Dick threatens to sue AsA
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Fishhead,
By "topic" do you mean DS bashing, rather than the issue of AsA inflexibility.
IF as the early post suggests, ATC would take DS IFR but not VFR then there is a real problem with the system.
CJ
By "topic" do you mean DS bashing, rather than the issue of AsA inflexibility.
IF as the early post suggests, ATC would take DS IFR but not VFR then there is a real problem with the system.
CJ
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I personally see the topic as being Mr Smith using the mass media to push a message which is fundamentally flawed - ie, the danger of a ditch through a 'forced descent' and diversion - despite having already chose a high risk route over water in a single engine aircraft.
Personally, I also fail to see the hassle in going IFR - after all, it's not like he hasnt got the rating! In all my flying, I go IFR, unless it is a very simple scenic flight around town. If going from A to B, IFR gives me a level of security (real or imagined in this airspace) that I am very comfortable with. If I am flying with my family, there is no way I would ever go anything other than IFR - simply irresponsible to my kids to do otherwise. Even in the rare case of a VFR transit somewhere, I still put a flight plan in - funnily enough, I have never experienced a clearance refusal.
Still, that is his barrow to push.
Personally, I also fail to see the hassle in going IFR - after all, it's not like he hasnt got the rating! In all my flying, I go IFR, unless it is a very simple scenic flight around town. If going from A to B, IFR gives me a level of security (real or imagined in this airspace) that I am very comfortable with. If I am flying with my family, there is no way I would ever go anything other than IFR - simply irresponsible to my kids to do otherwise. Even in the rare case of a VFR transit somewhere, I still put a flight plan in - funnily enough, I have never experienced a clearance refusal.
Still, that is his barrow to push.
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Does anyone know as a fact that no flightplan was submitted, as it is rather a central issue?
And as a clarification, dick mentioned he rang to see if IFR clearance would be availiable, then why would he ask for an VFR clearance?
And as a clarification, dick mentioned he rang to see if IFR clearance would be availiable, then why would he ask for an VFR clearance?
Seasonally Adjusted
I smell a rat. How many "secretary's" would know of, or use the term "severe clear day" to describe weather conditions?
. Thank God for small mercies.
He does actually have other interests!
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Didn't someone mention ERSA, and transit not available below 10000' ? Why would Dick attempt to get a clearance for something that is proscribed, if it wasn't a media stunt? Does he rock up to military restricted areas, then complain that he didn't get clearance? Wasn't it Fri afternoon? Good time to try and transit SY!
As for AsA inflexibility- how flexible are the restrictions placed on ATC by the pollies? As to Dick claiming that IFR would've been available- I hope the facts are made public very soon. Maybe HE should be sued. It's about time someone took on the bully-boy.
"Give me clearance or I'll tell on you".
Doesn't 'use his influence'? My arse!
As for AsA inflexibility- how flexible are the restrictions placed on ATC by the pollies? As to Dick claiming that IFR would've been available- I hope the facts are made public very soon. Maybe HE should be sued. It's about time someone took on the bully-boy.
"Give me clearance or I'll tell on you".
Doesn't 'use his influence'? My arse!
ENR 1.1-2 3.7. An air traffic clearance proposed by ATC DOES NOT relieve the pilot from complying with satutory requirements NOR from the responsibility for the ultimate safety of the aircraft.
IMHO if not getting a clearance from ATC was such a crtical matter for flight safety worthy of suing ASA (disregarding the time already spent out of gliding range) then THE PILOT IN COMMAND is the one responsible. If the clearance was not available then the word require or a phrase declaring an emergency should have been used. It is the pilot in command in this case who should sue himself (IMHO).
IMHO if not getting a clearance from ATC was such a crtical matter for flight safety worthy of suing ASA (disregarding the time already spent out of gliding range) then THE PILOT IN COMMAND is the one responsible. If the clearance was not available then the word require or a phrase declaring an emergency should have been used. It is the pilot in command in this case who should sue himself (IMHO).
He does actually have other interests!
Dick doesn't do anything without an agenda. An opportunity to put the boot into ATC and Airservices can't be let pass.
Just Binos
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I'm not biting at Winnie, god bless him, just posing a hypothetical.
I am led to believe the owner of a certain "airline" who doesn't like seeing his company named in these halls once failed a civil ATC course, thus explaining his lifetime hatred of ATC. (I am open to correction there.)
Although Winnie's own account of his successes indicate he is a cross between Weary Dunlop and Chuck Yeager, I wonder if his pathological hatred of Oz ATC could stem from the same source?
Just a thought.
I am led to believe the owner of a certain "airline" who doesn't like seeing his company named in these halls once failed a civil ATC course, thus explaining his lifetime hatred of ATC. (I am open to correction there.)
Although Winnie's own account of his successes indicate he is a cross between Weary Dunlop and Chuck Yeager, I wonder if his pathological hatred of Oz ATC could stem from the same source?
Just a thought.
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Did you know that Australia manages 10% of the air traffic of the US
In fact, quite a bit less than 10% for the reader’s information…over 5000 airline passenger jets, over 1000 cargo jets, over 10,000 bizjets, over 200,000 GA airplanes on the US register. And they ALL get a clearance every time and on time with no fuss and no delay (except on occasion for weather).
Last time I checked, Australia did not have anywhere near 10% in any of these categories. Not to mention the number of “busy” terminal airspace airports in Australia can be counted on one hand. It is an insult to the airspace user (after paying the highest taxes in the world) to be subjected to these self-righteous, misguided, lazy incompetents.
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Churchill
Let us remember that Australia only has 8% of The US's Population
6 P's Mate
Proper Planning Prevents PISS POOR performance.
I Suggest u do a little more research befor you cast Frivolous Comments
Let us remember that Australia only has 8% of The US's Population
6 P's Mate
Proper Planning Prevents PISS POOR performance.
I Suggest u do a little more research befor you cast Frivolous Comments
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Have you noticed how his posts get more vitriolic the less bites he gets? Like a serial killer. More color, too. I'm opening a book on the colors used in the next one. 6/4 on purple.
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And they ALL get a clearance every time and on time with no fuss and no delay
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-air08.html
Last edited by bekolblockage; 8th Jul 2004 at 15:52.
Just Binos
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You're quite right, ferris. He really is busting a boiler isn't he?
But I have to apologise. I led the discussion off track. Winnie is just a pimple on the butt of aviation, but school holidays will be over shortly and we should concentrate our energies on the real enemy, not one of his adoring sycophants.
As long as this government is in power, Smith wields influence. However I suspect this latest episode may prove to be the final nail in his coffin. Surely even Anderson can't allow himself to continue to be led by the balls after this, even if Dick does have a photo of JA dragging a sheep back from the edge of a cliff.
Come on John, every man reaches a point where he must face the truth about himself. You're old enough to do it now. It will hurt for a while, but after a few years you'll feel better. For once, man, think for yourself; you can do it!
But I have to apologise. I led the discussion off track. Winnie is just a pimple on the butt of aviation, but school holidays will be over shortly and we should concentrate our energies on the real enemy, not one of his adoring sycophants.
As long as this government is in power, Smith wields influence. However I suspect this latest episode may prove to be the final nail in his coffin. Surely even Anderson can't allow himself to continue to be led by the balls after this, even if Dick does have a photo of JA dragging a sheep back from the edge of a cliff.
Come on John, every man reaches a point where he must face the truth about himself. You're old enough to do it now. It will hurt for a while, but after a few years you'll feel better. For once, man, think for yourself; you can do it!
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Well now, let me see.
A cap of 80 movements an hour, and 4 positions open at any one time, and I’m being conservative. I make that 15 aircraft an hour per position. Now in a 15 minute window, which is about as long as it would have taken Dick to transit the airspace, any one controller would have been talking to the huge number of four aircraft.
Isn’t that really scary. Adding a VFR flight to that four, to make a grand total of 5 aircraft on frequency. My goodness that must be really scary. I wouldn’t want to do that job. Pushing Tin wasn’t as frightening. Better tell the Australian that you were up to your necks in crocodiles. You should have seen it – there was one over here, and, uh, another over here, and, wait a minute, did I tell you about the really fast one over here. And then out of the blue someone asked me for a clearance. Nobody ever asked me for one of those before. And VFR too. I wouldn’t have a clue about entering that into my system, without at least 2 hours notice. Then I’ll be gone home. How do I put that into TAAATS anyway? Use the keyboard! Don't think so, mate!
Anyway, 8500 VFR, I’d have to stop my departures at, what, 8500 less 1000, take away the number you first thought of, add one for mum, that’s 7000 feet. Never done that before. Qantas won’t like it, yeah, that’s a good excuse, blame Qantas. What about the arrivals, they’d have to stop at, let me see, take away the first number, yeah, that’s 10,000 feet. But the STAR says reach 8000 by – no that won’t work. The poor overworked RPT pilot will be confused and that would be unsafe. Guess that’s another excuse. Safety.
Hang on, maybe there’s a runway change coming. Let’s see, maybe a shift to 34 from 16, for noise sharing. Juggling all those airplanes and a VFR flight at the same time. Far too awkward.
Those Cessna’s are pretty noisy, and it might throw the noise stats out. Guess I could refuse a clearance on environmental grounds.
Wait a minute. Didn’t we fix that in ERSA. Yeah, clearance not available, that’ll fix it. Check your AIP you dumbo. Yeah, AIP and ERSA. Good thinking.
“Mr Smith this is, er, the Sydney Approach Service, er, sorry, make that Sydney Approach, er, uh, due to the tremendous workload at the moment, and the change of runways, and the enormous environmental, er, considerations here in Sydney, and, er, because the QNH thingymabob just went U/S, and, er, due to me being a slack-ar*ed bas***d, er, oh no, disregard the last. ERSA page 672, paragraph 67.2 line 6.72 requires that for flights under 10,000 feet you need to pass “GO”. Did you pass “GO”? Thought not. Clearance NOT available. Remain outside controlled airspace, call again passing “GO”.
There, that’ll do it, now, where was I.
4 down: two words, (4, 7): Just how energetic is the brown fox’s mate – and did he know his father? L - - - , - A - - - - R - .
As expected, the world’s laziest and most uncooperative controllers, Sydney TMA controllers, couldn’t handle one little VFR flight. Oh dear, they couldn’t manage to put a flight plan into TAAATS. Oh dear, they couldn’t even RADTAG the aircraft.
Guess Airservices Australia should take the word SERVICE out. We don’t do that here.
You blokes are pathetic. It's a wonder you're not issued with colostomy bags, because you couldn't separate the cheeks of your ar*e.
Put aside the fact that this was Dick Smith. Put aside the tripe about endangering his family. What possible reason could you lazy ba###rds have for refusing a clearance to anyone with that little traffic. Unbelievable. Never heard of radar separation? Seems like the rest of the civilized world has.
I hope Dick screws the hell out of Airservices, and I hope the traveling public see how patheticly the so-called cream of air traffic control has curdled. I hope Airservices gives you the biggest kick in the ar*e.
Even the Melbourne and Brissie TMA controllers can do better! Even a Tamworth controller, in a procedural tower, knows how to clear a VFR flight. God knows even a Launnie controller could do it, if he had control of the airspace! Time to lift your pathetic game.
A cap of 80 movements an hour, and 4 positions open at any one time, and I’m being conservative. I make that 15 aircraft an hour per position. Now in a 15 minute window, which is about as long as it would have taken Dick to transit the airspace, any one controller would have been talking to the huge number of four aircraft.
Isn’t that really scary. Adding a VFR flight to that four, to make a grand total of 5 aircraft on frequency. My goodness that must be really scary. I wouldn’t want to do that job. Pushing Tin wasn’t as frightening. Better tell the Australian that you were up to your necks in crocodiles. You should have seen it – there was one over here, and, uh, another over here, and, wait a minute, did I tell you about the really fast one over here. And then out of the blue someone asked me for a clearance. Nobody ever asked me for one of those before. And VFR too. I wouldn’t have a clue about entering that into my system, without at least 2 hours notice. Then I’ll be gone home. How do I put that into TAAATS anyway? Use the keyboard! Don't think so, mate!
Anyway, 8500 VFR, I’d have to stop my departures at, what, 8500 less 1000, take away the number you first thought of, add one for mum, that’s 7000 feet. Never done that before. Qantas won’t like it, yeah, that’s a good excuse, blame Qantas. What about the arrivals, they’d have to stop at, let me see, take away the first number, yeah, that’s 10,000 feet. But the STAR says reach 8000 by – no that won’t work. The poor overworked RPT pilot will be confused and that would be unsafe. Guess that’s another excuse. Safety.
Hang on, maybe there’s a runway change coming. Let’s see, maybe a shift to 34 from 16, for noise sharing. Juggling all those airplanes and a VFR flight at the same time. Far too awkward.
Those Cessna’s are pretty noisy, and it might throw the noise stats out. Guess I could refuse a clearance on environmental grounds.
Wait a minute. Didn’t we fix that in ERSA. Yeah, clearance not available, that’ll fix it. Check your AIP you dumbo. Yeah, AIP and ERSA. Good thinking.
“Mr Smith this is, er, the Sydney Approach Service, er, sorry, make that Sydney Approach, er, uh, due to the tremendous workload at the moment, and the change of runways, and the enormous environmental, er, considerations here in Sydney, and, er, because the QNH thingymabob just went U/S, and, er, due to me being a slack-ar*ed bas***d, er, oh no, disregard the last. ERSA page 672, paragraph 67.2 line 6.72 requires that for flights under 10,000 feet you need to pass “GO”. Did you pass “GO”? Thought not. Clearance NOT available. Remain outside controlled airspace, call again passing “GO”.
There, that’ll do it, now, where was I.
4 down: two words, (4, 7): Just how energetic is the brown fox’s mate – and did he know his father? L - - - , - A - - - - R - .
As expected, the world’s laziest and most uncooperative controllers, Sydney TMA controllers, couldn’t handle one little VFR flight. Oh dear, they couldn’t manage to put a flight plan into TAAATS. Oh dear, they couldn’t even RADTAG the aircraft.
Guess Airservices Australia should take the word SERVICE out. We don’t do that here.
You blokes are pathetic. It's a wonder you're not issued with colostomy bags, because you couldn't separate the cheeks of your ar*e.
Put aside the fact that this was Dick Smith. Put aside the tripe about endangering his family. What possible reason could you lazy ba###rds have for refusing a clearance to anyone with that little traffic. Unbelievable. Never heard of radar separation? Seems like the rest of the civilized world has.
I hope Dick screws the hell out of Airservices, and I hope the traveling public see how patheticly the so-called cream of air traffic control has curdled. I hope Airservices gives you the biggest kick in the ar*e.
Even the Melbourne and Brissie TMA controllers can do better! Even a Tamworth controller, in a procedural tower, knows how to clear a VFR flight. God knows even a Launnie controller could do it, if he had control of the airspace! Time to lift your pathetic game.
Last edited by World's Worst; 8th Jul 2004 at 21:42.
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Hear, hear.
Lift your game. What the hell were you thinking? It was late afternoon, and you were still only on 4 down? You should have at least 8 excuses ready to deny clearances. World's best? I don't think so! You earn $235,000 a year, and you LOWERED yourself to even reply to a VFR. Tsk tsk.
Oh, colostomy bags- another thing to put in the claim.
Coffee, anyone?
Lift your game. What the hell were you thinking? It was late afternoon, and you were still only on 4 down? You should have at least 8 excuses ready to deny clearances. World's best? I don't think so! You earn $235,000 a year, and you LOWERED yourself to even reply to a VFR. Tsk tsk.
Oh, colostomy bags- another thing to put in the claim.
Coffee, anyone?