Exodus from Skippers (Merged)
bushy
You don’t need an ATPL to have a P1 rating on a multi crew aircraft above 5700 kg. To log PIC though you do require an ATPL but to log ICUS or P1US you only require a CPL.
Islander Jock
Almost all correct except the FOI was wrong in stating that you have to have a C&T next to you. Certainly in the majors and in most regionals, CAR 5.40 is followed to the “T” and states that only a line captain is required to supervise an FO logging ICUS. Maybe your friend needs to point that out to this FOI who quite clearly doesn't understand or know his own regs to have a re-read of CAR 5.40.
You don’t need an ATPL to have a P1 rating on a multi crew aircraft above 5700 kg. To log PIC though you do require an ATPL but to log ICUS or P1US you only require a CPL.
Islander Jock
Almost all correct except the FOI was wrong in stating that you have to have a C&T next to you. Certainly in the majors and in most regionals, CAR 5.40 is followed to the “T” and states that only a line captain is required to supervise an FO logging ICUS. Maybe your friend needs to point that out to this FOI who quite clearly doesn't understand or know his own regs to have a re-read of CAR 5.40.
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Put it this way...when an F/O is being trained up to be a captain, he is sitting in the left and flying with a check and trainer and logging ICUS. Technically speaking, he/she doesn't necessarily need an ATPL until he is checked to line as Captain and logging command.
And now back to the actual thread....
And now back to the actual thread....
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Bushy,
You do not need an ATPL to hold a command endorsement on a multi crew above 5700 kg aircraft.
You do however require an ATPL to be the PIC of said aircraft in Charter or RPT.
So a CPL holding Cadet can not ever be PIC of a Metro23 in RPT or Charter. Purely and simply because the aircraft is above 5700kg, although can do in a Conquest.
Command does not mean "at the controls", it assumes you are qualified in all respects to be the PIC, such as an FO on a B747, whereas the SO probably would not be qualified.
You do not need an ATPL to hold a command endorsement on a multi crew above 5700 kg aircraft.
You do however require an ATPL to be the PIC of said aircraft in Charter or RPT.
So a CPL holding Cadet can not ever be PIC of a Metro23 in RPT or Charter. Purely and simply because the aircraft is above 5700kg, although can do in a Conquest.
This little gem finds it way into CAO 40.1.0:
10.5 The holder of a commercial pilot (aeroplane) licence may log as time in command the total time elapsed during his or her command, in flight, of an aeroplane. He or she may log as co-pilot the total time during which he or she serves as co-pilot.
10.5 The holder of a commercial pilot (aeroplane) licence may log as time in command the total time elapsed during his or her command, in flight, of an aeroplane. He or she may log as co-pilot the total time during which he or she serves as co-pilot.
Command does not mean "at the controls", it assumes you are qualified in all respects to be the PIC, such as an FO on a B747, whereas the SO probably would not be qualified.
See, clear as mud. It appears that the wrong interpretation at Skippers meant any line Captain could allow ICUS by the FO when they have changed their tune now to only training captains supervising FO whilst logging ICUS.
Yes the seat does not matter, in command does not mean manipulating pilot. A long haul Captain on a 747 who goes down the back for a sleep is still in command of the aircraft whilst not even on the flight deck!
Yes the seat does not matter, in command does not mean manipulating pilot. A long haul Captain on a 747 who goes down the back for a sleep is still in command of the aircraft whilst not even on the flight deck!
Huggy bear says the word on the street is that the Qantas boys and girls working as cadets at Skippers have been given the tap on the shoulder and are heading East....is it true, if so how will the numbers stack up?
It appears the prospect of parking aircraft against the fence is now a reality. Only three Metro Captains remain and two training Captains. Bras hanging in there...more recruitment from the other side happening...CASA taking great interest in operations...cabin crew trainer resigns in disgust...
Icarus 2001--
Is that info from reliable sources in the company or just hearsay around the airport????
If reliable do you have any other info re goings on in the company???
if so please share.
Thanks
Is that info from reliable sources in the company or just hearsay around the airport????
If reliable do you have any other info re goings on in the company???
if so please share.
Thanks
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Icarus 2001
There are more than 3 Metro Captains.
You may note that all the Metro's are parked against the fence at Skippers cause that's where they normally park.
It is normal to see an aircraft, be it a Metro or otherwise out on the disused taxiway due to limited space on the ramp since the new Dash arrived.
520.
You may note that all the Metro's are parked against the fence at Skippers cause that's where they normally park.
It is normal to see an aircraft, be it a Metro or otherwise out on the disused taxiway due to limited space on the ramp since the new Dash arrived.
520.
I think I said three Metro Captains and two training Captains, making a total of five. TA is casual, so is SJ and GH is torn between fleets it would seem.
Great, all is going very well then, good to hear.
Great, all is going very well then, good to hear.
I can confirm Icarus2001...five captains (combined) for six aircraft. Might as well pull one of them offline for a paint job!! 
Although I do believe there is no shortage of metro first officers.
520, they ran out of space there long before XFX...
Although I do believe there is no shortage of metro first officers.
520, they ran out of space there long before XFX...
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i flew at skippers untill early this year on the braz and for what the place is it's not as bad as some silver spooners make it out to be. i just had the requirements for command when they offered the job to me, and i grabbed it and didn't let go. yes there are guys with the minimum requirments flying them now as well, but i ve flown with people who are switched on with 1500 hrs and can do the job well and i ve flown with poeple with a load more experience than that and i wuoldn't let them drive my car. my advice "if your happy were you are tell everyone else to f#*k off". the grass isn't any greener anywhere else anyway (QF, VB, etc...)
my advice "if your happy were you are tell everyone else to f#*k off". the grass isn't any greener anywhere else anyway (QF, VB, etc...)
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Metro Captains
Well, let me count:
SJ, TA, AL, AS, CC, SL, SM.
That counts 7 to me!
Did I hear "apology accepted", Icarus??
Or do you just not want to count the two full time Check and Trainers?
520.
SJ, TA, AL, AS, CC, SL, SM.
That counts 7 to me!
Did I hear "apology accepted", Icarus??
Or do you just not want to count the two full time Check and Trainers?
520.
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7 Captains for 6 Metros (according to their website)? That is beyond sustainable. The company is clearly past the point of no return.
I would have thought 3 Captains per plane as a minimum. Looks like Skippers might be the first of many regional sized companies to be terminally affected by the pilot shortage. I say terminally because the early symptoms were clearly ignored, and 7 Captains for 6 planes is quite laughable.
How could anyone with a vested interest in Skippers let it come to this? Incompetence? Loathing for pilots? Greed? All of the above?
I know this is a rumour network, but unless the Skippers website is wrong; and Continental-520 is wrong (and he/she protests otherwise); then I am going to run with the numbers. This equates to about 9.5hrs block to block utilization time per plane per day assuming bare minimum sign on (also assuming computerised duty program and 5 day week). Then that is also assuming no training, holidays, sick days……yada yada, you get the picture.
Now, what’s occurring on the Metro fleet will also occur on the other fleets (if it hasn’t already). Sh$t pay and little respect will cause pilots to go elsewhere, and there are plenty of options. If the company is treading water now, then the future is bleak!
You reap what you sow, and It finally looks like the years of planting sub-standard T & Cs is paying off. Bring in the harvest!
I would have thought 3 Captains per plane as a minimum. Looks like Skippers might be the first of many regional sized companies to be terminally affected by the pilot shortage. I say terminally because the early symptoms were clearly ignored, and 7 Captains for 6 planes is quite laughable.
How could anyone with a vested interest in Skippers let it come to this? Incompetence? Loathing for pilots? Greed? All of the above?
I know this is a rumour network, but unless the Skippers website is wrong; and Continental-520 is wrong (and he/she protests otherwise); then I am going to run with the numbers. This equates to about 9.5hrs block to block utilization time per plane per day assuming bare minimum sign on (also assuming computerised duty program and 5 day week). Then that is also assuming no training, holidays, sick days……yada yada, you get the picture.
Now, what’s occurring on the Metro fleet will also occur on the other fleets (if it hasn’t already). Sh$t pay and little respect will cause pilots to go elsewhere, and there are plenty of options. If the company is treading water now, then the future is bleak!
You reap what you sow, and It finally looks like the years of planting sub-standard T & Cs is paying off. Bring in the harvest!