CASA reply to PPRuNe email re TVL.
When you compare the two types of operators it becomes obvious that the poorer ones are badly managed or have either under, or over invested.
If CASA simply enforced the rules more (or was that less?) had more resources (or was that less?) tightened up the regulations (or was that loosen up the regulations?) focussed on education (or was that cured of its institutional timidity in enforcement?) became an economic regulator (or was that a safety regulator alone?) had a mandate to foster the industry (or was that no dual mandate?) made Airservices reduce the amount of controlled airspace (or was that increase the amount of controlled airspace?) was reintegrated with the air traffic control and services function and the Department (or was that separated from the service function and Department?) was subject to directions from the Minister (or was that independent of the political interference?) subsidised the industry (or was that let market forces prevail?) abolished the States (or was that get rid of the useless bureaucrats in Can'tberra?) made all pilots join a union and act in a united way (or was that keep out of industrial relations issues?) and well, you know, whatever, and just heeded the consistent messages from the experts in the industry, the skies would be abuzz with happy, profitable air operators.
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I thought it was a well conducted meeting with as much time as was needed to discuss issues that were considered important by the industry members that attended.
Minimal time was spent sabre rattling and giving policy speaches, well done to all.
There were a couple of anomolies identified, apparent "lost" NPRM responses to relevant CASR's, RCA's and their intented uses, CAR 35 approved repairs / modifications, Part 28 of the ACT, AOCM and others regarding CASA billing for AOC work.
This meeting is a huge indication of positive change, with the clear message to both CASA Staff and the Industry, " Get on the Bus, or Get Out ", sounds like a fair statement to me.
Minimal time was spent sabre rattling and giving policy speaches, well done to all.
There were a couple of anomolies identified, apparent "lost" NPRM responses to relevant CASR's, RCA's and their intented uses, CAR 35 approved repairs / modifications, Part 28 of the ACT, AOCM and others regarding CASA billing for AOC work.
This meeting is a huge indication of positive change, with the clear message to both CASA Staff and the Industry, " Get on the Bus, or Get Out ", sounds like a fair statement to me.
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I for one would agree Rock Chucker, some interesting issues came up and were not completely swept under the carpet, no liability was accepted but plenty of hurried writing in NH and AW note book.
To the young person that got up at the CS meeting to address a certain issue close to all our hearts, good on you.
BB's response clearly indicates he is quite aware of the allegations. Having used that very public event will provide you protection from revenge.
The claytons issue as identified by the Skehill Report is no longer deniable, that is very good.
BB, NH and company, well done for listening.
As we've seen by recent "Resource Re-allocations" in CB, BB has not to date tippy toe'd around difficult issues.
To the young person that got up at the CS meeting to address a certain issue close to all our hearts, good on you.
BB's response clearly indicates he is quite aware of the allegations. Having used that very public event will provide you protection from revenge.
The claytons issue as identified by the Skehill Report is no longer deniable, that is very good.
BB, NH and company, well done for listening.
As we've seen by recent "Resource Re-allocations" in CB, BB has not to date tippy toe'd around difficult issues.
Word "on the street" is there may be a few - possibly two - farewell parties going on in CASA, Townsville.............
Or are the farwell parties at the end of the long service leave?
Sadly, Torres didn't get an invite!!!
Or are the farwell parties at the end of the long service leave?
Sadly, Torres didn't get an invite!!!
Stinky. Am I right in assuming the deed is done and the industry sponsored after, after party for the two - who will be very sadly missed - will be this weekend?
Last edited by Torres; 28th Jul 2005 at 11:03.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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An earlier post on this thread.
Can it be that surely, resolutely and professionally we all move forward ?
There will be no heads on pikes at the entrance to the castle, but there will be a quiet sorting out.
There will be no "retribution" but there will be a quiet sorting out.
There will be no "vengeance", for whatever that is worth, but there will be a quiet sorting out.
Quietly and properly, the villains in whatever form will be rooted out.,
There is due process and there is the requirement for proper form.
If this is not followed then the pus and pain just gets worse.
I think it is time we trust those who have the responsibility, to act responsibly.
There will be no "retribution" but there will be a quiet sorting out.
There will be no "vengeance", for whatever that is worth, but there will be a quiet sorting out.
Quietly and properly, the villains in whatever form will be rooted out.,
There is due process and there is the requirement for proper form.
If this is not followed then the pus and pain just gets worse.
I think it is time we trust those who have the responsibility, to act responsibly.
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A bit of an update, which i feel is fantastic.
BB / AC, well done !!!!!!!!.
Ronalds equivalent in the Bicycle repair department has had his final day today.
Ronalds off on " Long Service Leave" next Friday.
RP is to be the Cairns based TLFO ( a blast from tha past ).
The Banjo Player will be "breakin-it-down banjo style" from sunny YBCS as of monday.
Well done indeed !!.
BB / AC, well done !!!!!!!!.
Ronalds equivalent in the Bicycle repair department has had his final day today.
Ronalds off on " Long Service Leave" next Friday.
RP is to be the Cairns based TLFO ( a blast from tha past ).
The Banjo Player will be "breakin-it-down banjo style" from sunny YBCS as of monday.
Well done indeed !!.
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I'm sure CASA's decisive action this past week has unanimous industry support and is to be applauded.
The clean up must continue, including a review of previous unjust decisions which have affected the careers and lives of many in the FNQ aviation industry. If they must be compensated for their damaged or lost careers and livelihood, so be it.........
Woomera
The clean up must continue, including a review of previous unjust decisions which have affected the careers and lives of many in the FNQ aviation industry. If they must be compensated for their damaged or lost careers and livelihood, so be it.........
Woomera
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Truth and Justice have prevailed.
BB, BG, NH, and especially the new boy, AC, well done!
Thank you for seeing this through. It has taken time, as Gaunty suggested it would,
it was very important to check and verify all information, and confirm the diagnosis before surgery.
Perhaps now the appropriate signal has been sent down through the ranks,
there is a reform process, either get on the bus, or get out.
Lets hope the momentum is sustained,
and it now appears that BB is the only CASA leader in the last two decades
able to achieve reform and change the culture.
The rest have been highly paid failures.
BB, BG, NH, and especially the new boy, AC, well done!
Thank you for seeing this through. It has taken time, as Gaunty suggested it would,
it was very important to check and verify all information, and confirm the diagnosis before surgery.
Perhaps now the appropriate signal has been sent down through the ranks,
there is a reform process, either get on the bus, or get out.
Lets hope the momentum is sustained,
and it now appears that BB is the only CASA leader in the last two decades
able to achieve reform and change the culture.
The rest have been highly paid failures.
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Mainframe
Don't start clapping until the performance is over.
We still need to hear that Pinnochio is now mowing lawns by day and delivering pizzas at night, both non aviation pursuits.
And the RFDS night specialist still needs to be counselled.
As for Mr Rum, who knows.
There is a new team, hopefully not yet contaminated by the misfits.
Now lets get on with addressing the safety issues in a peer to peer relationship, something like mutual consultation and mutual respect.
AC accords respect to the industry, and justifiably that respect is reciprocated.
Working together is the only way that safety can be improved in our region,
so let's give the new team trust, confidence and respect, as that is one way of ensuring we are treated likewise.
and yes, it appears that Truth and Justice did prevail.
CS
Don't start clapping until the performance is over.
We still need to hear that Pinnochio is now mowing lawns by day and delivering pizzas at night, both non aviation pursuits.
And the RFDS night specialist still needs to be counselled.
As for Mr Rum, who knows.
There is a new team, hopefully not yet contaminated by the misfits.
Now lets get on with addressing the safety issues in a peer to peer relationship, something like mutual consultation and mutual respect.
AC accords respect to the industry, and justifiably that respect is reciprocated.
Working together is the only way that safety can be improved in our region,
so let's give the new team trust, confidence and respect, as that is one way of ensuring we are treated likewise.
and yes, it appears that Truth and Justice did prevail.
CS
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Now that the doors are open, the first thing i'd like to see given some attention is the present CAR 206 " interpretation".
To Date CASA ( particularly OLC ) has gotten rather creative stating the use of registered travel agents is an acceptable method of the Shared Charter, blah blah blah.
Well CAR 206, in it present form needs to be either :
1. applied directly as per the many many many posts by Torres ( i.e what is written in the CAR ), subsequenlty many of the operators presently forced at gun point to be RPT would clearly not require to be RPT ,or
2. changed to suite the present CASA mindset.
Mail runs into and out of the Cape, Mount Isa etc etc, are not RPT, a fenced airstip in the middle of a farmers paddock in a Shrike / Baron / C402 is not in anyway consistent with the intent of RPT ( no direct comparison to QANTAS ).
Many of these runs do not meet all four requirements for RPT, Routes, Times, General Public, Fixed Terminals.
Is a Route a designated Route i.e. "W256" ( route designator ) ?,
Are Cattle Station Staff General Public ?, If you take tourists, how is this different to a Blue Mountains Scenic Flight.
Is a Fenced Paddock or a strip of grass at Murray Island a Fixed Terminal ?,
If it is RPT, should we be able to do it in aircraft that are not able to sufficently perform in an emergency to climb safely ( 1 percent to 5,000 ft, what a crock ) etc etc.
If it is RPT, then ensure the correct aircraft are on the routes, Twotter, King Air, but who will pay ?.
A Scenic Flight better meets the four requirements, much more readily than the Australia Post runs throughout Rural Australia.
To Date CASA ( particularly OLC ) has gotten rather creative stating the use of registered travel agents is an acceptable method of the Shared Charter, blah blah blah.
Well CAR 206, in it present form needs to be either :
1. applied directly as per the many many many posts by Torres ( i.e what is written in the CAR ), subsequenlty many of the operators presently forced at gun point to be RPT would clearly not require to be RPT ,or
2. changed to suite the present CASA mindset.
Mail runs into and out of the Cape, Mount Isa etc etc, are not RPT, a fenced airstip in the middle of a farmers paddock in a Shrike / Baron / C402 is not in anyway consistent with the intent of RPT ( no direct comparison to QANTAS ).
Many of these runs do not meet all four requirements for RPT, Routes, Times, General Public, Fixed Terminals.
Is a Route a designated Route i.e. "W256" ( route designator ) ?,
Are Cattle Station Staff General Public ?, If you take tourists, how is this different to a Blue Mountains Scenic Flight.
Is a Fenced Paddock or a strip of grass at Murray Island a Fixed Terminal ?,
If it is RPT, should we be able to do it in aircraft that are not able to sufficently perform in an emergency to climb safely ( 1 percent to 5,000 ft, what a crock ) etc etc.
If it is RPT, then ensure the correct aircraft are on the routes, Twotter, King Air, but who will pay ?.
A Scenic Flight better meets the four requirements, much more readily than the Australia Post runs throughout Rural Australia.
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LRT
It appears you have a basic understanding of the situation re Aust Post subsidised mail runs; but do you even know what barrow it is that you are pushing. Whats it to you? Making noise because you can it seems to me.
Confusing in your mind persons generally with general public does not change anything nor does referring to aircraft types in a juvenile manner.
Grow up get a hair cut and get a real job.
It appears you have a basic understanding of the situation re Aust Post subsidised mail runs; but do you even know what barrow it is that you are pushing. Whats it to you? Making noise because you can it seems to me.
Confusing in your mind persons generally with general public does not change anything nor does referring to aircraft types in a juvenile manner.
Grow up get a hair cut and get a real job.
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Spotlight,
For your information I have had quite alot to do with this.
"Confusing in your mind persons generally with general public does not change anything ", ???, ok, your point is ???, General Public "or" Public generally makes absolutley no difference.
A Scenic flight still better meets the four criteria.
In addition, CAR 206 has been in its present form for many many years, these mail runs were done 10 years ago in aircraft such as C182 / C210, why has it changed so much between then and now, and the same legislation is in place ?, any idea on that one Spotlight ?.
Aircraft were flying around the Torres Straits 10 years ago doing then in a C206 what is now done in an Islander ( not a bad upgrade in safety ), Incidently this all dramatically changed in 1999-2000, why the rapid change ?, but still the same CAR 206 is in place, then it was Charter, now it's RPT.
There are many differences in the way this reg has been applied, depending on which part of the country your are in, flowing down from this are issues such as CAAP 92 being accepted for this purpose by some area offices and not others ( the alternate method involves surveying these paddocks, at around $2,000 per strip ).
Notice that i suggest either operate as per the reg "or" change the reg to suit, that is hardly the statement of a person with a closed mind .
So to make it very easy for you to understand Spotlight, Either accept that these runs are not RPT or Make the Reg suit. Be carefull in doing so, DOTARS / Australia Post and the Station Staff would not be able to afford this RPT banner to be applied in it entirety, for example, paying for a seat if the run was operated by a Twin Otter with 2 Crew ( the seat prices would far more than double ).
The travelling public ( perhaps read RPT passengers ) are supposed to be afforded the absolute highest level of protection, which is exactly the way CASA is gearing at presesnt, These Mail Runs are stuck in the middle somewhere, in most part by "Interpretive" law, would it be easier if it was clear and concise from it's legislative head of power?.
Everyone one here is pushing a barrow, which barrow are you pushing and why so abusive ?.
For your information I have had quite alot to do with this.
"Confusing in your mind persons generally with general public does not change anything ", ???, ok, your point is ???, General Public "or" Public generally makes absolutley no difference.
A Scenic flight still better meets the four criteria.
In addition, CAR 206 has been in its present form for many many years, these mail runs were done 10 years ago in aircraft such as C182 / C210, why has it changed so much between then and now, and the same legislation is in place ?, any idea on that one Spotlight ?.
Aircraft were flying around the Torres Straits 10 years ago doing then in a C206 what is now done in an Islander ( not a bad upgrade in safety ), Incidently this all dramatically changed in 1999-2000, why the rapid change ?, but still the same CAR 206 is in place, then it was Charter, now it's RPT.
There are many differences in the way this reg has been applied, depending on which part of the country your are in, flowing down from this are issues such as CAAP 92 being accepted for this purpose by some area offices and not others ( the alternate method involves surveying these paddocks, at around $2,000 per strip ).
Notice that i suggest either operate as per the reg "or" change the reg to suit, that is hardly the statement of a person with a closed mind .
So to make it very easy for you to understand Spotlight, Either accept that these runs are not RPT or Make the Reg suit. Be carefull in doing so, DOTARS / Australia Post and the Station Staff would not be able to afford this RPT banner to be applied in it entirety, for example, paying for a seat if the run was operated by a Twin Otter with 2 Crew ( the seat prices would far more than double ).
The travelling public ( perhaps read RPT passengers ) are supposed to be afforded the absolute highest level of protection, which is exactly the way CASA is gearing at presesnt, These Mail Runs are stuck in the middle somewhere, in most part by "Interpretive" law, would it be easier if it was clear and concise from it's legislative head of power?.
Everyone one here is pushing a barrow, which barrow are you pushing and why so abusive ?.
Last edited by Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower; 6th Aug 2005 at 21:25.
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LRT
Again, whats it to you. What do you care? Are you a station owner concerned about staff travel, an owner of an AOC planning to tender, a local member raising matters of concern to your constituents. Obviously not!
So why all the verbiage? Bullsh!t baffles brains works if you are selling washing machines. Arguments at the level you make are downright insulting.
Again, whats it to you. What do you care? Are you a station owner concerned about staff travel, an owner of an AOC planning to tender, a local member raising matters of concern to your constituents. Obviously not!
So why all the verbiage? Bullsh!t baffles brains works if you are selling washing machines. Arguments at the level you make are downright insulting.
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Spotlight,
Like most people on this thread, have had to deal with inconsistent " interpretation" of this Regulation, at great expense to the us, the operator.
As you've answered none of my questions, i'd suggest what you have to offer on this topic, is of no interest, i am underwhelmed by your input, good bye.
Like most people on this thread, have had to deal with inconsistent " interpretation" of this Regulation, at great expense to the us, the operator.
As you've answered none of my questions, i'd suggest what you have to offer on this topic, is of no interest, i am underwhelmed by your input, good bye.
Last edited by Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower; 7th Aug 2005 at 10:55.