QANTAS Hypocrisy??
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QANTAS Hypocrisy??
Firstly no I have not been cut from QANTAS selection process.
How can QANTAS send out 1000's of letters each year to aspiring pilots saying 'Due to the large number of applicants you are not sufficently competitive' and then to offer to pay the way for a particular segment of the community to complete flying training??
Also considering that one of the questions on the QF selection sheet is tell them what difficulties you have overcome to get where you are now, how could you justify such a scheme??
The other issue here is that these guys that QF are paying for will not be seen by the greater Aboriginal Population. If QF were serious about indigenous employment then these Pilots would be sent into communities where they can encourage other aboriginal people to get education and offer them some hope and get the young fellas out of petrol sniffing etc. Paying for an aboriginal guy to sit in the RH seat of a Metro for a year then to go into the back seat of a 747, will not do a great deal for encouraging other aboriginal people to go somewhere with their lives.
From what I have seen of aboriginal employment schemes they are mearly "trophies" that companies can hold up and do nothing for the greater aboriginal population as the people who get the jobs generally don't want to go and work in the bush where most the aboriginal population lives!! The same problem occurs in other industries and is not limited to just flying.
2006 QANTAS INDIGENOUS CADET PILOT SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM
Is your goal to be an Airline Pilot?
Qantas are seeking suitable Indigenous applicants to be considered for the 2006 Qantas Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program. Qantas has introduced the Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program to encourage aspiring Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to pursue a career in the aviation industry. The scholarship will be run in conjunction with the 2006 Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program. Qantas will fund the flight training and accommodation costs for one successful Aboriginal and/or Torres Straight Islander Level 2 Cadet applicant during the training phase of the Program.
To be eligible, scholarship applicants must meet the Cadet Pilot Minimum Criteria. In addition applicants must be assessed as competitive during each stage of the selection process, as set out in the Cadet Selection Process Briefing Sheet. Applicants wishing to apply for the Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program should indicate this on page one of the Cadet application form. The successful scholarship applicant will be notified on 27 January, 2006.
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program is designed to equip successful graduates with the skills, qualifications and experience required for possible future entry into Qantas as a Second Officer.
Cadet pilots are not employees of Qantas and Qantas gives no guarantee or commitment of future employment at any time after completion of the training program.
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program is comprised of two phases:
· A training phase including a full-time theory and flight training course at a participating Flight Training Organisation.
· A post-training phase involving compulsory flying employment experience under the Cadet Industry Placement Program (CIPP).
To apply for the 2006 Cadet Pilot Training Program you must print out and complete the Cadet application form. Your application should be posted to the address indicated on the form. In order for your application to be accepted it is essential that you include all supporting documentation requested on the form.
All applications must be postmarked by 5pm (local time) 30 September 2005, or be hand delivered or faxed by 5pm (AEST) on 30 September 2005.
Application forms and further information for the 2006 Cadet Pilot Training Program can be found on the Qantas website: www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/pilots.
For further information on the Qantas Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program contact Mick Coombes, Indigenous Programs Adviser on 03 8696 2169 or [email protected].
How can QANTAS send out 1000's of letters each year to aspiring pilots saying 'Due to the large number of applicants you are not sufficently competitive' and then to offer to pay the way for a particular segment of the community to complete flying training??
Also considering that one of the questions on the QF selection sheet is tell them what difficulties you have overcome to get where you are now, how could you justify such a scheme??
The other issue here is that these guys that QF are paying for will not be seen by the greater Aboriginal Population. If QF were serious about indigenous employment then these Pilots would be sent into communities where they can encourage other aboriginal people to get education and offer them some hope and get the young fellas out of petrol sniffing etc. Paying for an aboriginal guy to sit in the RH seat of a Metro for a year then to go into the back seat of a 747, will not do a great deal for encouraging other aboriginal people to go somewhere with their lives.
From what I have seen of aboriginal employment schemes they are mearly "trophies" that companies can hold up and do nothing for the greater aboriginal population as the people who get the jobs generally don't want to go and work in the bush where most the aboriginal population lives!! The same problem occurs in other industries and is not limited to just flying.
2006 QANTAS INDIGENOUS CADET PILOT SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM
Is your goal to be an Airline Pilot?
Qantas are seeking suitable Indigenous applicants to be considered for the 2006 Qantas Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program. Qantas has introduced the Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program to encourage aspiring Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to pursue a career in the aviation industry. The scholarship will be run in conjunction with the 2006 Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program. Qantas will fund the flight training and accommodation costs for one successful Aboriginal and/or Torres Straight Islander Level 2 Cadet applicant during the training phase of the Program.
To be eligible, scholarship applicants must meet the Cadet Pilot Minimum Criteria. In addition applicants must be assessed as competitive during each stage of the selection process, as set out in the Cadet Selection Process Briefing Sheet. Applicants wishing to apply for the Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program should indicate this on page one of the Cadet application form. The successful scholarship applicant will be notified on 27 January, 2006.
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program is designed to equip successful graduates with the skills, qualifications and experience required for possible future entry into Qantas as a Second Officer.
Cadet pilots are not employees of Qantas and Qantas gives no guarantee or commitment of future employment at any time after completion of the training program.
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program is comprised of two phases:
· A training phase including a full-time theory and flight training course at a participating Flight Training Organisation.
· A post-training phase involving compulsory flying employment experience under the Cadet Industry Placement Program (CIPP).
To apply for the 2006 Cadet Pilot Training Program you must print out and complete the Cadet application form. Your application should be posted to the address indicated on the form. In order for your application to be accepted it is essential that you include all supporting documentation requested on the form.
All applications must be postmarked by 5pm (local time) 30 September 2005, or be hand delivered or faxed by 5pm (AEST) on 30 September 2005.
Application forms and further information for the 2006 Cadet Pilot Training Program can be found on the Qantas website: www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/pilots.
For further information on the Qantas Indigenous Cadet Pilot Scholarship Program contact Mick Coombes, Indigenous Programs Adviser on 03 8696 2169 or [email protected].
Last edited by neville_nobody; 15th Aug 2005 at 04:49.
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Capt you got that right. 
40 years too late for me though.
and it wasn't then something you would have wanted made known as the local Protector of Aborigines was likely to send you to the local mission to be "saved" from the white man.
They were also the days when you were required to have an interview with the local QF manager before you were allowed the privilege of purchasing a ticket. If you didn't speak proper or own a suit and tie you would probably not get on.
That was then this is now.
Condensation we might be surprised the number, I don't have the answer but, anecdotally, suspect it is higher than we imagine.
Good on 'em, we and they have moved on a bit since
40 years too late for me though.
and it wasn't then something you would have wanted made known as the local Protector of Aborigines was likely to send you to the local mission to be "saved" from the white man.They were also the days when you were required to have an interview with the local QF manager before you were allowed the privilege of purchasing a ticket. If you didn't speak proper or own a suit and tie you would probably not get on.
That was then this is now.
Condensation we might be surprised the number, I don't have the answer but, anecdotally, suspect it is higher than we imagine.
Good on 'em, we and they have moved on a bit since
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neville I know what you mean!
However if they meet the qualifications without any given "special " privilidges then there would be no difference than anyone else in the job!
i wouldnt worry, there wont be many takers!
However if they meet the qualifications without any given "special " privilidges then there would be no difference than anyone else in the job!
i wouldnt worry, there wont be many takers!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"Qantas will fund the flight training and accommodation costs for one successful Aboriginal and/or Torres Straight Islander Level 2 Cadet applicant during the training phase of the Program."
I think you're right there, n_n
From what I have seen of aboriginal employment schemes they are mearly(sic) "trophies"
Am I the only one who finds it more than a little co-incidental that it was announced during NAIDOC week 
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Not endorsing the cadet scheme, of which I have my own opinion, but its more to do with the fact that QF has to do this sought of thing.
Forget about the type of job this is. QF employs 25000 odd employees and if it doesn't provide these opportunities for minorities it will be in court as soon as a government funded group seek to exploit the oversight.
Simple.
Forget about the type of job this is. QF employs 25000 odd employees and if it doesn't provide these opportunities for minorities it will be in court as soon as a government funded group seek to exploit the oversight.
Simple.
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Aboriginal with a CPL – will never happen and Qantas know this. That’s why they require a Level 2 entry cadet. If they offered a position for a level 1 they might accidentally get a few applications. Imagine the racial uproar if Qantas had to inform one of these aspiring cadet applicants that they didn’t make the grade.
Very shallow on Qantas’s part and an insult to hardworking professional pilots trying for a start in an airline. Also wandering what will constitute being aboriginal with Qantas? 1/1000 or full blood?
Very shallow on Qantas’s part and an insult to hardworking professional pilots trying for a start in an airline. Also wandering what will constitute being aboriginal with Qantas? 1/1000 or full blood?
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Main Entry: in·dig·e·nous
Pronunciation: in-'di-j&-n&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin indigenus, from Latin indigena, n., native, from Old Latin indu, endo in, within + Latin gignere to beget -- more at END-, KIN
1 : having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
2 : INNATE, INBORN
synonym see NATIVE
- in·dig·e·nous·ly adverb
- in·dig·e·nous·ness noun
This is the meaning of indigenous. As far as I can see, you only have to be born here to qualify. If the lefties and others want to politicise the word then that is one thing, but I would dearly like to see someone make an issue of this an apply on the basis of the true definition of the word.
Pronunciation: in-'di-j&-n&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin indigenus, from Latin indigena, n., native, from Old Latin indu, endo in, within + Latin gignere to beget -- more at END-, KIN
1 : having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
2 : INNATE, INBORN
synonym see NATIVE
- in·dig·e·nous·ly adverb
- in·dig·e·nous·ness noun
This is the meaning of indigenous. As far as I can see, you only have to be born here to qualify. If the lefties and others want to politicise the word then that is one thing, but I would dearly like to see someone make an issue of this an apply on the basis of the true definition of the word.
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Transition Layer why wouldn't they, it is after all, about our indigenous brethren.
I have never experienced any overt discrimination being fairly "safe" at 1/16 indigenous blood and the product of a fairly determined effort by previous generations to "distance" our family from my great great grandmothers relationship with the son of the local "Protector of Aborigines". 
His brother married Edith Cowan of the womans acitivist and first parliamentarian and University fame
A prominent Lake (Cowan) in WA was named by him when his father sent him off exploring with Giles to get him away from the scene of the "crime".
The subsequent human history of my great great and great grandmother is tragic but written in the context of the social mores of the time is not the least bit unique.
In hindsight the temptation denied by my parents to finance the considerable costs of my siblings private school, tertiary and vocational education including my pilot license and subsequent ratings to ATPL through the available schemes, was whilst perfectly understandable in the context of the aforesaid social mores, was maybe not such a good one.
It is only now after more than 100 years that we are able to talk about it "safely", with sensitivity to my parents and grandparents feelings about it.
My children are totally fascinated by the fairly recently revealed history (25 years) and are a bit cross that I didn't avail myself of the financial assistance available for their education at some of the more expensive private schools and Universities.
There goes my yacht and penthouse in Monaco.
I used the word overt because there was a much more subtle and powerful discrimination which is too complicated to reveal here and why there needs to be overt and proactive programmes such as detailed here to strike a balance.
I am not an activist in the "active" sense, but it strikes me that if Qantas or any Australain icon wishes to trade on the indigenous
culture for their "marketing" then all other issues aside, they have an obligation to those same people to be inclusive as far as their workforce is concerned.
I am not personally outraged that legislation is required to bring this outcome to pass or insulted that Erin Brokovich (speaking right out of that character BTW) should himself feel insulted that Qantas should by doing so presumably knock him back a seniority number or two in his progress through life.
That was then this is now, let's get on with it eh!
Onya QF whatever the motivation.
I have never experienced any overt discrimination being fairly "safe"
at 1/16 indigenous blood and the product of a fairly determined effort by previous generations to "distance" our family from my great great grandmothers relationship with the son of the local "Protector of Aborigines". His brother married Edith Cowan of the womans acitivist and first parliamentarian and University fame
A prominent Lake (Cowan) in WA was named by him when his father sent him off exploring with Giles to get him away from the scene of the "crime".
The subsequent human history of my great great and great grandmother is tragic but written in the context of the social mores of the time is not the least bit unique.
In hindsight the temptation denied by my parents to finance the considerable costs of my siblings private school, tertiary and vocational education including my pilot license and subsequent ratings to ATPL through the available schemes, was whilst perfectly understandable in the context of the aforesaid social mores, was maybe not such a good one.
It is only now after more than 100 years that we are able to talk about it "safely",
with sensitivity to my parents and grandparents feelings about it.My children are totally fascinated by the fairly recently revealed history (25 years) and are a bit cross that I didn't avail myself of the financial assistance available for their education at some of the more expensive private schools and Universities.
There goes my yacht and penthouse in Monaco.
I used the word overt because there was a much more subtle and powerful discrimination which is too complicated to reveal here and why there needs to be overt and proactive programmes such as detailed here to strike a balance.
I am not an activist in the "active" sense, but it strikes me that if Qantas or any Australain icon wishes to trade on the indigenous
culture for their "marketing" then all other issues aside, they have an obligation to those same people to be inclusive as far as their workforce is concerned.
I am not personally outraged that legislation is required to bring this outcome to pass or insulted that Erin Brokovich (speaking right out of that character BTW) should himself feel insulted
that Qantas should by doing so presumably knock him back a seniority number or two in his progress through life.That was then this is now, let's get on with it eh!
Onya QF whatever the motivation.
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Gaunty, didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers. It just seems to me that if Qantas was serious about this INDIGENOUS CADET PILOT SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM then it would be offered at Ab Initio level. An Indigenous individual who already has the minimum criteria for level 2 entry I assume would not need any more assistance than any other pilot, financial or otherwise.
I agree that
I would like to think that any aspiring indigenous aboriginal applicant would want to get through on their own merits though. From what I have personally seen while working in aboriginal communities is that handouts cause most of the problems. Without going too deep, it all stems from a person’s self worth. An individual needs to feel that they are valued by others in some way. Then they feel good about them selves and are motivated to keep being valued. Handouts do not help a persons self worth. I know because I was on the dole a long time ago, and not proud of it.
If Qantas want to give something back then why not help the bored, lost indigenous youths out in regional Australia. Sorry if I seemed narrow minded. I just feel that equality should be a double edged sword.
I agree that
if Qantas or any Australain icon wishes to trade on the indigenous
culture for their "marketing" then all other issues aside, they have an obligation to those same people to be inclusive as far as their workforce is concerned.
culture for their "marketing" then all other issues aside, they have an obligation to those same people to be inclusive as far as their workforce is concerned.
If Qantas want to give something back then why not help the bored, lost indigenous youths out in regional Australia. Sorry if I seemed narrow minded. I just feel that equality should be a double edged sword.
Last edited by Erin Brockovich; 15th Aug 2005 at 08:24.
Bottums Up
Erin B said,
WRONG I've worked with two that spring to mind. Both have flown RPT jets with white rats on the tail, one holds a jet command, t'other has moved to greener pastures with Cathay.
As for t'others who winge about aboriginal people getting hand outs etc. if they're on such a good wicket, why don't you become naturalised and take advantage of their general conditions of life ....
Aboriginal with a CPL – will never happen
As for t'others who winge about aboriginal people getting hand outs etc. if they're on such a good wicket, why don't you become naturalised and take advantage of their general conditions of life ....
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Capt, would both of your work colleagues been happy to accept a scholarship because of who their great grand parents were? I think we all have a different idea on what the definition of a true aboriginal is. That seems to be the problem here. I also never said anything about aboriginal people being on a good wicket.
Bottums Up
Erin, I didn't say you did say they were on a good wicket.
As for accepting a scholarship. I don't know a pilot alive who wouldn't have accepted some sort of financial assistance from a company or government, unless perhaps it came with unreasonable conditions of servitude, and I don't think this scheme incorporates servitude.
As for accepting a scholarship. I don't know a pilot alive who wouldn't have accepted some sort of financial assistance from a company or government, unless perhaps it came with unreasonable conditions of servitude, and I don't think this scheme incorporates servitude.
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There is a young aspiring CPL wannabee named CLEARPROP from Oombie trying to follow daddies footsteps, cause he made it. TL has been an inspiration to us all, especially his son Clear Prop