Jetstar International Losing Pilots Already?

[Dropt McGutz]

To add a further question to this thread, are Jetstar flight crew getting rostered days off when away on a trip?

[an3_bolt]

Originally Posted by Howard Hughes

Lets face it, most QF guys with the exception of a few ex Ansett types, have only ever flown with QF, so they have nothing to compare the standards too, so of course they are of the opinion that QF is number 1 in training practices.
:

FALSE
You might be supprised at the diversity that are within QF. There are a few ex-AN guys but you will find guys who have flown all over the world at different carriers.
By the way - I understand most guys are realistic in their view of aviation and its various components - be it the training or the management etc etc.
In any case - it is not worth getting worked up about no matter what your conviction or belief is. Life is too short.
In any case - this is a thread about Jetstar Inc. losing pilots. Any truth to the rumour??

[the truth....]

My last post on Qf training because of thread drift, but I would say that in the last couple of years with new management, the training department has improved tenfold. But of course that is just my opinion. Also second officer simulator sessions now consist of two 'training sims' and two 'checking' sims so things are changing, I think for the better. Anyhow HH I thought u were just having a go at the kit in the building and I thought that was a bit rich considering it is all good stuff. As to the EP section, I joined with an Ex Ansett guy and he was amazed at the size of it with all the trainers / a/c doors etc, he said Ansett didn't have anything like it. Now I am not by any means having a go at Ansett, it was a fantastic airline, I am just stating me experience with such other people and it might not all be bad one way traffic.

Anyhow. . .Have the said Jetstar pilots left to greener or sandier pastures? And are they taking their RDO overseas?

[Wingspar]

Does anyone know if any Jetstar Int pilots have left?

Appears to be a rumour going around!

[blueloo]

thats good news keg. i too hope the training improves, as you, and i have said it has/appears to be.

unfortunately the opinions of most (including my opinion) suggest it was not to good (ie cr-=ap) in the very recent past, and i still view the long haul system as primarily checking, especially on the 767.

[Gnadenburg]

Originally Posted by Mr.Buzzy

Herin is the character of Gnadenburg.
Thats all from me thanks

The next few years, will see more opportunity for Australian pilots with professional mobility. However, Australian pilots are cheap & nasty, reliable to undercut and even scab.The rumoured ( and I doubt if true ) loss of seven J* pilots to Korean will be my case in point.

$10,000 USD barely an acceptable package tax free. So, any J* A330 pilots will be number crunching on an assumption that they will not be paying Australian tax- despite a commuting contract in clear breech of non-residancy status.

How would you feel as a Qantas pilot? Jetstar have undercut your conditions by a ridiculous and almost spiteful margin. They have taken away your promotional opportunity, and left you in a dire industrial position.

And now, J* pilots, to make ends meet, and in a stance far easier to take than negotiating a better package, are making a mockery of Australian airline pilots. J* International is now a springboard to the contract world!

But the catch is, they will have to use tax evasion to make the numbers work!

In terms of market forces, they are filling a void falsely and cheaply. As a consequence, they could well be driving general pilot condions down- by providing Asian carriers with cheap Australian labour. The Korean package, probably should be 14 USD a month, to compensate taxation payable in Australia.

A leap in Northern Asian contract packages will send a chill through airline managment near and afar.

So, yes, dob these mugs in if they are tax evaders. You are doing the profession a favour! And it is not only QF pilots who will eventually be affected.

[The Pirate]

My spies tell me that no one has left (yet) because the numbers dont stack up and most of them have just come back from OS anyway.

But what a bunch of nasty, bitter, dobbing, twisted bas**rds you are out there. Get a life! Smell the coffee! Mind your own effing business and get on with your own career as best you can under the current conditions and stop bitching before you burst a kerfuffa valve..........

Wait long enough and things will change ............

Capt Jack Sparrow

[Mud Skipper]

But what a bunch of nasty, bitter, dobbing, twisted bas**rds you are out there. Get a life! Smell the coffee! Mind your own effing business and get on with your own career as best you can under the current conditions and stop bitching before you burst a kerfuffa valve..........

Dear Pirate,

Happy to mind my own effing business but these people are stuffing it up and F^ing my kerfuffa valve. It's hard to be simplistic and overlook someone rogering you and inturn your wife and kids.


...... Pirate - more like a Buggie smuggler

[Pete Conrad]

Have to say..this was predicted to happen. The company threatened base closures, loss of commands and even god forbid..losing the Tasman flying to Jetconnect, the incumbent, if the JPC didn't get the EBA widebody addition up.

The J* guys bought the lot over threats and intimidation..under the allusion of vote the EBA now and then we can fight for better conditions..well, I would like to see this happen, because I reckon the next step for J* pilots will be a nice little AWA in a few years time.

Nice one guys..vote the EBA in then p1ss off to Cathay, Dragon, Emirates etc etc....bet you J* guys can hold your heads high..NOT!!

[Gnadenburg]

Ratpoison

I have just read the ten thingies, and I would suggest you are the one in breech of a few of them with that outburst!

Nobody, nor any pilot group was labelled a scab in my post. I was being introspective as an Australian pilot. We are, as described!

I can't find where it says I can't use the scab word- except if directed malicously at an individual or group. Point me in the direction please. I'm happy to substitue with strike breakers etc.

[The Pirate]

Muddy Skipper:-

It's hard to be simplistic and overlook someone rogering you and inturn your wife and kids.

So this has never happened before? Cope with it! We all have; do I complain about 12 years before the mast, broken marriage, kids growing up without you etc etc? NO! It's aviation - supply and demand - life - if you want stability and lifestyle become a plumber!

BTW whats a buggie smuggler? I wouldnt want any bugs down where I usually keep my Budgie.

Capt Jack Sparrow

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Ahh good to see we are back on thread! I was just thinking about the post that said we should be plumbers for a stable income. Which group of employees in Australia have the most stable working conditions and why? Can we learn from their example?

Can we safely say no intl J* pilots have left for shores far away?

[The Pirate]

As far as my spies know, no, no-one has gone. But that does not mean they wont in the fullness of time. An A320 capt in India can double his J* salary. But one would have to live in Mumbai, Bangalore or Dehli. Its all about lifestyle and what you want out of it.

I could have become an Civil Engineer, Draftsman, Surveyer or a Farmer or any type of tradesperson.

Now who would be a farmer? They really HAVE got something to whinge about. The others on my list all do reasonable well and can go overseas if they want to earn better wages. I know of a young man who speciallises in Stone Walls who quadrupled his salary by going to England.

I know people in all the above trades/professions but none of the bitch and whinge like pilots do. Even the farmers!

[Mr.Buzzy]

Isn't it interesting that the high school drop outs at the airport security (?) checkpoint have more authority and power than the Captain of the ship? I was certainly born at the right time -- to require me to retire before being thrown in jail for telling the homeland insecurity folks what I think of them and their mothers.


Well, the good news is, today I officially retire from ******* Airlines and I was hired last week for a Service Advisor job in the automotive division of Sears (which is the first real job I had while going to college and loved it and it's what I want to do in my old age) – pay is good and it includes full medical, dental, 401k & profit sharing – should be more than enough even without the retirement money – may still consider the same line of work at a regular dealership at some point; covering my six for now ……

I'll be home every night. No more check rides – no FEDS or commuters on my jump seat taking up my office space – no more 25% PENALTY for being legitimately sick – no more scum bag hotels – no more old bitchy flight attendants – no more 14 hour duty days with 10 hour layovers – no more drafting my butt downline to fly the remains of somebody else's trip because they can't staff the airline correctly – no more zero/zero approaches into blinding thunderstorms or blizzards – no more strip searches at the security checkpoints by high school drop-outs (my I.D. means nothing) – no more Subway sandwiches at the airport served by Somalis that can never get my order right.

Can't sit down and have a hot meal between legs at a nice restaurant cause there's not enough time – no more missed recitals, birthdays or holidays – no more 3:30 am (body clock) wakeup calls on the east coast – no more number 20 for take off behind 18 little regional jets at La Guardia – no more company bus rides from the employee parking lot in machines, where either the rear door doesn't work or the A.C. or heat is out of order – no more "fear and intimidation style management" to live under. (The head honcho of the Sears store actually gave me the second and final interview – not normal.)" He actually wanted to “meet me" and said I should consider a position in management with my credentials and philosophies about how I believe people should be treated and that he was really happy to see someone like me consider a position with his company … he told me I would be an asset to any organization, unlike my current employer, that has always "behind the scenes" regarded me and my peers as liabilities and prima donnas. Go figure! I'm not unique. Most pilots at this point still fit the same mold. Unfortunately that mold is slowly and methodically being reshaped by corporate robber barons into something they can shackle to a yoke and, who they hope, will never question the methods to their madness.

The more I re-read this e-mail, the more I wonder why it has taken me so long to come to this decision to hang up flying – oh yeah, it's cause I couldn't touch my retirement money till now, penalty free. I'm finally ready for the simpler life with considerably less stress. It used to be that the airline rewarded us for all these little inconveniences we take for granted and the time we spend away from home and family that was part of our daily lives in this profession. We made good money, had considerable time off and the benefits were to brag about. That is no longer the case. My plumber makes more a year now than I do. His labor rate alone is $95.00/hr when he set my kitchen sink last May and he's a high school drop out. His yearly salary is based on a 160 hour work month (40 a week)!

My $93.00/hr and annual salary is based on an 80 hour month (hard time in the air) with considerably more time on duty and away from home. I suspect the New Airline Pilot of the future will probably be one of those kids you remember in high school that got out of classes on a 2:30pm work permit to go learn a trade because they weren't particularly bright. Of course he'll have to be on some kind of government program to pay for his training. There's no way he'll be able to come up with the $100,000.00 in flight training costs to get his licenses, and you'll never see another military pilot leave the armed forces for an air carrier position where it will take almost his entire career to reach the salary he left behind at his military job.

I would not recommend this profession anymore to anyone I really cared about. My guess is the airline industry will have to lower their standards as well as their requirements as the airplanes get more automated (the FAA will agree) if they're gonna get any applicants. Let the buyer beware when he takes his next airplane ride in the future. I have absolutely no regrets about getting out while the getting is good. I used to love my job and the adventure that every trip brought. It's just no fun going to work anymore. It's all about quality of life – unfortunately, you don't figure that out till you're on the back side of the clock, in most careers, and in the big scheme of things, approaching your own ultimate demise.

Life is really too short to devote one extra minute of your time to a company as well as a profession that is not everything you had hoped for. I'm baffled trying to think of another industry that has so brutally passed on the increased costs of doing business to their employees rather than their customers. Even my garbage man is charging a surcharge for fuel to me rather than rape his employees.

Gnadenburg
Agree with you and many of the sentiments you have shown in the past. ( yes there have been a few exceptions but such is the way )
The letter above only shows that Australian pilots are not the only target of bean counting tall poppy loppers.
Thanks for your passion, hopefully some will rub off on others and we may have a chance at uniting ourselves once again.

Seasons greetings to yourself and other Ppruners (Even you Chris Higgins!) Best wishes to all for 07. Signing out 'til the new year.

Buzzy.

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz

[The Pirate]

Anyway, as one J* pilot leaves he will be instantly be replaced from the seething pool of ambitious young pilots awaiting without. So it is movement; pilots moving upward. That cant be all bad; so who is complaining? Already "airline established" pilots that want a free ride to the top?

Or would you have these young pilots say "Oh No, I cant join J*, they are beyond the pale, voting in a naughty EBA. No, I'll stay on my Metro a bit longer! I didnt really want a Jet anyway!"

Peeease! Give me break! Get real you guys!

[3 Holer]

I know people in all the above trades/professions but none of the bitch and whinge like pilots do.

You're right Jack, they're all out working their asses off and don't have the time for idle chat!

[max autobrakes]

Spot on "last post" so to speak Mr buzzy.
All the best to you and your significant others.
Hope you have a very happy retirement.
You lucky sod.
I think this industry is going to get very ugly ,very quickly.

[The Pirate]

It's not Buzzy who's leaving! He's Quoting another!

But it is spot on!

Capt Jack Sparrow.