Fog in Perth
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Fog in Perth
I was amazed to see the fog roll in at 0130 last Sat morning.
some aircraft got caught short on fuel after several missed approaches
Qantas made a Mayday and did an autoland in very low vis.
It seems alternate airport fuel should be mandatory all flights- to prevent this.
Some International carriers do carry Adelaide fuel at night on all flights.
some aircraft got caught short on fuel after several missed approaches
Qantas made a Mayday and did an autoland in very low vis.
It seems alternate airport fuel should be mandatory all flights- to prevent this.
Some International carriers do carry Adelaide fuel at night on all flights.
ATSB factual info here
YPPH Wx a little later
SPECI YPPH 151619Z 03005KT 0700 FG BKN001 14/14 Q1016 FM1619 VRB03KT 0300 FG BKN001
METAR YPPH 151630Z 02005KT 0300 FG OVC001 14/14 Q1016 NOSIG
METAR YPPH 151700Z 04005KT 0150 FG OVC001 15/15 Q1016 RMK WBD 0.1 CHECK ATIS FOR CURRENT RWY VIS NOSIG
It wasn't going to get any better for a while ....
YPPH Wx a little later
SPECI YPPH 151619Z 03005KT 0700 FG BKN001 14/14 Q1016 FM1619 VRB03KT 0300 FG BKN001
METAR YPPH 151630Z 02005KT 0300 FG OVC001 14/14 Q1016 NOSIG
METAR YPPH 151700Z 04005KT 0150 FG OVC001 15/15 Q1016 RMK WBD 0.1 CHECK ATIS FOR CURRENT RWY VIS NOSIG
It wasn't going to get any better for a while ....
Fog :This time of the year can get very interesting
when we get the new brick works (at the actual airport itself) in the near future it will make for interesting arrivals after midnight and in the "wee" hours of the morning . it will only make the fog worse.
thank god for autoland capability on some aircraft !!!!!!!!!!!!
cheers
dijon moutard
thank god for autoland capability on some aircraft !!!!!!!!!!!!
cheers
dijon moutard
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Isn't fixed reserves to account for the one in twenty year event like that? Where do you draw the line? Enough fuel for how far a divert??
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The appearance of fog at Perth airport may not be a 1 in 20 event but fog (or mist) with vis reduced below Cat I mins at just the Actual Time of Arrival of a flight may be a little less common.
Even European airports equipped and certified for Cat IIIb ops count on the weather phenomena requiring it's use appearing coincidentally with aircraft arrivals being very uncommon.
One guy carries out the Missed Approach, the next one five minutes later makes it in. That's how it (often) works.....
Of course, if the applicable obscuration has sufficient intensity and duration, a 30min, 40min or 45min fixed reserve might not be much help.
Some international airlines carry an alternate for every flight they operate.
Even European airports equipped and certified for Cat IIIb ops count on the weather phenomena requiring it's use appearing coincidentally with aircraft arrivals being very uncommon.
One guy carries out the Missed Approach, the next one five minutes later makes it in. That's how it (often) works.....
Of course, if the applicable obscuration has sufficient intensity and duration, a 30min, 40min or 45min fixed reserve might not be much help.
Some international airlines carry an alternate for every flight they operate.
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Have raced the fog into PH on more than one occasion after departing from 700nm north with a CAVOK TTF.
Pass-a-frozo, fixed reserve is 30 minutes fuel at holding fuel flow, in most jets this would be equivalent to 1 go-round and an approach before you're on vapours. Most jets would be getting fuel lo level warnings long before you reach fixed res qty.
I would never plan into Perth ( at night ) without enough fuel for an approach, go-round, approach and 30 fixed, inspite of the fact that i have been flying A/C with autoland capability for a few years.
It did'nt take me too long to work out I was'nt going to get any medals for landing with minimum fuel and increasing the grey hair count.
Pass-a-frozo, fixed reserve is 30 minutes fuel at holding fuel flow, in most jets this would be equivalent to 1 go-round and an approach before you're on vapours. Most jets would be getting fuel lo level warnings long before you reach fixed res qty.
I would never plan into Perth ( at night ) without enough fuel for an approach, go-round, approach and 30 fixed, inspite of the fact that i have been flying A/C with autoland capability for a few years.
It did'nt take me too long to work out I was'nt going to get any medals for landing with minimum fuel and increasing the grey hair count.
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Ok, "Fixed Reserve" is FIXED, not to be used, margin to stop the donks from ceasing to turn. So why are you even talking about burning it!!
Contingency is the fat for the enroute unexpected....
Nearly all Internationals carry an alternate regardless of the weather or time of the day, that is why they only have enough fuel to do do the approach and then depart for the alternate, unless there is still contingency and extra gas still on board.
Contingency is the fat for the enroute unexpected....
Nearly all Internationals carry an alternate regardless of the weather or time of the day, that is why they only have enough fuel to do do the approach and then depart for the alternate, unless there is still contingency and extra gas still on board.
Grandpa Aerotart
My airline arrives YPPH with 2 hrs 'remote destination' reserve or Adelaide...usually crew's choice which. Keeps the grey hair/sphincter action to a minimum.
That is 8 to 10 tonnes extra on top of FR. Very relaxing way to fly.
As Agent86 remarked...if it is like that at local midnight it aint improving for a fair while...even two hours might not be enough on occassion.
That is 8 to 10 tonnes extra on top of FR. Very relaxing way to fly.
As Agent86 remarked...if it is like that at local midnight it aint improving for a fair while...even two hours might not be enough on occassion.
Moderator
.. has Perth ever been any different ? .. we all have had a fright or two with the fog there in the wee hours coming over from the east coast ... and, if you don't have autoland, it makes sense to keep the handflying skills up to being able to fly an ILS to the flare if there is no other sensible alternative.
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If your fuel policy does not require an alternate airport, you really have to consider Perth as an isolated airports in Heavy aircraft because the alternates are so far away. Having autoland capabillity should not factor in your fuel decision because the airport is not Low Vis certified, nor the ILS. Having to autoland on a non approved ILS/Runway in actual Low Vis is a very scary scenario and to be avoided at all costs.
Also, what if the airport closes or runways become blocked because of an aircraft accident or breakdown?
Also, what if the airport closes or runways become blocked because of an aircraft accident or breakdown?
Also, what if the airport closes or runways become blocked because of an aircraft accident or breakdown?
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If your flying a wide body heavy jet those options may also not be available, LDA, PCN, stairs, fuel, parking, tugs'n towbars Facillities for pax etc unless you also must declare an emergency.
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Having to autoland on a non approved ILS/Runway in actual Low Vis is a very scary scenario and to be avoided at all costs.
Aircraft with an autoland capability can auto-land successfully on any Cat I ILS facility. It's all the bureaucratic garbage required to get these Cat I ILS's up to Cat III status or better. PER,SYD,MEL & BNE should all be Cat III B ILS approved - but who is going to pay for it and sign off the paperwork. You only have to read the crap about the NAS to realise how reluctant to (aviation) change Australians are.
Nunc est bibendum
Jack I think the point that shockwave was stressing was not whether an autoland on a Cat I runway was dicey but rather the issue of the 'in low vis' case. I'm pretty sure most of us understand that the autoland on a Cat I runway is no big deal but the pucker factor goes up very significantly doing that auto-land on the Cat I runway with vis is down to 100m or so! 
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Keg
Have you never landed in 100m vis on a Cat III A approach during your time in QF on the 744? Have you ever practised low vis approaches down to 100m vis in the sim ? If you haven't, then I apologise, as I presumed QF would train there 744,767 and A330 pilots in this area.
Trust me, there is no big deal provided everything is working.
Now, the "pucker factor" you mention would really go up if you elected to ditch or land at an unfamiliar airport that couldn't handle your aircraft type.
Trust me, there is no big deal provided everything is working.
Now, the "pucker factor" you mention would really go up if you elected to ditch or land at an unfamiliar airport that couldn't handle your aircraft type.