R M Ansett
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R M Ansett
To those "young'ns who were not around then- and the "oldies" who were- here is your chance to learn more about one of the Greats in Australian aviation.
ABC Channel 2.."Dynasties"..Monday, Nov 20 and Mon Nov 27 at 2000 hrs will be screening the life of "R M"
I consider myself privileged to have worked for him and met him on several occasions.
As a very junior f/o I remember being told that in the early days (post war) there were several occasions he came into the crew room and asked the troops if they could hold off on recieving their pay until next week and being happy to do so. How many Bosses would be able to try that on these days and get co operation. Come to think of it..how many bosses would even go into the crew room and talk to the troops.
His door was always open if you had a grievance..I remember the DC9 crewing as one instance.
EMERITUS
May be a good time for a few anecdotes?
ABC Channel 2.."Dynasties"..Monday, Nov 20 and Mon Nov 27 at 2000 hrs will be screening the life of "R M"
I consider myself privileged to have worked for him and met him on several occasions.
As a very junior f/o I remember being told that in the early days (post war) there were several occasions he came into the crew room and asked the troops if they could hold off on recieving their pay until next week and being happy to do so. How many Bosses would be able to try that on these days and get co operation. Come to think of it..how many bosses would even go into the crew room and talk to the troops.
His door was always open if you had a grievance..I remember the DC9 crewing as one instance.
EMERITUS
May be a good time for a few anecdotes?
Moderator
Only ever met him the once on an F27 flight to the NSW property so I can only pass on an anecdote from a couple of much older ex-Ansett LAMEs .. appears that, in the early days, RM made a practice of turning up in the wee hours at the EN hangars to sit down with the maintainers and chew the fat .. that impressed me no end. It doesn't surprise me at all about the pay tale .. in the early days of my time at Ansett, I think that the pilot group still had a lot of that attitude .. perhaps not so after some other folk came along and sold RM's helicopter so he couldn't even come into the office to fill in his days ..
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Yeah. He couldn't just drive up from Mt Eliza to Town like the plebs. Helicopter or nothing.
I once saw him returning from a pheasant hunt with his retriever dog getting on the Bell helicopter at the yarra heliport to head on home to the sprawling estate at Mount Eliza. The dog didn't get a seat belt but sat up on the rear seat as if ALL dogs did this, just like him.
I once saw him returning from a pheasant hunt with his retriever dog getting on the Bell helicopter at the yarra heliport to head on home to the sprawling estate at Mount Eliza. The dog didn't get a seat belt but sat up on the rear seat as if ALL dogs did this, just like him.
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RM made a practice of turning up in the wee hours at the EN hangars to sit down with the maintainers and chew the fat .. that impressed me no end.
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King Oath - Sir Reg Ansett set the tone by commuting in his own helicopter - and why not?
These days the late Kerry Packer and others have taken a leaf out of his book.
Why waste time driving when you can fly???
I used to fly with an F/O that was a junior apprentice at Essendon many years ago.
He was out the back washing his car when Sir Reginald rocks up.
With a long cheesy grin Sir Reg says "whatyer doing there boy?"..... "washing my car Mr Ansett" was the sheepish reply from this 17 year old.
Sir Reg just laughed, threw him his own keys and said "I'll be back in half an hour lad, your doing such a good job there you can clean my car too!"
With that Sir Reg went into the hangars and spoke to the heavy maintenance engineers till his car was washed!
He made a point of thanking this apprentice afterwards before driving off.
One of aviations characters.
These days the late Kerry Packer and others have taken a leaf out of his book.
Why waste time driving when you can fly???
I used to fly with an F/O that was a junior apprentice at Essendon many years ago.
He was out the back washing his car when Sir Reginald rocks up.
With a long cheesy grin Sir Reg says "whatyer doing there boy?"..... "washing my car Mr Ansett" was the sheepish reply from this 17 year old.
Sir Reg just laughed, threw him his own keys and said "I'll be back in half an hour lad, your doing such a good job there you can clean my car too!"
With that Sir Reg went into the hangars and spoke to the heavy maintenance engineers till his car was washed!
He made a point of thanking this apprentice afterwards before driving off.
One of aviations characters.
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I also did one of the F27 trips to Narrandera with Sir Reg and his family. I suspect it might have been one of the last if not the last, as he was very unwell and could walk only with the aid of sticks. I have to admit it was a bit of a buzz for a very junior FO to be called out for a trip like that.
I don't know any details of how he mistreated his family. Unfortunately, as a classic 'alpha male', if it's true, he was not alone in that. I know he made a lot of business enemies in his early days. Sadly, you don't make it to the top in the corporate world without leaving a few bodies in your wake, but whatever he did, he didn't hold a candle in nastiness to one of the men who bought AN from him.
I know people who were part of ANA and Butlers never forgave him for what he did to two wonderful companies in those two takeovers. But I also know that 1989 would never have been allowed to sink into the bottomless pit it did if RM had still been at the helm of AN at the time, for too many of the senior pilots, (and quite a few of the junior ones as well), simply had too much respect for him to allow things to go as far as they did. Wahtever his faults, he was able to engender loyalty in his staff in a way that other Knight of the Realm was never able to do.
I have asked myself a number of times what might have been if there hadn't been such bad blood between RM and his son, Bob. I wonder what AN might have become if Bob Ansett had taken over the helm at AN in 1979 and had been able to inject the enthusiasm, fresh ideas and drive into the airline that he did into Budget.
Very big word 'if'....
I don't know any details of how he mistreated his family. Unfortunately, as a classic 'alpha male', if it's true, he was not alone in that. I know he made a lot of business enemies in his early days. Sadly, you don't make it to the top in the corporate world without leaving a few bodies in your wake, but whatever he did, he didn't hold a candle in nastiness to one of the men who bought AN from him.
I know people who were part of ANA and Butlers never forgave him for what he did to two wonderful companies in those two takeovers. But I also know that 1989 would never have been allowed to sink into the bottomless pit it did if RM had still been at the helm of AN at the time, for too many of the senior pilots, (and quite a few of the junior ones as well), simply had too much respect for him to allow things to go as far as they did. Wahtever his faults, he was able to engender loyalty in his staff in a way that other Knight of the Realm was never able to do.
I have asked myself a number of times what might have been if there hadn't been such bad blood between RM and his son, Bob. I wonder what AN might have become if Bob Ansett had taken over the helm at AN in 1979 and had been able to inject the enthusiasm, fresh ideas and drive into the airline that he did into Budget.
Very big word 'if'....
Last edited by Wiley; 20th Nov 2006 at 03:43. Reason: Thanks to 'dodgybrothers' for the 'Budget' correction
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I often wondered why he was so tough on his son. Maybe he was just trying to toughen him up to run the empire when he retired. THen again maybe he saw his son as a potential competitor - another alpha male in the family.
But an interesting bloke no doubt.
But an interesting bloke no doubt.
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I believe the ABC features the Ansett family on its Dynasties programme airing (in Sydney at any rate) at 8 tonight. This is a two part episode and should be worth watching.
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Wiley
After watching last nights episode I am not so sure about your statement. He was ruthless, especially when it came to things like salaries. He demanded a lot but gave very little, for example the comments made by his former PA, I thought, were very enlightening. His reactions when anyone didn't agree with him was ruthless. Anyone remember his opposition to female flight crews? Anyone remember his comments about "Old Boilers" when the flight attendants wanted a pay rise? 
I am also convinced that he was able to become as "powerful" as he did because he was in regulated industries. Initially he fought against them but ultimately benefited. During the "hay days" (sp?) of Ansett the airline industry was heavily regulated to protect the two principle players. Because of the two airline policy Australia delayed getting jets as TAA wanted to get the French Caravelle, RM didn't so we got the Electra instead as both airlines had to get the same equipment. Same prices, same timetable, same ports of call!
The television industry was the same, as well as being a licence to print money, in the early days. Gawd, the bleedin things were never off when it started.
I think time and the subsequent demise of Ansett has made memories somewhat fonder than the reality. When the company was taken off him it was in no real shape to cope with the deregulation that was starting to fundamentally change the industry. As such it could be said that his ruthless control of Ansett was one of the reasons for its ultimate failure.
But I also know that 1989 would never have been allowed to sink into the bottomless pit it did if RM had still been at the helm of AN at the time, for too many of the senior pilots, (and quite a few of the junior ones as well), simply had too much respect for him to allow things to go as far as they did.
I am also convinced that he was able to become as "powerful" as he did because he was in regulated industries. Initially he fought against them but ultimately benefited. During the "hay days" (sp?) of Ansett the airline industry was heavily regulated to protect the two principle players. Because of the two airline policy Australia delayed getting jets as TAA wanted to get the French Caravelle, RM didn't so we got the Electra instead as both airlines had to get the same equipment. Same prices, same timetable, same ports of call!
The television industry was the same, as well as being a licence to print money, in the early days. Gawd, the bleedin things were never off when it started.
I think time and the subsequent demise of Ansett has made memories somewhat fonder than the reality. When the company was taken off him it was in no real shape to cope with the deregulation that was starting to fundamentally change the industry. As such it could be said that his ruthless control of Ansett was one of the reasons for its ultimate failure.
Saw some of it last night. Lorna still is a striking woman. Good to see Bondy looking so young.True about the pay, the thing was that there was no competition betwen Ansett and TAA. The two HR departments had an unwritten "gentlemens agreement" not to hire or compete for each others staff. Ticket prices, and a whole range of other issues, were decided over a few beers at Mac's.
The first thing Abeles did was to prohibit alcohol consumption during office hours, that put a major dent in the "Mac's" lunchtime culture, then he removed certain alcoholic managers (leaving just one, RB)
Reg Ansett didn't stuff the company, some of his managers did it for him while he was too sick to notice.
I still pine for the old Hayman Island, and the annual leave upgrade and suchlike. Lunchtime cricket. Overseas trips to Seattle, LA, Hamburg, etc. The wombat squadron and all. Thank Christ I got out when I did before all that ended.
The first thing Abeles did was to prohibit alcohol consumption during office hours, that put a major dent in the "Mac's" lunchtime culture, then he removed certain alcoholic managers (leaving just one, RB)
Reg Ansett didn't stuff the company, some of his managers did it for him while he was too sick to notice.
I still pine for the old Hayman Island, and the annual leave upgrade and suchlike. Lunchtime cricket. Overseas trips to Seattle, LA, Hamburg, etc. The wombat squadron and all. Thank Christ I got out when I did before all that ended.
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I think everyone knew what a ruthless businessman he was, it was sad though to see how he treated his own family.
Certainly agree about Ken Bond, he doesn't look a day older than when I last saw him almost 20 years ago, what is his secret?
Certainly agree about Ken Bond, he doesn't look a day older than when I last saw him almost 20 years ago, what is his secret?
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I don't disagree with any of your comments, PLovett. But I stand by my comment - whatever his faults, he was able to engender a quite fierce loyalty in many if not most of his staff, (including most of the "old boilers").
He was by no means alone in his resistance to female pilots. I think the 'enlighened ones' on that subject were few and far between among the pilot group right up to - (and for some, quite a while after)- Debbie's arrival. It might not be fashionable today to admit it, but the attitude of the vast majority of pilots and management then was that a woman would go off and have a family after a few years and therefore keep a male out of a job who would stay full time until retirement.
I'd still like to have seen what Bob Ansett might have done with the company. I doubt he'd have asset stripped it quite as ruthlessly as Pytor and the Dirty Digger did.
He was by no means alone in his resistance to female pilots. I think the 'enlighened ones' on that subject were few and far between among the pilot group right up to - (and for some, quite a while after)- Debbie's arrival. It might not be fashionable today to admit it, but the attitude of the vast majority of pilots and management then was that a woman would go off and have a family after a few years and therefore keep a male out of a job who would stay full time until retirement.
I'd still like to have seen what Bob Ansett might have done with the company. I doubt he'd have asset stripped it quite as ruthlessly as Pytor and the Dirty Digger did.
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Have to agree with you Wiley, he certainly engendered loyalty which I find quite strange in the circumstances but then I never worked for any of varieties of Ansett. I have spoken to many who did and they all say the same, that it was a great company to work for.
I totally agree with the rest of your comments, especially about asset stripping. There was a very interesting story going about when Rod Eddington was brought back to Australia to take over the helm at Ansett. He, apparently, thought his job was to restructure the company to build it for the future. It appears he was very quickly disabused of that idea and told that he was to make it look good on paper so that it could be sold.
Orders are orders and he did the job. The company was sold to Air NZ and the rest is history.
I totally agree with the rest of your comments, especially about asset stripping. There was a very interesting story going about when Rod Eddington was brought back to Australia to take over the helm at Ansett. He, apparently, thought his job was to restructure the company to build it for the future. It appears he was very quickly disabused of that idea and told that he was to make it look good on paper so that it could be sold.
Orders are orders and he did the job. The company was sold to Air NZ and the rest is history.
Perhaps the reason he engendered such fierce loyalty was that he was very liberal in doling out recognition of good work, as were people like Bondy and a lot of others. Its a pity Qantas can't do the same (see the Qantas Morale Thread), maybe it would improve their morale.
The management structure was pretty flat, but there was recognition at all levels and there was never, to my knowledge, the suggestion that we were simply unimportant drones.
To put it another way, we only had a vague idea of who was on the Board of the company, we didn't hang breathlessly on Board decisions made by business superstars. We simply got on with the job and were occasionally recognised for it - and got a kick in the backside if we didn't do it right as well. Ansett was an inclusive culture.
Let me give you just a few examples that I'm aware of.
- As a lowly cubicle dweller, I was part of the team who worked on 767 purchase. I got sent to Seattle and was wined and dined and watched them build the first prototype.
- I got sent as a "representative of the company" to numerous ATA meetings in the States, again as a lowly cubicle dweller, went to Europe a few times as well.
- A stack of LAME's of all ages went to Seattle, they were extremely well looked after by Boeing.
The team who worked out the 767 entry into service - which was a big thankless job, were told the week before it arrived to pack their bags, they were going on the roadshow with the aircraft, and they did the full tour of capital cities with the best of accomodation and refreshments.
I'll get all teary in a minute (sniff)
The management structure was pretty flat, but there was recognition at all levels and there was never, to my knowledge, the suggestion that we were simply unimportant drones.
To put it another way, we only had a vague idea of who was on the Board of the company, we didn't hang breathlessly on Board decisions made by business superstars. We simply got on with the job and were occasionally recognised for it - and got a kick in the backside if we didn't do it right as well. Ansett was an inclusive culture.
Let me give you just a few examples that I'm aware of.
- As a lowly cubicle dweller, I was part of the team who worked on 767 purchase. I got sent to Seattle and was wined and dined and watched them build the first prototype.
- I got sent as a "representative of the company" to numerous ATA meetings in the States, again as a lowly cubicle dweller, went to Europe a few times as well.
- A stack of LAME's of all ages went to Seattle, they were extremely well looked after by Boeing.
The team who worked out the 767 entry into service - which was a big thankless job, were told the week before it arrived to pack their bags, they were going on the roadshow with the aircraft, and they did the full tour of capital cities with the best of accomodation and refreshments.
I'll get all teary in a minute (sniff)
Perhaps the reason he engendered such fierce loyalty was that he was very liberal in doling out recognition of good work, as were people like Bondy and a lot of others. Its a pity Qantas can't do the same (see the Qantas Morale Thread), maybe it would improve their morale.
The management structure was pretty flat, but there was recognition at all levels and there was never, to my knowledge, the suggestion that we were simply unimportant drones.
To put it another way, we only had a vague idea of who was on the Board of the company, we didn't hang breathlessly on Board decisions made by business superstars. We simply got on with the job and were occasionally recognised for it - and got a kick in the backside if we didn't do it right as well. Ansett was an inclusive culture.
Let me give you just a few examples that I'm aware of.
- As a lowly cubicle dweller, I was part of the team who worked on 767 purchase. I got sent to Seattle and was wined and dined and watched them build the first prototype.
- I got sent as a "representative of the company" to numerous ATA meetings in the States, again as a lowly cubicle dweller, went to Europe a few times as well.
- A stack of LAME's of all ages went to Seattle, they were extremely well looked after by Boeing.
The team who worked out the 767 entry into service - which was a big thankless job, were told the week before it arrived to pack their bags, they were going on the roadshow with the aircraft, and they did the full tour of capital cities with the best of accomodation and refreshments.
I'll get all teary in a minute (sniff)
The management structure was pretty flat, but there was recognition at all levels and there was never, to my knowledge, the suggestion that we were simply unimportant drones.
To put it another way, we only had a vague idea of who was on the Board of the company, we didn't hang breathlessly on Board decisions made by business superstars. We simply got on with the job and were occasionally recognised for it - and got a kick in the backside if we didn't do it right as well. Ansett was an inclusive culture.
Let me give you just a few examples that I'm aware of.
- As a lowly cubicle dweller, I was part of the team who worked on 767 purchase. I got sent to Seattle and was wined and dined and watched them build the first prototype.
- I got sent as a "representative of the company" to numerous ATA meetings in the States, again as a lowly cubicle dweller, went to Europe a few times as well.
- A stack of LAME's of all ages went to Seattle, they were extremely well looked after by Boeing.
The team who worked out the 767 entry into service - which was a big thankless job, were told the week before it arrived to pack their bags, they were going on the roadshow with the aircraft, and they did the full tour of capital cities with the best of accomodation and refreshments.
I'll get all teary in a minute (sniff)
Reg Ansett had been agonising re a wide body decision for some time. He was leaning towards the A300 to uphold the 2 Airline Policy that had protected Ansett since the purchase of ANA in 1957.
The Boeing order was finalised with Tex Bouillon of Boeing at Rupes property on a Saturday evening. When the Flight Dept and Engineering were told on the Monday that 12 x B737-200's and 4 x B727-200LR's were also coming in addition to the 5 x B767-200's everyone went into panic mode, especially the Flight Dept where the jockeying began with Mal Wheaton, Ted Walters etc.
Similar situations occured when Abeles ordered the A320 at the Paris Air Show (AN was the launch customer) and the 72 x Bae146 order (against the wishes of the Flight Dept and Engineering).
At least there was agreement on the F50 order (AN was the launch customer).
The Sydney based master BAe salesman was John Canning-Cooke who went to Abeles SYD office after no interest was shown in the BAe146 in MEL. After the order was placed Abeles had the use of the BAE company jet registered VH-JCC. John Canning-Cooke passed away from Cancer before he saw his BAe146's in large numbers in Australia.
Ahh Ansett was an interesting place to work !!!
I guess it can now be said........
Junior Buchanan knew and greatly respected Reg Ansett - they had many similarities - but viewed Ansett as a very serious competitor to his PNG aspirations, particularly their intentions regarding Air Niugini and their relationship with the PNG Prime Minister.
At some point, maybe the early 80's, Junior was approached to buy into or take over Ansett. Junior was hyper active for days as we digested the offer, egged on by Reg's earlier success buying out his far larger competitor, ANA.
In the end we rejected the offer. The resulting debt would have been very difficult to service and the broker involved certainly "failed to inspire confidence".
It was an interesting time and ultimately inspired our failed Talair offer to take over Air Niugini.
Junior Buchanan knew and greatly respected Reg Ansett - they had many similarities - but viewed Ansett as a very serious competitor to his PNG aspirations, particularly their intentions regarding Air Niugini and their relationship with the PNG Prime Minister.
At some point, maybe the early 80's, Junior was approached to buy into or take over Ansett. Junior was hyper active for days as we digested the offer, egged on by Reg's earlier success buying out his far larger competitor, ANA.
In the end we rejected the offer. The resulting debt would have been very difficult to service and the broker involved certainly "failed to inspire confidence".
It was an interesting time and ultimately inspired our failed Talair offer to take over Air Niugini.
B772, correct, we actually had the slots booked for the A300 as I recall.
The thing about Boeings offer is that it looked at all our needs and we had two problems at the time.
The first was that TAA would get the A300 first and we couldn't get one for at least 18 months I think leaving us at a serious disadvantage especially on the Perth run, which I don't think we could do direct and secondly because the A300 had a much better first class. The 767 was going to be at least two years away.
The second was our need for a DC9 replacement.
The Boeing proposal gave us the 727ER's (leased or buyback as I recall until the 767 was available) so we could do the direct flights. It gave us the 737 to replace the DC9 - and that was a competitive advantage against TAA (who wants to fly in a railway tunnel?).
We were the first international customer for the 767 which gave us a very good price.
The whole thing was financed by the U.S. Exim bank at three and a bit percent (well below market rates). Rupert had had lunch with Jimmy Carter(?) at the Whitehouse a few weeks before which allegedly helped a bit.
I was one of the 146 tire kickers and I could find little to like about the aircraft and the condescending manner of the British sales team didn't help either. Saw the first prototype of the 146 (can't remember Hatfield or Filton) as my brother in law was an BAe engineer. The reason it had four engines is that there wasn't another engine around with the necesaary power as a twin so it got the bloody ALF504 or whatever its called. Still have the 146 cufflinks though.
P.S. Guess what happened to the DC9's? Anyone remember L H?
The thing about Boeings offer is that it looked at all our needs and we had two problems at the time.
The first was that TAA would get the A300 first and we couldn't get one for at least 18 months I think leaving us at a serious disadvantage especially on the Perth run, which I don't think we could do direct and secondly because the A300 had a much better first class. The 767 was going to be at least two years away.
The second was our need for a DC9 replacement.
The Boeing proposal gave us the 727ER's (leased or buyback as I recall until the 767 was available) so we could do the direct flights. It gave us the 737 to replace the DC9 - and that was a competitive advantage against TAA (who wants to fly in a railway tunnel?).
We were the first international customer for the 767 which gave us a very good price.
The whole thing was financed by the U.S. Exim bank at three and a bit percent (well below market rates). Rupert had had lunch with Jimmy Carter(?) at the Whitehouse a few weeks before which allegedly helped a bit.
I was one of the 146 tire kickers and I could find little to like about the aircraft and the condescending manner of the British sales team didn't help either. Saw the first prototype of the 146 (can't remember Hatfield or Filton) as my brother in law was an BAe engineer. The reason it had four engines is that there wasn't another engine around with the necesaary power as a twin so it got the bloody ALF504 or whatever its called. Still have the 146 cufflinks though.
P.S. Guess what happened to the DC9's? Anyone remember L H?