Security Nonsense
Seems like a big outbreak of commonsense to me.
1. The pilots were there at the request of the airline.
2. They are airline staff.
3. They were going to be flying the aircraft. (don't need a weapon)
So where was the security risk?
Hmmmm
I was with the rest of my crew yesterday, arrive at security, the usual thing take your shoes off, remove the belt blah blah blah and then the prettiest flight attendant is requested to come aside and take part in the Trace detection.
This took ten minutes as they wanted to check each piece of luggage, even open them up which I am not sure is completely legit? and then test samples from just about every section of her body. I am little jealous here as I tried that the night before abnd my request was denied!!!
The point being, while these security morons wasted their time checking her, probably around 30 passengers who surely would have been more of a risk wander through.
I have heard rumours that there will soon be two lines at security. One for airline crews, were all testing is mandatory. The second lineis for everybody else, as long as you don't wear an ASIC card or hold a pilots license then you may proceed through unhindered.
It is a joke!
Clarrett, my other half pronounced that guy dead. Apparantly once they do that they cannot remove them, children they can but not adults// Don't understand.
1. The pilots were there at the request of the airline.
2. They are airline staff.
3. They were going to be flying the aircraft. (don't need a weapon)
So where was the security risk?
Hmmmm
I was with the rest of my crew yesterday, arrive at security, the usual thing take your shoes off, remove the belt blah blah blah and then the prettiest flight attendant is requested to come aside and take part in the Trace detection.
This took ten minutes as they wanted to check each piece of luggage, even open them up which I am not sure is completely legit? and then test samples from just about every section of her body. I am little jealous here as I tried that the night before abnd my request was denied!!!
The point being, while these security morons wasted their time checking her, probably around 30 passengers who surely would have been more of a risk wander through.
I have heard rumours that there will soon be two lines at security. One for airline crews, were all testing is mandatory. The second lineis for everybody else, as long as you don't wear an ASIC card or hold a pilots license then you may proceed through unhindered.
It is a joke!
Clarrett, my other half pronounced that guy dead. Apparantly once they do that they cannot remove them, children they can but not adults// Don't understand.
Last edited by RENURPP; 20th Mar 2005 at 23:04.
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No problem getting your nail clippers confiscated and then being delivered to the a/c by the agent prior to departure.I much prefer to do my nails with the flight deck crash axe anyway!
Bottums Up
DD
RENURPP's stolen my thunder.
I completely understand the need for the undertaker to remove the body, though would have thought the AMBOs could have. Thankfully common sense has prevailed and said undertakers are escorted to the aircraft and allowed to do their business.
What I object to is the stupidity of me as an operating crew member having to be screened. As has been said before, pilot's don't need to smuggle weapons on board. They along with the rest of the crew are the only employees screened yet the only employees with a life or death vested interest in the safe arrival of the flight.
RENURPP's stolen my thunder.
I completely understand the need for the undertaker to remove the body, though would have thought the AMBOs could have. Thankfully common sense has prevailed and said undertakers are escorted to the aircraft and allowed to do their business.
What I object to is the stupidity of me as an operating crew member having to be screened. As has been said before, pilot's don't need to smuggle weapons on board. They along with the rest of the crew are the only employees screened yet the only employees with a life or death vested interest in the safe arrival of the flight.
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RENURPP's comment
"the prettiest flight attendant is requested to come aside and take part in the Trace detection."
struck a particularly familiar tone with me.
Last Tuesday (15 Mar) I was waiting to board my flight at MCY when it became very apparent to me that the "rent a thug" doing the Trace thingy was selecting 7 or 8 females for his activities to only 1 male. He was also "patting them down" as well using the back of his hand. This would not have been obvious to the individual passengers but it most certainly was to me sitting in the lounge. He leaves himself open to charges of least inappropriate behaviour, maybe even harassment.
I will be taking this up with the airport in question.
tipsy
"the prettiest flight attendant is requested to come aside and take part in the Trace detection."
struck a particularly familiar tone with me.
Last Tuesday (15 Mar) I was waiting to board my flight at MCY when it became very apparent to me that the "rent a thug" doing the Trace thingy was selecting 7 or 8 females for his activities to only 1 male. He was also "patting them down" as well using the back of his hand. This would not have been obvious to the individual passengers but it most certainly was to me sitting in the lounge. He leaves himself open to charges of least inappropriate behaviour, maybe even harassment.
I will be taking this up with the airport in question.
tipsy
Bottums Up
Tipsy,
Some months ago a flight attandant had her smalls fondled as well as the whole of her toilet bag. This was done in a closed room, where she felt quite uncomfortable.
An approach to the Security team supervisor, a lady, a week later saw bloggs the bozo stood down for quite some time.
Some months ago a flight attandant had her smalls fondled as well as the whole of her toilet bag. This was done in a closed room, where she felt quite uncomfortable.
An approach to the Security team supervisor, a lady, a week later saw bloggs the bozo stood down for quite some time.
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Clarry.
I will be taking this up with the airport management, not the contractor in question. I also formally reported this to the DoTARS people at the Avalon airshow, they are waiting my report on the actions taken by the MCY airport before they "get involved".
tipsy
prrrrrrrrrr
I will be taking this up with the airport management, not the contractor in question. I also formally reported this to the DoTARS people at the Avalon airshow, they are waiting my report on the actions taken by the MCY airport before they "get involved".
tipsy
prrrrrrrrrr
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By the year 2010 -
(or earlier if the bearded cave dweller and his camel molesting mouse brained devotees continue to elude their pursuers )
- I can forsee all aircrew having to provide not just a breath and saliva sample for drug/alcohol testing , but also having to bend over for a @nal probe/rectal survey to check for concealed weapons .
(so forget about keeping your nail clippers or leatherman in that cavern)
security imbeciles beware , i await that day with schemeing wicked glee for i intend to return "with compound interest" all your unnessarily bad mannered demeaning acts perpetrated on aircrew and the travelling public.
you see not 500m away from here sits a north indian curry shop that makes a tasty vindaloo , thats so damn ring-burning hot its guaranteed to tarnish shiny metal surfaces , or alternatively , strip and flush all intestinal contents by 7am the next morning .
I can just see the headlines now : security employee asphixiated and his scannertron probe X500 damaged by explosive shower of Vindaloo Surprise , however , crew member feeling fine and aircraft departed 2kg lighter.....
(or earlier if the bearded cave dweller and his camel molesting mouse brained devotees continue to elude their pursuers )
- I can forsee all aircrew having to provide not just a breath and saliva sample for drug/alcohol testing , but also having to bend over for a @nal probe/rectal survey to check for concealed weapons .
(so forget about keeping your nail clippers or leatherman in that cavern)
security imbeciles beware , i await that day with schemeing wicked glee for i intend to return "with compound interest" all your unnessarily bad mannered demeaning acts perpetrated on aircrew and the travelling public.
you see not 500m away from here sits a north indian curry shop that makes a tasty vindaloo , thats so damn ring-burning hot its guaranteed to tarnish shiny metal surfaces , or alternatively , strip and flush all intestinal contents by 7am the next morning .
I can just see the headlines now : security employee asphixiated and his scannertron probe X500 damaged by explosive shower of Vindaloo Surprise , however , crew member feeling fine and aircraft departed 2kg lighter.....
X-dash8thrasher
The report into the "breathing" problems at the VIRGIN terminal in Melbourne was on TV last night. They had footage of "bouncers" being taken to ambulances on stretchers.
I think maybe some one beat you to the curry shop and then REVENGE was, well, maybe not sweet, but appropriate!!
I think maybe some one beat you to the curry shop and then REVENGE was, well, maybe not sweet, but appropriate!!
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Airport security in Australia is woeful.
Why?
1) A general lax attitude that "it can't happen here".
Absolutely incredible that many OZ pilots and the public believe that OZ is safe from terrorists and that we should feel safe/immune from threats. We are probably 4th or 5th in line on the most hated western countries list to some of the radicals out there. And probably the easiest target in their minds.
2) Airside access with little screening of ALL staff.
As many guys have said on this forum....why screen only flight/cabin crew? Extortion, ie threating a staff member to place something in a cargo hold or cabin is limited to flight and cabin crew only????
3) No boarding gate check of ID's.
Why don't we check ID's again prior to physically boarding the aircraft? Granted, ID's can be faked I guess by the true professional....but Mr 'Osama' who's intent on doing not so nice things can wander on board with 'John Smith's' boarding pass......no problem!
4) Little screening done on checked in bags.
Maybe things are improving here. About bloody time. Recent changes include xray/scanner devices on ALL checked in bags. But, is this at ALL airports that may fly to major airports?????
5) Inadequate security response from DoTARS
Self evident with the responses we've seen on this forum. Targeting flight and cabin crew only is disgusting. Doesn't send any message to the travelling public in my mind...except maybe that flight and cabin crew can't be trusted and pose more of a security risk than the baggage handler.
6) ASIC's will solve everything.
This is so wrong. Those naive enough out there to think that just because you or someone else holds an ASIC means you are absolutely trustworthy......well, wake up. An ASIC card only proves that you are supposedly criminal record free etc AT THE TIME of APPLICATION. In the mean time, you visit Osama's camps and get 'indoctrinated'....or last night, you were rung up and had your family threatened by someone who wanted you to put a package in the cargo hold. What would you do? Your ASIC card means very little in my mind.
7) Inconsistant Security across the country
Sydney checks for this and that, MEL hassles crew about their binders where other airports do not, HBA seems more interested in checking for fruit than any thing else. I'm sure more examples are to be found.
SUMMARY
Scan everyone who has access airside. Be consistant across the country on the things that are scanned for. Get real, it CAN happen here (which is a pity). Check ID's again as pax board the aircraft. Encourage the full implementation of checked in baggage screening (not just random cx). This costs money I know....maybe a few less JSF aircraft will help pay for it???
I felt safer flying in the UK than i do here.......
Why?
1) A general lax attitude that "it can't happen here".
Absolutely incredible that many OZ pilots and the public believe that OZ is safe from terrorists and that we should feel safe/immune from threats. We are probably 4th or 5th in line on the most hated western countries list to some of the radicals out there. And probably the easiest target in their minds.
2) Airside access with little screening of ALL staff.
As many guys have said on this forum....why screen only flight/cabin crew? Extortion, ie threating a staff member to place something in a cargo hold or cabin is limited to flight and cabin crew only????
3) No boarding gate check of ID's.
Why don't we check ID's again prior to physically boarding the aircraft? Granted, ID's can be faked I guess by the true professional....but Mr 'Osama' who's intent on doing not so nice things can wander on board with 'John Smith's' boarding pass......no problem!
4) Little screening done on checked in bags.
Maybe things are improving here. About bloody time. Recent changes include xray/scanner devices on ALL checked in bags. But, is this at ALL airports that may fly to major airports?????
5) Inadequate security response from DoTARS
Self evident with the responses we've seen on this forum. Targeting flight and cabin crew only is disgusting. Doesn't send any message to the travelling public in my mind...except maybe that flight and cabin crew can't be trusted and pose more of a security risk than the baggage handler.
6) ASIC's will solve everything.
This is so wrong. Those naive enough out there to think that just because you or someone else holds an ASIC means you are absolutely trustworthy......well, wake up. An ASIC card only proves that you are supposedly criminal record free etc AT THE TIME of APPLICATION. In the mean time, you visit Osama's camps and get 'indoctrinated'....or last night, you were rung up and had your family threatened by someone who wanted you to put a package in the cargo hold. What would you do? Your ASIC card means very little in my mind.
7) Inconsistant Security across the country
Sydney checks for this and that, MEL hassles crew about their binders where other airports do not, HBA seems more interested in checking for fruit than any thing else. I'm sure more examples are to be found.
SUMMARY
Scan everyone who has access airside. Be consistant across the country on the things that are scanned for. Get real, it CAN happen here (which is a pity). Check ID's again as pax board the aircraft. Encourage the full implementation of checked in baggage screening (not just random cx). This costs money I know....maybe a few less JSF aircraft will help pay for it???
I felt safer flying in the UK than i do here.......
Last edited by Ramius1; 21st Mar 2005 at 04:49.
Sunfish has just returned from YMMB.
Large placards threatening fines of over $5000 for "unauthorised" entry airside.
Also large signs stating that "Weapons" must not be taken airside under threat of dire penalty.
Take a look at what constitutes "Weapons" as well as the "prohibited Items".
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/at...ons/reg109.htm
and
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/at...ons/reg107.htm
As a private pilot, I am no longer allowed to carry a leatherman.
Furthermore, those golfing trips are now OUT - Golf clubs are weapons.
Petrol is also a weapon!
So are all the tools in the hangar.
Someone had better rewrite this by way of providing exemption for flight crew, operations and maintenance staff in GA or PPL before we get some high profile and stupid prosecutions.
Furthermore as of next year, I can't simply stroll over to a hangar without an ASIC, and If I land at a security controlled airport without an ASIC what happens then???
Furthermore, If I decide to have a barney with some "security" officer over this roilling stupidity and get charged and convicted with an "aviation related security offence" then my ASIC and then licence is gone for good. So we are going to see a flood of little Hitlers sprout up.
The sight of wheel clamps on aircraft, and apparently stern warnings about leaving an aircraft unlocked in broad daylight temporarily parked in front of a flying school is just a farce.
Could we please have a rethink of all this stuff?
Remember Al Qaeeda doesn't need to hijack a light aircraft. They have enough money to BUY one legally.
Large placards threatening fines of over $5000 for "unauthorised" entry airside.
Also large signs stating that "Weapons" must not be taken airside under threat of dire penalty.
Take a look at what constitutes "Weapons" as well as the "prohibited Items".
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/at...ons/reg109.htm
and
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/at...ons/reg107.htm
As a private pilot, I am no longer allowed to carry a leatherman.
Furthermore, those golfing trips are now OUT - Golf clubs are weapons.
Petrol is also a weapon!
So are all the tools in the hangar.
Someone had better rewrite this by way of providing exemption for flight crew, operations and maintenance staff in GA or PPL before we get some high profile and stupid prosecutions.
Furthermore as of next year, I can't simply stroll over to a hangar without an ASIC, and If I land at a security controlled airport without an ASIC what happens then???
Furthermore, If I decide to have a barney with some "security" officer over this roilling stupidity and get charged and convicted with an "aviation related security offence" then my ASIC and then licence is gone for good. So we are going to see a flood of little Hitlers sprout up.
The sight of wheel clamps on aircraft, and apparently stern warnings about leaving an aircraft unlocked in broad daylight temporarily parked in front of a flying school is just a farce.
Could we please have a rethink of all this stuff?
Remember Al Qaeeda doesn't need to hijack a light aircraft. They have enough money to BUY one legally.
Grandpa Aerotart
As enfuriating as they can be individual acts of defiance against purile security measures taken against professional aircrew are akin to pissing into a howling gale. Much better to simply smile at the morons and then put the delay down to them.
Don't wrap yourself up in a knot of tension over an inability to access your workplace because no-one is there who is authorised to give you access...just smile and wait...when you haven't turned up to the flightdeck because some moron was not where he was supposed to be put the delay down to them. Having arrived in the cockpit with half the usual time for preflight preparation DO NOT do said preparation in half the usual time out of some misguided desire to maintain schedule.
When your employer suggests turning up early but not signing on until the usual 1 hr before STD simply decline in the nicest possible way.
Sooner or later airlines will see that 30 minute turn arounds just became impossible...and that trips previously completed within one tour of duty cannot be completed anymore.
When QF, VB and Jet * + sundry subsidiaries file complaints with DOTARS or the minister then, and only then will things be improved.
As for the moronic rules pertaining to light aircraft security...well if AOPA/sundry type associations or whomever don't have the ability to influence then who does? I completely agree that if some terrorist organisation wants to crash an explosive laden C210 into parliament house then they can just buy one...would they not be doing us a big favour in the end anyway?
I'll bet that the next truck/car bomb will not lead to similarly draconian security measures against car owners...too much political downside to that scenario.
No matter how many individuals point out to the Politicians how stupid some of this stuff is it will have no measurable effect. Remember that over 90% of the population never fly anywhere...but are still terrified about dying in a hijacking...thanks almost entirely to scare mongering Politicians.
Keeping your population in a perpetual state of war...or fear of war...is one of the most effective forms of Govt control...what better way to stay in Power?
Al Quaida have already won...they don't need to follow up 911 with another similar attack....merely keeping the various Govts believing they are going to is enough to cause far more financial damage with no risk to themselves.
Brilliant tactics.
Don't wrap yourself up in a knot of tension over an inability to access your workplace because no-one is there who is authorised to give you access...just smile and wait...when you haven't turned up to the flightdeck because some moron was not where he was supposed to be put the delay down to them. Having arrived in the cockpit with half the usual time for preflight preparation DO NOT do said preparation in half the usual time out of some misguided desire to maintain schedule.
When your employer suggests turning up early but not signing on until the usual 1 hr before STD simply decline in the nicest possible way.
Sooner or later airlines will see that 30 minute turn arounds just became impossible...and that trips previously completed within one tour of duty cannot be completed anymore.
When QF, VB and Jet * + sundry subsidiaries file complaints with DOTARS or the minister then, and only then will things be improved.
As for the moronic rules pertaining to light aircraft security...well if AOPA/sundry type associations or whomever don't have the ability to influence then who does? I completely agree that if some terrorist organisation wants to crash an explosive laden C210 into parliament house then they can just buy one...would they not be doing us a big favour in the end anyway?
I'll bet that the next truck/car bomb will not lead to similarly draconian security measures against car owners...too much political downside to that scenario.
No matter how many individuals point out to the Politicians how stupid some of this stuff is it will have no measurable effect. Remember that over 90% of the population never fly anywhere...but are still terrified about dying in a hijacking...thanks almost entirely to scare mongering Politicians.
Keeping your population in a perpetual state of war...or fear of war...is one of the most effective forms of Govt control...what better way to stay in Power?
Al Quaida have already won...they don't need to follow up 911 with another similar attack....merely keeping the various Govts believing they are going to is enough to cause far more financial damage with no risk to themselves.
Brilliant tactics.
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everyone including crew flies NAKED! all baggage flies on a seperate aircraft!
as for the ASIC, anyone criminal can get one, as their misdeeds will only show up on a background check, IF they have been caught before!!
i view security in OZ the same way i see most speed limits , a complete farce.
as for the ASIC, anyone criminal can get one, as their misdeeds will only show up on a background check, IF they have been caught before!!
i view security in OZ the same way i see most speed limits , a complete farce.
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Aircraft Security
Gentlemen,
The main threat for non aerobridge aircraft is the cleaners. They are unscreened bring containers onboard, fiddle at seat backs etc then LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT.
They have the ability to place a gun or bomb onboard well hidden at a pre arranged seat.
Pilots and FOs on the other hand can crash the aircraft without a bomb or gun and are onboard at share the PAXs fate.
I know which one I would give priority to screening, this has been raised with DOTRS they advised we did not have the power as the airport owner to enforce the screenig even though they enter the airports SRA unscreened.
This foolish farce will be exposed and I hope rectified.
The main threat for non aerobridge aircraft is the cleaners. They are unscreened bring containers onboard, fiddle at seat backs etc then LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT.
They have the ability to place a gun or bomb onboard well hidden at a pre arranged seat.
Pilots and FOs on the other hand can crash the aircraft without a bomb or gun and are onboard at share the PAXs fate.
I know which one I would give priority to screening, this has been raised with DOTRS they advised we did not have the power as the airport owner to enforce the screenig even though they enter the airports SRA unscreened.
This foolish farce will be exposed and I hope rectified.
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Drunks breach security
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E23349,00.html
AIRPORT authorities are struggling to explain how three barely coherent drunk men scaled a fence and boarded an empty Qantas airbus sitting idle on a Perth tarmac.
A Qantas supervisor spotted the three giggling young men using a staff entrance to board the plane at the city's International Airport at 1.30am on Saturday.
He followed, and found the merry group relaxing in business class. When he asked one of them what they were doing, they said: "We were told we could get a drink here."
read more via the link...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E23349,00.html
AIRPORT authorities are struggling to explain how three barely coherent drunk men scaled a fence and boarded an empty Qantas airbus sitting idle on a Perth tarmac.
A Qantas supervisor spotted the three giggling young men using a staff entrance to board the plane at the city's International Airport at 1.30am on Saturday.
He followed, and found the merry group relaxing in business class. When he asked one of them what they were doing, they said: "We were told we could get a drink here."
read more via the link...
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A couple of things -
I've been wondering why I even have an ASIC if no one's going to check it during screening or only glance at it airside while they fine me $500 for wearing it inappropriately.
Couldn't I just be sent a letter to say I qualify for an ASIC and save a few $$ by going without the little plastic thingy. The card doesn't seem to do much for me at most Australian airports and can get me fined if I wear it upside down or on my belt.
No matter how appropriately presented aircrew are when encountering the screening droids in Australia, it seems no one passes by their equipment more easily that the guy dressed in a federal coppers uniform and casually sporting a shooter on his belt. Even airline check-in staff frequently popping a few metres back and forth between desks have to run this silly gauntlet, yet the guy with the mace, handcuffs and sidearm just nods as he passes by and continues his slow stroll.
I've been wondering why I even have an ASIC if no one's going to check it during screening or only glance at it airside while they fine me $500 for wearing it inappropriately.
Couldn't I just be sent a letter to say I qualify for an ASIC and save a few $$ by going without the little plastic thingy. The card doesn't seem to do much for me at most Australian airports and can get me fined if I wear it upside down or on my belt.
No matter how appropriately presented aircrew are when encountering the screening droids in Australia, it seems no one passes by their equipment more easily that the guy dressed in a federal coppers uniform and casually sporting a shooter on his belt. Even airline check-in staff frequently popping a few metres back and forth between desks have to run this silly gauntlet, yet the guy with the mace, handcuffs and sidearm just nods as he passes by and continues his slow stroll.
