Morale in QANTAS
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Morale in QANTAS
Having been told by Dept Manager that morale within engineering is high, I thought I would like to hear from other engineers whether this was correct or if I was working for a different company. I would like to hear from other departments their thoughts on this matter, i.e. a venting of spleens or a tick of satisfaction with the company. I believe I know the general consensus of opinion but it would be nice to hear it from other sources.
Please no libellous comments.
Please no libellous comments.
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Mate, ask almost any "non-management" employee within Australian aviation what morale is like!
The three standard responses will vary from sh1t to sh1tter to sh1ttest!
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The three standard responses will vary from sh1t to sh1tter to sh1ttest!
bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z
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Depending on what type of person you are talking to the measurement of morale will be 1)for management Good and work its way higher. 2)For non-managent will be Good and work its way lower. Having been in the company for many years their has never been a concensus, for me it has been good bordering on pretty good, however being a pesimist I may have a slanted view but that was in the days of John Menadue(forgive the spelling) but I believe people were happier then.
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Is this a wind up or what? I would have thought from the previous Qantas posts it was pretty obvious what morale is like all round at the flying rat. Pilots happy at the 330 * badge and leave without pay? Lame's losing the heavy maintenence and more to go? Having to fix the outsourced cheapest bidder work then be told you're too exspensive? IT dissappears into the lowest bidder? Another company supported with mainline infrastructure and hardware while you are told to tighten your belt coz you want too much? Hmm let me think. Yeh sure morale would be good in that situation. The only ones who seem to be happy are the board and shareholders, the rest of the mob can see the wheels falling off. Are you fishing for the naysayers or just stirring the pot?
Nunc est bibendum
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I spoke to a mate of mine about this very topic a little while ago. He is a 20+ year veteran of QF airways and he reckons he's NEVER seen morale so low. He's also the quintessential 'company man' who loves Qantas as an airline. The difference is that he will protect the QF 'brand' and reputation at all costs but no longer gives a stuff about protecting the 'company'. An Army of one springs to mind.
I know things are bad when I hear this particular bloke talk that way because he's just about the most positive person on the planet! Very sad for what was once a great airline as well as a great company!
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I have read a lot of posts on this forum and a lot are unhappy with their lot, however there are a lot of people who welcome the opportunity to work for a company who has given them a chance to show their abilities.
I do not for one moment believe the company does anything out of the goodness of their heart as in the past, however my origonal posting was to see howmany are satisfied at this point in time with QANTAS. Is it a wind up? NO. Is it stirring the pot? YES, if it gets a lively debate from both camps then everyone is satisfied.
I do not for one moment believe the company does anything out of the goodness of their heart as in the past, however my origonal posting was to see howmany are satisfied at this point in time with QANTAS. Is it a wind up? NO. Is it stirring the pot? YES, if it gets a lively debate from both camps then everyone is satisfied.
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Apologies Mr. Spy if I came across a bit strong, it's just that these days I don't hear many positive things said about the great Australian Airline that is QANTAS. I do like creative debate and am interested to hear all sides of an argument, not just the negatives. I get a bit carried away sometimes I think it's cultural.
I really would like to hear some positives though and hope we get some posts along those lines, but I don't think we will for some reason. So please could all you satisfied, happy QANTAS people let us know how well you are being treated. I am sure it's not all that bad.
I really would like to hear some positives though and hope we get some posts along those lines, but I don't think we will for some reason. So please could all you satisfied, happy QANTAS people let us know how well you are being treated. I am sure it's not all that bad.
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Unfortunately so true
Keg ~~ Amen and ain't that the truth 
Morale? What morale?? Have never seen it so low. The despair is so blatantly obvious with QF employees I speak with in all sorts of different departments.
Very sad is an understatement.
Can only hope for an improvement 
Morale? What morale?? Have never seen it so low. The despair is so blatantly obvious with QF employees I speak with in all sorts of different departments.
Very sad is an understatement.
Can only hope for an improvement
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The Airline is undergoing a lot of changes at present. A fair number of them are required as the rules employees work under were made in different times. Nothing wrong with that, just an expression of the ongoing need for change - not always improvement.
Having said that I echo Keg's comment things are not good.
We have a management that is confrontational, belligerent and in many cases bullying. The Company has made enormous mistakes over the last six years - yes it has also made some good decisions. However the costs of the mistakes are starting to come through and will continue to do so over the next period of time.
The Company has the wrong fleet, going to the wrong places. It does not appear to recognise the changes that other Airlines are putting in place for product improvement.
Their Industrial Relations policies are woeful. They do not understand the need to lead by example but more by threat, intimidation and deceit.
The ordinary employee, as a general rule do their job to the best of their ability. They still regard the customer as the number one priority.
Employee moral will continue to be at a low ebb until the management of the Company recognise their worth and treat them reasonably. This could be as simple as telling them the truth!
Having said that I echo Keg's comment things are not good.
We have a management that is confrontational, belligerent and in many cases bullying. The Company has made enormous mistakes over the last six years - yes it has also made some good decisions. However the costs of the mistakes are starting to come through and will continue to do so over the next period of time.
The Company has the wrong fleet, going to the wrong places. It does not appear to recognise the changes that other Airlines are putting in place for product improvement.
Their Industrial Relations policies are woeful. They do not understand the need to lead by example but more by threat, intimidation and deceit.
The ordinary employee, as a general rule do their job to the best of their ability. They still regard the customer as the number one priority.
Employee moral will continue to be at a low ebb until the management of the Company recognise their worth and treat them reasonably. This could be as simple as telling them the truth!
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I have often been puzzled at why morale can be so variable.
As Mr Buzzy said, and it would be fair to say that morale is low in all parts of aviation not just Qantas. It has often been said that morale is high at airlines when they see growth. eg FO's getting commands. Yet I read the middle east forum, and the EK Pilots seem (albeit on the surface in a silent forum) to also be unhappy, yet EK are having unprecedented growth!!?? What I do think is, that we must guard against this industry heading the way history has seen another great transport industry go - the railways.
The start of the downfall, was when train travel became more accessible to the wider population ie Ryan, Easy & Jetstar etc. We must act with urgency and turn the consumers around.
Secondly, its about how see the cup - half full or half empty.
As Mr Buzzy said, and it would be fair to say that morale is low in all parts of aviation not just Qantas. It has often been said that morale is high at airlines when they see growth. eg FO's getting commands. Yet I read the middle east forum, and the EK Pilots seem (albeit on the surface in a silent forum) to also be unhappy, yet EK are having unprecedented growth!!?? What I do think is, that we must guard against this industry heading the way history has seen another great transport industry go - the railways.
The start of the downfall, was when train travel became more accessible to the wider population ie Ryan, Easy & Jetstar etc. We must act with urgency and turn the consumers around.
Secondly, its about how see the cup - half full or half empty.
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Gents,
I am over the whole Qantas low morale thing. If your morale is low and you don’t like were your company is taking you, you have a very powerful option. LEAVE. There are plenty of jobs for LAME, AME and pilots all over the country and indeed globally.
Stop bleating.
I am over the whole Qantas low morale thing. If your morale is low and you don’t like were your company is taking you, you have a very powerful option. LEAVE. There are plenty of jobs for LAME, AME and pilots all over the country and indeed globally.
Stop bleating.
Nunc est bibendum
I do not enjoy being treated like an idiot. I do not enjoy being told that my operational culture would 'pollute' the LCC even if I did want to go across there. I do not like having my association negotiate an MoU in good faith only to have the conditions imposed by the LCC so restrictive that very few people can take advantage of it. I do not enjoy being told that my colleagues in the SH side of things don't even deserve a pay rise whilst Dixon et al take bonuses and pay rises and sorts of largesse at everyone elses expense. I do not enjoy that the LCC is artificially 'propped up' by my QF mainline bretheren whilst we are told that our costs aren't competitive. I do not like the penny pinching cost of everything, value of nothing attitude that continually flows down. I do not like having to apologise to passengers ad infinitum about why the service they are getting is crap because of some company stuff up that has occurred because we're penny pinching. I do not like providing feedback to some new change thought up by someone who lives and works in an office, only to be ignored- and then have that same office dwelling genius discover 1 month to 3 years later that perhaps that change wasn't smart after all ('boxes', removing hand towels from business, etc, etc, etc). I do not like seeing colleagues (not just pilots) bullied by others- be they management or just those senior to them in rank.
Griffinblack, someone else asked the question and so I'm not bleating, I'm just contributing to the discussion. If you don't like the contributions take your own advice and LEAVE. No one forces you to read the thread. No one forces you to hit the 'submit reply' button. So if you're not going to contribute to the discussion then wrack off. Just because I'm still at QF (and love it as an airline) doesn't mean that I'm happy with the direction it is taking or the way I'm treated. Is it that bad yet that I'll leave? Not quite but for a few it is....and they're going and in much larger numbers than I've ever seen previously at QF. For someone who has always seen QF as my career that is incredibly worrying. So feel free to contribute to the ongoing discussion if you'd like but given your first contribution I'm not banking on you providing anything that would be particularly worthwhile!
Last edited by Keg; 17th Nov 2006 at 08:23. Reason: Edited to include griffin's post to make it clear that I had changed who I was talking to.
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I concur also Mr Keg, I especially like the way you allude to the wonderful MBA style of modern managers. All degree no experience, lets just cut costs now so I look good in the short term and who cares what happens in the future coz I won't be here. I'll be destroying some other company with my short sighted bottom line tightening restructuring by the time my current company implodes.
Sorry that cultural thing took hold again and I bleated.
Sorry that cultural thing took hold again and I bleated.
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All degree no experience, lets just cut costs now so I look good in the short term and who cares what happens in the future coz I won't be here.
Could I ask politely what would please QF staff and lift moral to the heights it once was, without making the airline run at a cost disadvantage and then be subject to all manner of ailments that we have seen elsewhere in the last decade or so?
Lets face it; running an airline and airline travel have changed; forever. We cant go back to the halceon days where governments propped up the national carrier(s). Look at Air France, KLM, Sabena (and all the Belgian Airlines of the 90's) they would not or could not change and went under. (Well actually Air France is a dead airline walking, sorry, flying; has been for years)
But I do agree with all that has been said about NAM (new age management); they dont understand an old adage:- It's all about looking after your people, and if you manage them well they will follow you anywhere. Read increased productivity.
Can the above two, seemingly apposed, theories ever go hand in hand? ie Reduce costs and keep staff happy?????
Lets face it; running an airline and airline travel have changed; forever. We cant go back to the halceon days where governments propped up the national carrier(s). Look at Air France, KLM, Sabena (and all the Belgian Airlines of the 90's) they would not or could not change and went under. (Well actually Air France is a dead airline walking, sorry, flying; has been for years)
But I do agree with all that has been said about NAM (new age management); they dont understand an old adage:- It's all about looking after your people, and if you manage them well they will follow you anywhere. Read increased productivity.
Can the above two, seemingly apposed, theories ever go hand in hand? ie Reduce costs and keep staff happy?????
Nunc est bibendum
Perhaps something like this may help:
The differences between Jim Sinegal and Geoff Dixon are obvious and frightening.
(I should note too that I've edited out some non relevant stuff about the business.)
ugust 2, 2006 — What's the secret behind building a multibillion-dollar business empire that has instant name recognition? You might think it depends on a CEO who's ruthlessly competitive and drives company workers relentlessly. Well, Jim Sinegal isn't your typical CEO, and Costco, the business he founded, is not your typical store.
While it may be unorthodox, nobody could say Sinegal's business strategy isn't working......
And Sinegal isn't just interested in taking care of his customers. He wants to take good care of his employees.
"It's a good place to work; they take care of us," said one Costco employee who spoke with "20/20" correspondent Bill Ritter.
And when Sinegal walks into one of his stores, he's treated like a celebrity. His employees seem to genuinely like him. And the feeling's mutual.
"The employees know that I want to say hello to them, because I like them," he said.
Just Jim
Unlike the stereotypical CEO, Sinegal doesn't try to distance himself from his employees. He even wears a name tag — but not one that says "Jim, the CEO" or "Jim, Costco Founder." It just says Jim. He easily could be mistaken for a stock clerk.
His philosophy is simple, he said. "We have said from the very beginning: 'We're going to be a company that's on a first-name basis with everyone,'" he said.
That also includes answering his own phone. "If a customer's calling and they have a gripe, don't you think they kind of enjoy the fact that I picked up the phone and talked to them?" he said.
The son of a steelworker, Sinegal began in the warehouse business, loading mattresses. Sinegal's working-class values are ingrained in Costco's corporate culture. That may in fact be the key to the company's success
"Our code of ethics says we have to obey the law. We have to take care of our customers, take care of our people. And if we do those things, we think that we'll reward our shareholders," Sinegal said.
He certainly has rewarded them. This year's sales total more than $52 billion from 462 stores in 37 states and eight countries. Costco is now the nation's fourth-largest retailer, selling everything from crab legs to flat-screen TVs to caskets — and even a Picasso painting.
Rewarding Loyalty
And Sinegal is the tireless show producer, managing from the road, hopping on the corporate jet, and visiting up to a dozen Costco stores a day.
"No manager and no staff in any business feels very good if the boss is not interested enough to come and see them," he said.
And Sinegal says he's also built a loyal work force. In fact, Costco has the lowest employee turnover rate in retailing. Its turnover is five times lower than its chief rival, Wal-Mart. And Costco pays higher than average wages 40 percent more than Sam's Club, the warehouse chain owned by Wal-Mart. And it offers better-than-average benefits, including health care coverage to more than 90 percent of its work force.
Costco doesn't have a P.R. department and it doesn't spend a dime on advertising. There's a real business advantage to treating employees well, Sinegal said. "Imagine that you have 120,000 loyal ambassadors out there who are constantly saying good things about Costco. It has to be a significant advantage for you," he explained.
Many Costco workers have been with the company since it was founded in 1983. Once hired, they rarely leave.
Susan MaConnaha, a Costco vice president and head baker, said working for Costco is a family affair. "My whole family works for Costco, my husband does, my daughter does, my new son-in-law does," she said.
And Sinegal rewards that loyalty. "We promote almost 100 percent from within our company. We have guys who started pushing shopping carts out on the parking lot for us who are now vice presidents of our company," he said.
In an era when many CEOs are seen as greedy and sometimes corrupt, Sinegal is proving that good guys can finish first — and without all the corporate frills. Sinegal even sends out his own faxes from his bare-bones office-without-walls at company headquarters near Seattle. But the most remarkable thing about Sinegal is his salary — $350,000 a year, a fraction of the millions most large corporate CEOs make.
"I figured that if I was making something like 12 times more than the typical person working on the floor, that that was a fair salary," he said.
Of course, as a co-founder of the company, Sinegal owns a lot of Costco's stock — more than $150 million worth. He's rich, but only on paper.
Nell Minow, editor and founder of the Corporate Library and an expert on corporate governance, said she was shocked to discover that Sinegal's employment contract is only a page long. "I would love to clone him," she said.
"Of the 2,000 companies in our database, he has the single shortest CEO employment contract. And the only one, which specifically says, he can be — believe it or not — 'terminated for cause.' If he doesn't do his job, he is out the door," Minow said.
Sinegal admits that "paying high wages [to his employees] is contrary to conventional wisdom."
And conventional wisdom in this case comes from Wall Street. Analysts seem to be the only critics of Costco and Sinegal. They think the company could make even more money if it paid its workers less — like Wal-Mart does.
Sinegal is unfazed by his critics. "Wall Street is in the business of making money between now and next Tuesday," he said. "We're in the business of building an organization, an institution that we hope will be here 50 years from now. And paying good wages and keeping your people working with you is very good business."
What Sinegal has proven is that a company doesn't have to be ruthless. Being humane and ethical can also make you money.
While it may be unorthodox, nobody could say Sinegal's business strategy isn't working......
And Sinegal isn't just interested in taking care of his customers. He wants to take good care of his employees.
"It's a good place to work; they take care of us," said one Costco employee who spoke with "20/20" correspondent Bill Ritter.
And when Sinegal walks into one of his stores, he's treated like a celebrity. His employees seem to genuinely like him. And the feeling's mutual.
"The employees know that I want to say hello to them, because I like them," he said.
Just Jim
Unlike the stereotypical CEO, Sinegal doesn't try to distance himself from his employees. He even wears a name tag — but not one that says "Jim, the CEO" or "Jim, Costco Founder." It just says Jim. He easily could be mistaken for a stock clerk.
His philosophy is simple, he said. "We have said from the very beginning: 'We're going to be a company that's on a first-name basis with everyone,'" he said.
That also includes answering his own phone. "If a customer's calling and they have a gripe, don't you think they kind of enjoy the fact that I picked up the phone and talked to them?" he said.
The son of a steelworker, Sinegal began in the warehouse business, loading mattresses. Sinegal's working-class values are ingrained in Costco's corporate culture. That may in fact be the key to the company's success
"Our code of ethics says we have to obey the law. We have to take care of our customers, take care of our people. And if we do those things, we think that we'll reward our shareholders," Sinegal said.
He certainly has rewarded them. This year's sales total more than $52 billion from 462 stores in 37 states and eight countries. Costco is now the nation's fourth-largest retailer, selling everything from crab legs to flat-screen TVs to caskets — and even a Picasso painting.
Rewarding Loyalty
And Sinegal is the tireless show producer, managing from the road, hopping on the corporate jet, and visiting up to a dozen Costco stores a day.
"No manager and no staff in any business feels very good if the boss is not interested enough to come and see them," he said.
And Sinegal says he's also built a loyal work force. In fact, Costco has the lowest employee turnover rate in retailing. Its turnover is five times lower than its chief rival, Wal-Mart. And Costco pays higher than average wages 40 percent more than Sam's Club, the warehouse chain owned by Wal-Mart. And it offers better-than-average benefits, including health care coverage to more than 90 percent of its work force.
Costco doesn't have a P.R. department and it doesn't spend a dime on advertising. There's a real business advantage to treating employees well, Sinegal said. "Imagine that you have 120,000 loyal ambassadors out there who are constantly saying good things about Costco. It has to be a significant advantage for you," he explained.
Many Costco workers have been with the company since it was founded in 1983. Once hired, they rarely leave.
Susan MaConnaha, a Costco vice president and head baker, said working for Costco is a family affair. "My whole family works for Costco, my husband does, my daughter does, my new son-in-law does," she said.
And Sinegal rewards that loyalty. "We promote almost 100 percent from within our company. We have guys who started pushing shopping carts out on the parking lot for us who are now vice presidents of our company," he said.
In an era when many CEOs are seen as greedy and sometimes corrupt, Sinegal is proving that good guys can finish first — and without all the corporate frills. Sinegal even sends out his own faxes from his bare-bones office-without-walls at company headquarters near Seattle. But the most remarkable thing about Sinegal is his salary — $350,000 a year, a fraction of the millions most large corporate CEOs make.
"I figured that if I was making something like 12 times more than the typical person working on the floor, that that was a fair salary," he said.
Of course, as a co-founder of the company, Sinegal owns a lot of Costco's stock — more than $150 million worth. He's rich, but only on paper.
Nell Minow, editor and founder of the Corporate Library and an expert on corporate governance, said she was shocked to discover that Sinegal's employment contract is only a page long. "I would love to clone him," she said.
"Of the 2,000 companies in our database, he has the single shortest CEO employment contract. And the only one, which specifically says, he can be — believe it or not — 'terminated for cause.' If he doesn't do his job, he is out the door," Minow said.
Sinegal admits that "paying high wages [to his employees] is contrary to conventional wisdom."
And conventional wisdom in this case comes from Wall Street. Analysts seem to be the only critics of Costco and Sinegal. They think the company could make even more money if it paid its workers less — like Wal-Mart does.
Sinegal is unfazed by his critics. "Wall Street is in the business of making money between now and next Tuesday," he said. "We're in the business of building an organization, an institution that we hope will be here 50 years from now. And paying good wages and keeping your people working with you is very good business."
What Sinegal has proven is that a company doesn't have to be ruthless. Being humane and ethical can also make you money.
(I should note too that I've edited out some non relevant stuff about the business.)
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If your morale is low and you don’t like were your company is taking you, you have a very powerful option. LEAVE.
What disappoints me the most is that the company has let it get so bad that these young, talented blokes no longer feel there is a future for them at QANTAS. The worst bit is management are sticking their head in the sand and not just not caring, they're not making any effort to do anything about it! I know for a fact the chief pilot did not even make contact at any stage with the FO who has left!!