Organisations Committees and their members
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Organisations Committees and their members
From an aviation website;
Member A apparently a forum moderator
Member B
Their leader spent a page and a half editorial in their magazine on a spray against any who might hold a different view than they, as being anti GA.
Does this form of conduct make you confident with the relevance of their leadership?
And would it have you wanting to sign up if the above members are unable to sway their Committee into being more communicative?
Member A apparently a forum moderator
This section of the Forum was designed to enable meaningful debate or liaison between members and the Committee.
My recent understanding is that the Committee - for a number of reasons - has decided not to contribute and may actually be considering a definite non-contribution undertaking.
I would value comment from members of this Forum on what they believe should be the Committee position re interchange of ideas, even complaints, on the Forum. Speak up before the Committee takes any monastic oath!
My recent understanding is that the Committee - for a number of reasons - has decided not to contribute and may actually be considering a definite non-contribution undertaking.
I would value comment from members of this Forum on what they believe should be the Committee position re interchange of ideas, even complaints, on the Forum. Speak up before the Committee takes any monastic oath!
Certainly the Committee should be answering questions posed by members on this forum. My reasoning is as follows.
1. The Committee is accountable to the members and part of this accountability should be to answer all questions posed by members within a reasonable time frame. Saying nothing in response to a legitimate question invites the perception that information is being withheld from members because the Committee is contemplating action that the members would not approve of.
2. The forum is the quickest and easiest and most economical way of achieving the above.
3. Answering questions in a forum informs all members of the issues and can actually strengthen members perceptions of the Committee by demonstrating the strength of the response.
4. It is simple business courtesy to reply in the same format at the query was received: if they rang, ring them back; if they faxed, fax them back; if they posted on a forum, post back.
1. The Committee is accountable to the members and part of this accountability should be to answer all questions posed by members within a reasonable time frame. Saying nothing in response to a legitimate question invites the perception that information is being withheld from members because the Committee is contemplating action that the members would not approve of.
2. The forum is the quickest and easiest and most economical way of achieving the above.
3. Answering questions in a forum informs all members of the issues and can actually strengthen members perceptions of the Committee by demonstrating the strength of the response.
4. It is simple business courtesy to reply in the same format at the query was received: if they rang, ring them back; if they faxed, fax them back; if they posted on a forum, post back.
Does this form of conduct make you confident with the relevance of their leadership?
And would it have you wanting to sign up if the above members are unable to sway their Committee into being more communicative?
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Comittee??
The very first words in the New Zealand haka are:
"COMMITTEE COMMITTEE"
and are designed to instill fear into the heart of the listner.
I am a firm believer in the committee of one.
ECT.
"COMMITTEE COMMITTEE"
and are designed to instill fear into the heart of the listner.
I am a firm believer in the committee of one.
ECT.
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And would it have you wanting to sign up if the above members are unable to sway their Committee into being more communicative?
Lets take yesterday (a quiet day) 24 phone calls, all taken or returned, and 102 e-mails, all answered. I really do appreciate 'club leaders' who contact me and then pass on to members (thanks to Bathurst and Schofields), this really makes my job easier.
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Obiwan,
A quiet day, 24 phone calls, 102 emails. Very popular.
What club is this? I want to join. This could be the people to fix all our woes with a full time administrator like this. (Probably RAA picking up more members).
Or is it just another Government ploy to lure us in, by a part time public servant, with too much time on his (or her), hands at the taxpayers expense.
CC.
A quiet day, 24 phone calls, 102 emails. Very popular.
What club is this? I want to join. This could be the people to fix all our woes with a full time administrator like this. (Probably RAA picking up more members).
Or is it just another Government ploy to lure us in, by a part time public servant, with too much time on his (or her), hands at the taxpayers expense.
CC.
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Parrhresiastes,
It could be any club/organisation. The common denominators are ignorance, stupidity and arrogance (on all sides).
Pray why should the Committee be answering on this forum? If a forum such as this were the universal panacea we could do away with all committees. A Committee exists to interact with each other...allowing comments midstream from the peanut gallery is a very unwelcome distraction. A forum runs the risk of becoming the raison d'etre for the Committee...its responsibilities become submerged under a tide of populism and emotional self justification! BTDT
It could be any club/organisation. The common denominators are ignorance, stupidity and arrogance (on all sides).
Pray why should the Committee be answering on this forum? If a forum such as this were the universal panacea we could do away with all committees. A Committee exists to interact with each other...allowing comments midstream from the peanut gallery is a very unwelcome distraction. A forum runs the risk of becoming the raison d'etre for the Committee...its responsibilities become submerged under a tide of populism and emotional self justification! BTDT
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BUNYA
It is hard to disagree with the general thrust of your argument, but I have a difficulty with;
In this particular instance it seems that comments from the peanut gallery are welcome on their forum but responses may or may not be made depending on whether there is or is not a consensus on the committee.
Why then have a forum at all?
The internet and the democratisation of information ownership that it has brought about is barely, what, 10 years old and already it is an integral and totally indispensible part of our lives.
If I can check 24/7 on the internet exactly where the new pair of Ugg boots I bought on the internet last Thurs from a Moorabbin firm by direct internet bank transfer are, in the Australian Air Express System, why is it so difficult for any organisation to keep their members up to date in the same way.
in a day??
at 5 mins per thats 10.5 hours, even a quarter of that time in an unpaid volunteers working day is too big a call.
I'm not disputing that level of traffic, I've been there, but the way it is handled.
I'll bet training your members and committee to go to the forum and insisting that they do so, rather rather than ring or email for FAQs would cut the above down heaps.
But there are those common denominators I guess.
It is hard to disagree with the general thrust of your argument, but I have a difficulty with;
allowing comments midstream from the peanut gallery is a very unwelcome distraction
Why then have a forum at all?
The internet and the democratisation of information ownership that it has brought about is barely, what, 10 years old and already it is an integral and totally indispensible part of our lives.
If I can check 24/7 on the internet exactly where the new pair of Ugg boots I bought on the internet last Thurs from a Moorabbin firm by direct internet bank transfer are, in the Australian Air Express System, why is it so difficult for any organisation to keep their members up to date in the same way.
24 phone calls, 102 emails
at 5 mins per thats 10.5 hours, even a quarter of that time in an unpaid volunteers working day is too big a call.I'm not disputing that level of traffic, I've been there, but the way it is handled.
I'll bet training your members and committee to go to the forum and insisting that they do so, rather rather than ring or email for FAQs would cut the above down heaps.
But there are those common denominators I guess.
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Interesting, the Naval equivalent of Colonel is Captain. From that airlines like QANTAS draw thier senior 'operational' rank.
Funny thing when you play with words isn't it 'colonel'.
Sniff sniff, I smell a rat, rather a retired driver of a plane with a white one on its tail
Barry
Funny thing when you play with words isn't it 'colonel'.
Sniff sniff, I smell a rat, rather a retired driver of a plane with a white one on its tail
Barry
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This is more fun than Desperate Housewives. 
It gets worse, much worse and this from an organisation purporting to represent GA, that you pay money to belong to, which also entitles you to participate in discussions on their members only forum.
It seems that discussion is fine as long as it comply's with the thinking of the Chairmans Big Book on How to Save GA.
This from a member who is notoriously gulity of the same behaviour against others with whom he disagrees, wrapping himself in the cloth of sophistry.
It gets better:
Sign up sign up don't miss the fun and games, it just appears you should not expect to get anything much for your ideas, strong opinions or money apart from being told you too are, shock horror, anti GA.
There are masochists and there are fools, in this case its a bit hard to work out which is whom.
I wonder how long it will take to for them to close down the forum completely, there was some discussion about trying to trace which member was looking at which thread and "following" them from there, to check on whether their subsequent behaviour was "fit and proper".
To top it off they have a "PPRuNe stoops to a new low" thread going, on which to post imagined slights. is this paranoid behaviour or what.
A Psych could retire on the proceeds from this lot.
Deja-vu was not just a song title you know.
It gets worse, much worse and this from an organisation purporting to represent GA, that you pay money to belong to, which also entitles you to participate in discussions on their members only forum.
It seems that discussion is fine as long as it comply's with the thinking of the Chairmans Big Book on How to Save GA.
This from a member who is notoriously gulity of the same behaviour against others with whom he disagrees, wrapping himself in the cloth of sophistry.
Board
I have read XXXXX recent posts on my thread "TIME FOR A RETHINK".
(a discussion of how to arrest a rapidly declining membership and lack of relevance)
Those posts express a strong opinion. However, I can find no defamation. =TRUE
The posts are on the secure members only area of this site.
Following his post yesterday, again expressing his opinion,
THIS MORNING I FIND THAT HE IS BANNED FOR A MONTH.
Censorship of this forum, because a member is outspoken and in opposition to others views is NOT, repeat NOT, legitimate. This Forum is designed for an interchange of ideas and disagreement.
For the Board, or any member of the Board, to censor/ban a member without warning and just cause is a serious breach.
I like XXX and if he steps out of line I will personally stick it to him. But I am also a believer in fair play. He was bullied on the day he resigned, once is enough.
Do not lower this Forum to the behavioural standard of a certain other.
DO NOT RING ME - JUST DO NOT REPEAT THIS.
I have read XXXXX recent posts on my thread "TIME FOR A RETHINK".
(a discussion of how to arrest a rapidly declining membership and lack of relevance)
Those posts express a strong opinion. However, I can find no defamation. =TRUE
The posts are on the secure members only area of this site.
Following his post yesterday, again expressing his opinion,
THIS MORNING I FIND THAT HE IS BANNED FOR A MONTH.
Censorship of this forum, because a member is outspoken and in opposition to others views is NOT, repeat NOT, legitimate. This Forum is designed for an interchange of ideas and disagreement.
For the Board, or any member of the Board, to censor/ban a member without warning and just cause is a serious breach.
I like XXX and if he steps out of line I will personally stick it to him. But I am also a believer in fair play. He was bullied on the day he resigned, once is enough.
Do not lower this Forum to the behavioural standard of a certain other.
DO NOT RING ME - JUST DO NOT REPEAT THIS.
Board Executive
I have just received from XXX the reason for his ban.
It is so significant that I intend to quote direct from it.
"Your access to the XXXX Forum has been suspended on a decision by the Executive.
It is the Executive's belief that under the new XXXX Board Members Deed they are required to promote XXXX at all times.
They further believe that in allowing, what is in their opinion, denigration of the association as a whole violates that deed.
Your current conduct has meant that the Executive has had little choice but to suspend your access."
Gentlemen of the Executive
You had better get ready to suspend me also as I say that your comment is patent b...s..t.
What you are saying to try and justify your actions is that any criticism of XXXX = denigration = automatic excuse for a ban.
Sorry Messrs Goebbels, free speech doesn't work that way. This Forum should encourage vigorous debate on matters XXXX with criticism implicit as appropriate.
Such criticism can also be opinion, it need not always be fact.
As a member of Free Speech XXXXXXX I absolutely distance myself as my States joint XXXX Rep from the decision taken in this case by the Executive of XXXX.
I have just received from XXX the reason for his ban.
It is so significant that I intend to quote direct from it.
"Your access to the XXXX Forum has been suspended on a decision by the Executive.
It is the Executive's belief that under the new XXXX Board Members Deed they are required to promote XXXX at all times.
They further believe that in allowing, what is in their opinion, denigration of the association as a whole violates that deed.
Your current conduct has meant that the Executive has had little choice but to suspend your access."
Gentlemen of the Executive
You had better get ready to suspend me also as I say that your comment is patent b...s..t.
What you are saying to try and justify your actions is that any criticism of XXXX = denigration = automatic excuse for a ban.
Sorry Messrs Goebbels, free speech doesn't work that way. This Forum should encourage vigorous debate on matters XXXX with criticism implicit as appropriate.
Such criticism can also be opinion, it need not always be fact.
As a member of Free Speech XXXXXXX I absolutely distance myself as my States joint XXXX Rep from the decision taken in this case by the Executive of XXXX.
There are masochists and there are fools, in this case its a bit hard to work out which is whom.
I wonder how long it will take to for them to close down the forum completely, there was some discussion about trying to trace which member was looking at which thread and "following" them from there, to check on whether their subsequent behaviour was "fit and proper".
To top it off they have a "PPRuNe stoops to a new low" thread going, on which to post imagined slights.
is this paranoid behaviour or what.A Psych could retire on the proceeds from this lot.
Deja-vu was not just a song title you know.
Last edited by Parrhresiastes; 5th Aug 2005 at 08:14.
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This is what passes for rational debate in the organisations forum.
This from their "open" not "members only" forum.
From the IT guru.
Fascinating stuff, Big Brother would tell em that just because they are paranoid doesn’t mean they are out to get em.
My advice would be not to go there, unless you be branded as anti-GA
Anyone with even a hint of education in rational and philosophical debate would be more than passing familiar with the Parrhesiastes and the Sophists, they would not therefore be surprised if the terms turn up in the same conversation. Google’s the go if you need to know.
It seems XXX has now been reinstated after intervention by the sophist, they can be useful, and now, we wait, breathlessly, for the Chairman to give us a quotation from his Big Book of How to Save GA.
Personally I can’t wait to hear it.
XXX should be so lucky.
I know what I’d tell em.
xinhua2
I hear tell they have some facility in unauthorised interception.
I am told one of the Board members past, was threatened in the plain hearing of others with the "checking of his personal telephone records" in relation to an alleged "leaking" of board material. Something I am led to believe was possible given the employment and position of the individual albeit seriously illegal.
One can only wonder what could possibly be that important that one would risk a goal term for it.
Mind you it is consistent with most of the other bizzare behaviour that has been reported here and there.
XXX might appear to be a royal pain in the arse, but he does seem to understand the difference between sh!t and shinola.
Sadly this appears to be the nature of the beast.
This from their "open" not "members only" forum.
Well, what a surprise.
A bod using the title "parrhresiastes" (parasite?) is copying across the current debate from the members only area to pprune.
I will not give any clues to that persons identity except to note that he uses - about (de-identified) me - the terms "This from a member who is notoriously gulity of the same behaviour against others with whom he disagrees, wrapping himself in the cloth of sophistry."
The final word is his giveaway - anyone who has watched the debates on pprune knows which gutless sniper this is.
Pprune - the coating on the toilet paper!!!
A bod using the title "parrhresiastes" (parasite?) is copying across the current debate from the members only area to pprune.
I will not give any clues to that persons identity except to note that he uses - about (de-identified) me - the terms "This from a member who is notoriously gulity of the same behaviour against others with whom he disagrees, wrapping himself in the cloth of sophistry."
The final word is his giveaway - anyone who has watched the debates on pprune knows which gutless sniper this is.
Pprune - the coating on the toilet paper!!!
I had XXXX Forum loaded in the background for most of the afternoon at work watching the comings and goings of who was reading what.
It was pretty obvious who our annonymous sniper could be...
It was pretty obvious who our annonymous sniper could be...
My advice would be not to go there, unless you be branded as anti-GA
Anyone with even a hint of education in rational and philosophical debate would be more than passing familiar with the Parrhesiastes and the Sophists, they would not therefore be surprised if the terms turn up in the same conversation. Google’s the go if you need to know.
It seems XXX has now been reinstated after intervention by the sophist, they can be useful, and now, we wait, breathlessly, for the Chairman to give us a quotation from his Big Book of How to Save GA.
Personally I can’t wait to hear it.
XXX should be so lucky.
I know what I’d tell em.
xinhua2
I hear tell they have some facility in unauthorised interception.
I am told one of the Board members past, was threatened in the plain hearing of others with the "checking of his personal telephone records" in relation to an alleged "leaking" of board material. Something I am led to believe was possible given the employment and position of the individual albeit seriously illegal.
One can only wonder what could possibly be that important that one would risk a goal term for it.
Mind you it is consistent with most of the other bizzare behaviour that has been reported here and there.
XXX might appear to be a royal pain in the arse, but he does seem to understand the difference between sh!t and shinola.
Sadly this appears to be the nature of the beast.
Last edited by Parrhresiastes; 6th Aug 2005 at 02:15.
Now what's the betting that a certain organisation doesn't get to become an ASIC issuing authority?
After its continual attacks on CASA and DOTARS, I would not be at all surprised if the public service concluded its behaviour was not up to the standards required to issue anything at all.
After its continual attacks on CASA and DOTARS, I would not be at all surprised if the public service concluded its behaviour was not up to the standards required to issue anything at all.
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In the light of all the above I rest my case!
These discussions show again why those in positions of responsibility should shun any forums!
Let them be answerable via personal approach or via the ballot box.
These discussions show again why those in positions of responsibility should shun any forums!
Let them be answerable via personal approach or via the ballot box.
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Back to the future??
Hmmmm
ROLFMAO It didn't take em long at all and I'm a member as well.
rings a bit hollow no?
Sunfish nobody is being more than polite to them anyway. And they, all three or four of them perhaps, can now enjoy talking quietly amongst themselves, whilst the rest of us get on with it.
"As the sun pulls away from the shore and our ship sinks slowly in the west" Spike Jones circa1960
ROLFMAO It didn't take em long at all and I'm a member as well.
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Gentlemen of the Executive
You had better get ready to suspend me also as I say that your comment is patent b...s..t.
What you are saying to try and justify your actions is that any criticism of XXXX = denigration = automatic excuse for a ban.
Sorry Messrs Goebbels, free speech doesn't work that way. This Forum should encourage vigorous debate on matters XXXX with criticism implicit as appropriate.
Such criticism can also be opinion, it need not always be fact.
As a member of Free Speech XXXXXXX I absolutely distance myself as my States joint XXXX Rep from the decision taken in this case by the Executive of XXXX.
You had better get ready to suspend me also as I say that your comment is patent b...s..t.
What you are saying to try and justify your actions is that any criticism of XXXX = denigration = automatic excuse for a ban.
Sorry Messrs Goebbels, free speech doesn't work that way. This Forum should encourage vigorous debate on matters XXXX with criticism implicit as appropriate.
Such criticism can also be opinion, it need not always be fact.
As a member of Free Speech XXXXXXX I absolutely distance myself as my States joint XXXX Rep from the decision taken in this case by the Executive of XXXX.
Sunfish nobody is being more than polite to them anyway. And they, all three or four of them perhaps, can now enjoy talking quietly amongst themselves, whilst the rest of us get on with it.
"As the sun pulls away from the shore and our ship sinks slowly in the west" Spike Jones circa1960
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Ah, very long winded anti-AOPA posts put up at a time that would be beddie byes in the eastern states.
Disgruntled and discredited ex-director on a one man (but multiple personality) twisted fact crusade against the organisation that seems to be going OK post his departure.
Ain't a membership vote a bummer when it fails to recognise your obviously enormous talent
Now, waiting waiting to see if the owners of this site still trust him to be a moderator.
Disgruntled and discredited ex-director on a one man (but multiple personality) twisted fact crusade against the organisation that seems to be going OK post his departure.
Ain't a membership vote a bummer when it fails to recognise your obviously enormous talent
Now, waiting waiting to see if the owners of this site still trust him to be a moderator.
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From the IT guru.
IT Guru here (your words - not mine. I would never be so brazen...) - how are ya?
As the admin of the AOPA forum, it pains me to think that one of our own, an AOPA member would be trying to discredit the organisation by selectively cross posting certain messages in an attempt to create an image of conflict or disharmony. I mean seriously - who would pay over $100 a year to be a member of an organisation just to try and discredit it?
This morning I'd had enough so I analysed the AOPA logs to see who was reading what and when. There weren't a lot of people reading both threads at the same time, so I thought I'd try something. I set the AOPA server up to ban access to one user on a hunch, and to then see what happened on Pprune. And guess what - you took the bait
The AOPA members were quite happy to leave Pprune and stick to their own forum, but you just couldn't quit - could you?
Tell me - what ever were you doing at 1am surfing the web? Oh, that's right... silly me. It's only 11pm on that side of the country.
Best Regards,
The IT Guru
ps - print this one off and stick it on the fridge kids, it probably won't be around for long...
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Well if woomera would ban Gaunt, it would all go away wouldn't it 
But hey Gaunty, if you are going to be one, at least spell it right...
Parrhesiastes
But hey Gaunty, if you are going to be one, at least spell it right...
Parrhesiastes
It is because of this self-love that everybody is himself his own foremost and greatest flatterer, and hence finds no difficulty in admitting the outsider to witness with him and to confirm his own conceits and desires. For the man who is spoken of with opprobrium as a lover of flatterers is in high degree a lover of self, and, because of his kindly feeling toward himself, he desires and conceives himself to be endowed with all manner of good qualities; but although the desire for these is not unnatural, yet the conceit that one possesses them is dangerous and must be carefully avoided. Now If Truth is a thing divine, and, as Plato puts it, the origin "of all good for gods and all good for men" [Laws,730c], then the flatterer is in all likelihood an enemy to the gods and particularly to the Pythian god. For the flatterer always takes a position over against the maxim "Know Thyself," by creating in every man deception towards himself and ignorance both of himself and of the good and evil that concerns himself; the good he renders defective and incomplete, and the evil wholly impossible to amend.
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tobzalp
We would be quite happy to keep posts about AOPA to the AOPA forum - if Parrhresiastes or whatever alias he is using this week would quit it, but he won't.
John Quincy Adams once said "Is there anything as pathetic as an ex-President?". To that we should add ex-Director.
Haven't seen you on the AOPA forum for a while...
We would be quite happy to keep posts about AOPA to the AOPA forum - if Parrhresiastes or whatever alias he is using this week would quit it, but he won't.
John Quincy Adams once said "Is there anything as pathetic as an ex-President?". To that we should add ex-Director.
Haven't seen you on the AOPA forum for a while...
