Why do we need to be more restrictive than the USA?
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Was that a Freudian slip Ferris - "ominously quiet"?
It appears in all his attempts to initiate changes that Dick personalises the argument and takes the attitude of all or nothing. Subsequently it seems that the response in opposition has evolved to a similar format. Both sides have a "take no prisoners" attitude. What a shame! Dick should have realised by now that he can't "win" using these tactics except in small arenas. Aviation interests have divided into sides and teams and there seems to be this current recruitment drive to get supporters on one side or the other. There is no clear winner from all this, but aviation is the definite loser.
As a result of all these shenanigans, there appears this enticing middle ground that remains out of reach and forgotten yet again. It's not that one side is absolutely right and the other wrong. Both sides have valid points, but in the confrontationalist and heavy-handed tactics employed by Dick, truth and common sense appear to be the first casualties in his relentless push for the absolute.
In my opinion, NAS has some very good aspects. The previous airspace had some fine aspects too. Class E airspace, particularly in radar coverage over Class C and Class D, is both pleasureable and convenient to fly in. It's such a disappointment to have the whole program relegated to a simplistic, basic vote of "NAS" or "No NAS", which can also be confused with a vote for or against Dick Smith. But that's how Dick runs his campaigns and if he continues to do so, then I don't see how he can expect any other reaction from the aviation community than what he is getting now.
It appears in all his attempts to initiate changes that Dick personalises the argument and takes the attitude of all or nothing. Subsequently it seems that the response in opposition has evolved to a similar format. Both sides have a "take no prisoners" attitude. What a shame! Dick should have realised by now that he can't "win" using these tactics except in small arenas. Aviation interests have divided into sides and teams and there seems to be this current recruitment drive to get supporters on one side or the other. There is no clear winner from all this, but aviation is the definite loser.
As a result of all these shenanigans, there appears this enticing middle ground that remains out of reach and forgotten yet again. It's not that one side is absolutely right and the other wrong. Both sides have valid points, but in the confrontationalist and heavy-handed tactics employed by Dick, truth and common sense appear to be the first casualties in his relentless push for the absolute.
In my opinion, NAS has some very good aspects. The previous airspace had some fine aspects too. Class E airspace, particularly in radar coverage over Class C and Class D, is both pleasureable and convenient to fly in. It's such a disappointment to have the whole program relegated to a simplistic, basic vote of "NAS" or "No NAS", which can also be confused with a vote for or against Dick Smith. But that's how Dick runs his campaigns and if he continues to do so, then I don't see how he can expect any other reaction from the aviation community than what he is getting now.
Last edited by Lodown; 21st Apr 2004 at 22:03.
Thread Starter
Binoculars, you state that I am permanently set on transmit and the receiver is switched off in the same way that Keith Williams, Kerry Packer and Gerry Harvey. I can’t speak for those three, but you are making out that I have greater abilities that I have.
All of my success has come from constantly asking advice and then choosing which is the correct advice. Yes, I do agree that by making that decision I quite often offend people who have given me advice that I don’t accept, however I rarely do anything that is original. Virtually in all cases I follow something which has been proven successful and which people with far greater knowledge and ability have advised me to do.
It is the same with the airspace. I originally started to bring in the North American airspace system in 1991. It was all to be completed, if I remember correctly, by about June of 1994. It has been the people with at attitude of “it wasn’t built here” that have tried to stop a better system from being introduced here.
By the way, Four Seven Eleven, if you really believe in what you say you would phone me. You spend an enormous amount of time on this matter but you are too scared to say who you are. How can you possibly have any credibility? I simply don’t believe that you could be in such a lowly position that you will be prejudiced if you actually admit to who you are and not hide behind anonymity. Surely it must really worry you, as most people would take absolutely no notice of someone who is anonymous. It looks as if you have virtually no influence because of this anonymity. The reason I have influence is because I am completely open with my beliefs and prepared to talk to anyone in relation to these beliefs.
It is simply completely beyond me why you can’t be open, and using rational argument and good leadership, get your beliefs accepted.
I can see why you get so angry. My suggestion is that you put your real name on your postings, get some credibility and you might have some influence.
All of my success has come from constantly asking advice and then choosing which is the correct advice. Yes, I do agree that by making that decision I quite often offend people who have given me advice that I don’t accept, however I rarely do anything that is original. Virtually in all cases I follow something which has been proven successful and which people with far greater knowledge and ability have advised me to do.
It is the same with the airspace. I originally started to bring in the North American airspace system in 1991. It was all to be completed, if I remember correctly, by about June of 1994. It has been the people with at attitude of “it wasn’t built here” that have tried to stop a better system from being introduced here.
By the way, Four Seven Eleven, if you really believe in what you say you would phone me. You spend an enormous amount of time on this matter but you are too scared to say who you are. How can you possibly have any credibility? I simply don’t believe that you could be in such a lowly position that you will be prejudiced if you actually admit to who you are and not hide behind anonymity. Surely it must really worry you, as most people would take absolutely no notice of someone who is anonymous. It looks as if you have virtually no influence because of this anonymity. The reason I have influence is because I am completely open with my beliefs and prepared to talk to anyone in relation to these beliefs.
It is simply completely beyond me why you can’t be open, and using rational argument and good leadership, get your beliefs accepted.
I can see why you get so angry. My suggestion is that you put your real name on your postings, get some credibility and you might have some influence.
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Same old drivel – Groundhog Day AGAIN
Smith
Thousands of words discussing technical issues, exploring and explaining why your AusNAS is LESS SAFE than that it replaced. The ATSB confirming the same by investigation of the RA’s that have occurred. On and On and On you go!
Your reply is yet again devoid of ANY technical reasoning to support your assertion that
My bolding and underlining
Richard, Richard, Richard!
And then as usual, like cheap Chinese clockwork, out rolls the Ol’ chestnut of anonymity to 4711!
Really? Seems you take the time to notice. A person of your calibre reduced to waffling on the (Nobody will notice) Internet, even though
Should that have read:- talk at anyone?. Richard, you really ort to stop ‘smacking the short bloke’ so regularly! You will go blind you know! 
Wishful thinking Ol’ Cock!
Good point! It is simply completely beyond me why you can’t be open, and using rational argument and good leadership, get your beliefs accepted. echo echo echo…
We must be coming to the end of this current exchange as this is the stock standard ‘tantie’ post prior to the disappearing act…..Lets hope so!
And did I mention:-
Richard: You got it wrong!
Edited to replace a rogue UBB thingie
Thousands of words discussing technical issues, exploring and explaining why your AusNAS is LESS SAFE than that it replaced. The ATSB confirming the same by investigation of the RA’s that have occurred. On and On and On you go!
Your reply is yet again devoid of ANY technical reasoning to support your assertion that
It has been the people with at attitude of “it wasn’t built here” that have tried to stop a better system from being introduced here.
Richard, Richard, Richard!
And then as usual, like cheap Chinese clockwork, out rolls the Ol’ chestnut of anonymity to 4711!
Surely it must really worry you, as most people would take absolutely no notice of someone who is anonymous.
The reason I have influence is because I am completely open with my beliefs and prepared to talk to anyone in relation to these beliefs.
It looks as if you have virtually no influence because of this anonymity.
It is simply completely beyond me why you can’t be open, and using rational argument and good leadership, get your beliefs accepted.
We must be coming to the end of this current exchange as this is the stock standard ‘tantie’ post prior to the disappearing act…..Lets hope so!
And did I mention:-
Richard: You got it wrong!
Edited to replace a rogue UBB thingie
Last edited by Capcom; 22nd Apr 2004 at 14:31.
LODOWN'S POST
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Dick,
You have stated
Fair enough, but it seems that any one who doesn't take or agree with your advise is wrong?
Beliefs are only valid in religion and following footy teams - the real world works on emperical evidence.
You have stated
All of my success has come from constantly asking advice and then choosing which is the correct advice
Beliefs are only valid in religion and following footy teams - the real world works on emperical evidence.
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I note that Mr Smith has chosen not to respond to my request for his phone number, such that we can cordially discuss our views.
Given that Mr Smith believes this to be the case, then he won't have a problem with me publishing his contact numbers, copied from another BB.
All of you who feel strongly about this, put your views direct to the source. Give him a call.
if you really believe in what you say you would phone me
My business number is 02 9450 0600. My mobile number is 0408 640 221.
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To be fair CJ, Dick has posted his contact details on other threads at other times for 4711 and others and I'm sure we can forgive him for not spending 24/7 on Pprune to keep track of every comment.
Prof. Airport Engineer
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Oh dear, oh dear.
Has Dick Smith done it again?
from http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=5
and on page 2 of this thread, Dick Smith has posted a big fancy graph. Looks pretty worrying – GA hours dropping like that. Well, before I worry too much more, let me personally check the statistics. After all, we wouldn't want any misleading information again, now would we?
Thanks PGH for giving me the reference. I went there just now. The data looks a bit different when it hasn't been plotted so carefully. The hours in private flying don't look so bad. Business flying is down, a bit, but charter flying is up. Maybe the businessmen have shifted from business to charter.
Overall? The full facts do look rather different to what Dick was saying. Still, this just goes to show that he has the ability to get people jumping through hoops. He certainly has done so in this thread. And this is the professional end of town. If he has us jumping around like this on a dodgy graph, which we of all people should be able to check, no wonder he can make mincemeat out of politicians.
Has Dick Smith done it again?
from http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=5
I now feel that any statement by Dick Smith cannot be accepted by me until I have personally checked the references, quotes, 'facts' or statistics to see if any key sentences have been left out.
Thanks PGH for giving me the reference. I went there just now. The data looks a bit different when it hasn't been plotted so carefully. The hours in private flying don't look so bad. Business flying is down, a bit, but charter flying is up. Maybe the businessmen have shifted from business to charter.
Overall? The full facts do look rather different to what Dick was saying. Still, this just goes to show that he has the ability to get people jumping through hoops. He certainly has done so in this thread. And this is the professional end of town. If he has us jumping around like this on a dodgy graph, which we of all people should be able to check, no wonder he can make mincemeat out of politicians.
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Dick,
What happened to supporting Austalia...... Saw your interview on A current Affair the other night, and then look at your comments on here and think.......... Gees we HAD the best record of safety in the world.......... but Australian ways are not good enough for you!!!!!!!!! You complain about selling out...... but just look at yourself you ****ing hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What happened to supporting Austalia...... Saw your interview on A current Affair the other night, and then look at your comments on here and think.......... Gees we HAD the best record of safety in the world.......... but Australian ways are not good enough for you!!!!!!!!! You complain about selling out...... but just look at yourself you ****ing hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Torres has hit the nail on the head. It's all about the downturn in agriculture.
However this is due to those nasty people making complaints about NAS. Look - this graph proves it:
However this is due to those nasty people making complaints about NAS. Look - this graph proves it:
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Overrun,
Looking at the graphs(the first one) is there a correlation to Aust GDP or Discount airfare wars?
Certainly the RPT figures would be healthier, now we have the true "GA" figures can anyone determine the parameters other than Rural drought?
If you take Dick Smiths line of argument the failure of the G class test should have led to a downturn and it did not. What does correlate- the main users in WA is our mining sector and its health in certainly a factor, what about the rest of Australia. What makes it tick can it correlate to new car sales(disposable wealth indicator)? - Any ideas?
Looking at the graphs(the first one) is there a correlation to Aust GDP or Discount airfare wars?
Certainly the RPT figures would be healthier, now we have the true "GA" figures can anyone determine the parameters other than Rural drought?
If you take Dick Smiths line of argument the failure of the G class test should have led to a downturn and it did not. What does correlate- the main users in WA is our mining sector and its health in certainly a factor, what about the rest of Australia. What makes it tick can it correlate to new car sales(disposable wealth indicator)? - Any ideas?
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By the way, Four Seven Eleven, if you really believe in what you say you would phone me.
Now, why don’t you and Winstun just go off and play amongst yourselves and leave cleaning up your mess to the professionals.
About the only good that will come of this whole sorry saga is that your dangerous, callous and selfish attitude will now be exposed for all the public to see.
So, you’ve blamed the controllers, you’ve blamed the pilots. Who else is there to blame for the mess you created?
You do not even have the guts to stand up and address the safety disaster you are responsible for.
You tell lies on your own web-site (about anonymity).
You have lied to me personally.
You have lied about who was responsible for the risk to Australian lives in the recent incidents.
You lied when you said we were getting the US system.
When will you start to tell the truth?
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Birdstrikes reduce accidents
A new study by the YTRY Institute of Satistics has found a remarkable connection between birdstrikes and aircraft accident rates.
As clearly visible in the graph above, accident rates have soared when the birds haven't. During migratory periods, however, the accident rates have lulled.
When asked for comment, the Controllers' Association has said that most migratory species fall outside the requirements for transponder carriage in Class E airspace; accidents occurring in this airspace are part of the normal procedures and therefore aren't recorded in the official statistics.
YTRY Institute sources claimed CA members as scaremongers who would be no good as scarecrows in Gwydir.
The Minister's office failed to return our calls.
The Member for Shortfinalinsydney claimed this was all part of a federal government strategy to inflict more noise upon the residents of the inner city and promised to replace Kingsford Smith with a new international airport in the southern highlands, freeing up the wetlands of Botany Bay for the endangered migratory spotting dick.
Meanwhile a journalist was sacked for demonstrating severe lack of technical knowledge while writing an aviation-related puff piece.
