Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

BORING: "Airbus are mad building something so big!"

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

BORING: "Airbus are mad building something so big!"

Old 15th Jun 2005, 21:27
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Not NZ anymore sadly!
Age: 62
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question BOEING: "Airbus are mad building something so big!"

OH REALLY!!

Boeing will hold a board meeting this month to consider the launch of a stretched version of its 747 jumbo jet, a plan which the head of Boeing Italy said on Tuesday looked set to go forward.

The plan comes as rival Airbus prepares to deliver its mammoth 555 seat A380.

"Boeing will launch a new version of the 747 to counter the A380. Boeing has decided on the relaunch, with a larger version, of this glorious airplane which is 30 years old," Rinaldo Petrignani, head of Boeing Italy and vice president of Boeing International, told Italian reporters at the Paris Air Show.

Another senior executive at Boeing confirmed that a board meeting this month would consider the idea of launching the new model, called the 747 Advanced, but added it was premature to speak of definite plans.

"The airplane looks good. We have a fair amount of interest," said Mike Bair, Boeing vice president and head of its 787 program.

Last edited by 1279shp; 16th Jun 2005 at 20:58.
1279shp is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2005, 23:55
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
747 stretched but with, basicly, 1969 aerodynamics with a few mods ... mmm, my money is on the A380?
Boney is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2005, 08:13
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1969 aerodynamics
aerodynamic testing results dont change over time!
Ultralights is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2005, 08:34
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exactly Ultralights! They don't get worse.....or better
Low-Pass is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2005, 08:36
  #5 (permalink)  
Sprucegoose
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
aerodynamic testing results dont change over time!
Yep!! Mach .86 I believe, the big fat airbus won't even come close.....

Cheers, HH.

Howard Hughes is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2005, 11:09
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A '69 wing originally built for an aircraft 20% lighter than todays 400 (don't fly 'em so only guessing).

Add more wing span (at a later date), then throw on some winglets, (at a later date).

Maybe there has not been huge advancements in aerodynamics since 69, but I would be very surprised if the A380 wing, designed from scatch, could not beat the 400 (plus any future wing span increases) for aerodynamic efficency.
Boney is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2005, 11:27
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
there are not many similarities between a B474-400 wing and a B747-200 wing! for a starters, they are made from different materials and different alloys, saving a vast amount of weight, and there are subtle differences to the aerofoil profile, not just spanwise, not to mention there are a lot more composite components in a -400 compared to a -200


now an SP wing...........




it would be interesting to see the comparison between cruising Mach numbers of a B744 and the A380, have they sacrificed a higher speed cruising wing for greater lift at approach speeds considering the rather larger amount of weight it has to carry?
Ultralights is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2005, 12:26
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 56
Posts: 2,600
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Boney
Add more wing span (at a later date), then throw on some winglets, (at a later date).Maybe there has not been huge advancements in aerodynamics since 69, but I would be very surprised if the A380 wing, designed from scatch, could not beat the 400 (plus any future wing span increases) for aerodynamic efficency.
For those not up with the history and development of the B744 program, the wing on it was a completely new design from the ground up. It incorporated a new aerofoil cross-section, increased span with winglets, a large proportion of composite construction and a completely new wing to fuselage fairing. One could argue this is exactly what Airbus did when they developed the A330/340 series from the A300.
404 Titan is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2005, 02:01
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My money is actually on the redefined Boeing. They'll be able to stretch it just enough for consumer demands. The A-380 could turn out to be a white elephant...a very large one at that.
Chris Higgins is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2005, 03:40
  #10 (permalink)  
swh

Eidolon
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 2,170
Received 24 Likes on 13 Posts
In my view the 747-400 is getting close to as big as it can go, problem being landing gear.

777-300ER is running into problems with the high PCN/ACN required, very few runways in Australia can actually handle such weights, look at airports that have high volumes of 777 traffic you will see you they are actually moving the flexible pavement.

Over time you can see spots where the 777 brakes, the pavement under the aircraft actually moves with the aircraft causing large bumps in taxiways.

A 747 advanced will have a high PCN/ACN with the higher weight still distributed over 18 wheels, without a gear redesign to have the weight over more wheels this aircraft could be limited out of more airports than the 777-300ER or A380.

swh is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2005, 03:47
  #11 (permalink)  
Whispering "T" Jet
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne.
Age: 68
Posts: 653
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Wait until you get three or four of these monsters arriving at thirty minute intervals. The terminal congestion will be unbearable.

You will stretch customs, immigration and security resources to the limit.

I agree with Chris Higgins , a big white elephant !
3 Holer is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2005, 04:33
  #12 (permalink)  
OhForSure
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
My money is also on the 747ADV. Other than Emirates (who don't operate 747s), no other carrier has ordered significant numbers of them... in fact after the EK order I think QF might be the next biggerst customer with 12 on order.

There are numerous other carriers out there that have looked passed the A380, yet will need 744 replacements. BA, UA, NW, BR, CI, CX, AF, KE, OZ, NH & JA are just a few of those.... add to that other carriers that HAVE ordered A380s that may still need 744 replacements such as QF, LH, VS & SQ.

Regardless, there is money to be made and aircraft to be sold, and you can bet your bottom dollar that several of those mentioned above will NOT be ordering the A380.

Can't wait to see what happens.
 
Old 17th Jun 2005, 13:44
  #13 (permalink)  

Rebel PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
Age: 50
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ohforsure

The North American carriers have been dumping their 744s as soon as they can get away with it - AC has just got short of the last of theirs. NW is gone 777 and UA has no money. If they had any I suspect 772LR/773ER would be the priority purchases. Also the busy trade in 744 F conversions

BA and the East Asian carriers sound like good bets as they have retained their 744 fleets.

SAA are talking about 380 which may or may not mean the end of their 747 fleet.

Ditto the likes of AI if they could get their government to draw up their fleet plan at better than a snail's pace while the new entrants are ordering 100 A320s at a time and Kingfisher looking for five 380s!
MarkD is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.