the regionals’ think of this proposition, I guess they have been shafted enough that they would welcome anything that improves their lot.
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But reached it was and from 12 July 1966 Australian Aviation conditions of employment for pilots changed their lives. Some rancour still existed at management level that pilots were now so well treated, but a form of respectful alliance had come to exist between officers of the Pilots Federation and the career Industrial Officers employed by the Airlines. One exception to the July 1966 Agreement was of course the Qantas pilot group and for them began a year of agony to achieve conditions of employment similar to their fellow members of the Federation flying the domestic airline routes.
Failure to progress in negotiations and management attitude stemming from the very top finally drove the Qantas pilots to a prolonged strike from early December 1966 which served to set a climate for further negotiations and in mid 1967 the Federation successfully concluded an employment agreement with Qantas acceptable to both pilots and management. The Pilots Federation had now achieved its major platform and would go on improving each segment of that platform of operating agreements to include general aviation and every aspect of flying in Australia.
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Why did you QF drivers ever leave the AFAP?
Failure to progress in negotiations and management attitude stemming from the very top finally drove the Qantas pilots to a prolonged strike from early December 1966 which served to set a climate for further negotiations and in mid 1967 the Federation successfully concluded an employment agreement with Qantas acceptable to both pilots and management. The Pilots Federation had now achieved its major platform and would go on improving each segment of that platform of operating agreements to include general aviation and every aspect of flying in Australia.
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Why did you QF drivers ever leave the AFAP?
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Casper, the number of current Qantas pilots who were around in 1981 is about 8% of the total.
To most QF guys the split is just an esoteric bit of history. Why do you flog that dead horse?
To most QF guys the split is just an esoteric bit of history. Why do you flog that dead horse?
It's all about me!
If the option comes up then surely you must decide where your interests are better served. If the current representatives are doing a good job then stick with them. However I think some groups out there will be found wanting in the near future and only a combined stance will be of benefit to one and all.
Forget the ego's and be rational about it!
If the option comes up then surely you must decide where your interests are better served. If the current representatives are doing a good job then stick with them. However I think some groups out there will be found wanting in the near future and only a combined stance will be of benefit to one and all.
Forget the ego's and be rational about it!
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Truckster....you said
"the number of current Qantas pilots who were around in 1981 is about 8% of the total.
To most QF guys the split is just an esoteric bit of history. Why do you flog that dead horse?"
I don't know you but would say that you have just shown wisdom way beyond your years in explaining the very philosophy that has put AIPA exactly where it is today. Divided, bitter, bereft, lost and with little to look forward to. All because the lessons of "just an esoteric bit of history" seem irrelevant.....to a professional group who should know better than most that history is our best teacher.
"the number of current Qantas pilots who were around in 1981 is about 8% of the total.
To most QF guys the split is just an esoteric bit of history. Why do you flog that dead horse?"
I don't know you but would say that you have just shown wisdom way beyond your years in explaining the very philosophy that has put AIPA exactly where it is today. Divided, bitter, bereft, lost and with little to look forward to. All because the lessons of "just an esoteric bit of history" seem irrelevant.....to a professional group who should know better than most that history is our best teacher.
Nunc est bibendum
Crikey, here we go again. We get it. We've got it for at least the last dozen years or so. I'm pretty confident that the current COM get it. The point is it's no good pointing the finger at QF crews and saying 'you should have never left' when in reality the leaving means zero. That does NOT mean that we haven't learned the lessons of the time! 
So take your best shot guys but I reckon that the current AIPA have been more proactive about having a united pilot group voice for this industry than any other pilot group in the last decade.
So take your best shot guys but I reckon that the current AIPA have been more proactive about having a united pilot group voice for this industry than any other pilot group in the last decade.