Skippers Aviation & QF Cadet scheme
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Skippers Aviation & QF Cadet scheme
Beleive it or not but have just been told from a reliable source that Skippers aviation in Perth has just taken on a young good looking blonde lady that use to work in the ground ops for skippers and put her on the Dash 8 as an FO as part of her QF cadet scheme.The young lady has all of a bare comercial and instrument rating!!Seems Airnorth couldnt make a position for her, so Skippers helped out.
My concern is that not only have QF started recruiting more cadets than direct entry SO's, but now the companys that once employed us experienced GA pilots appear be turning towards the gravy train of the QF cadet program.So where too now for us pilots with too many hours for the QF cadet scheme, and no turbine hours for other regionals like easterns??
hmmmmm interesting times ahead for the industry
My concern is that not only have QF started recruiting more cadets than direct entry SO's, but now the companys that once employed us experienced GA pilots appear be turning towards the gravy train of the QF cadet program.So where too now for us pilots with too many hours for the QF cadet scheme, and no turbine hours for other regionals like easterns??
hmmmmm interesting times ahead for the industry
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My concern is that not only have QF started recruiting more cadets than direct entry SO's
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So where too now for us pilots with too many hours for the QF cadet scheme, and no turbine hours for other regionals like easterns??
Judging by past hiring patterns, about 20% (maybe a bit less) of new starters have no turbine experience whatsoever. Therefore a lack of turbine time does not necessarily exclude you from getting an interview and a job. 20% is better than none. My personal feeling is that hiring patterns are driven by market forces. For example, in Sept 2001 when all Kendell & Hazelton pilots were made redundant, (a period where steady recruiting was still going on in Eastern), there were almost no piston drivers employed. IMHO not just because they have turbine time, but experienced in multi crew RPT, used to working with SOPs etc. In other words, people that require the least amount of training to fit into the operation.
Having said that, I'm a bit segregated from the training dept, but I doubt that there are too many training issues associated with having never flown a turbine. It's more getting into the groove with multi-crew if you've never done it before, and getting used to working with fairly tight SOPs.
Eastern have ramped up interviewing and are doing an average of 4 interview days per month, or 16 interviews. This looks like continuing indefinitely
Get an app in regardless. Give them a call. You never know what might happen
Good luck
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 19th Mar 2004 at 07:59.
How interesting, I was just discussing the likelihood of Skippers taking cadets about ten minutes ago with a mate. That's GA company number three taking QF cadets that I know of. I personally have nothing against cadets, I have met a couple and they're decent blokes, just like anyone else starting in aviation. Sure wish I had the same chance and am not going to hold it against them.
Anyway, what I'll be interested in is if there's plans to have cadets placed in companies like Easterns further down the track, perhaps after some initial industry experience such as the guys (and girl
) who are now in the GA system, OR if it will become like Europe, where these guys (and girls) will be slotted into RHS of larger aircraft such as the Dash. I guess only time will tell...
Luckily I've just beaten them in See ya soon Jarse
Anyway, what I'll be interested in is if there's plans to have cadets placed in companies like Easterns further down the track, perhaps after some initial industry experience such as the guys (and girl
) who are now in the GA system, OR if it will become like Europe, where these guys (and girls) will be slotted into RHS of larger aircraft such as the Dash. I guess only time will tell...Luckily I've just beaten them in
See ya soon Jarse
Boomerang,
Having QF cadets joining QF regionals.....?
Having QF cadets going through the ranks as a guarenteed supply of pilots for QF regionals and then later on transferring to mainlane....?
Now now old friend. That would be logical! Wouldn't it?
(It is Qantas we are talking about after all).
Having QF cadets joining QF regionals.....?
Having QF cadets going through the ranks as a guarenteed supply of pilots for QF regionals and then later on transferring to mainlane....?
Now now old friend. That would be logical! Wouldn't it?
(It is Qantas we are talking about after all).
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MILFhunter, there have been about 4 times as many QF recruits from other sources as there have been cadets over the past year, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.
Besides, I heard she was more of a brunette
Besides, I heard she was more of a brunette
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Boomerang - Cadets with Eastern has already been raised and the reply was I believe "so we're good enough to train your cadets and give them experience but not good enough to get progression ourselves due to being inferior regional pilots" end of discussion
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I wonder what value adding contribution she has made to the company.
The thread is about Skippers and QF cadets.
Read the first post re Air Norths inability to take the cadet and Skippers doing so.
Qantas decided that the "a young good looking blonde lady that use to work in the ground ops for skippers " was a suitable cadet and had the potential to proceed her career to ultimate Captaincy.
If she was good enough to win that confidence, then I would be amazed if she had not added much value during her ground based employment at Skippers.
Nothing more nothing less, lets keep it that way shall we.
W
The thread is about Skippers and QF cadets.
Read the first post re Air Norths inability to take the cadet and Skippers doing so.
Qantas decided that the "a young good looking blonde lady that use to work in the ground ops for skippers " was a suitable cadet and had the potential to proceed her career to ultimate Captaincy.
If she was good enough to win that confidence, then I would be amazed if she had not added much value during her ground based employment at Skippers.
Nothing more nothing less, lets keep it that way shall we.
W
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd Mar 2004 at 12:20.
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The lass is a very good pilot from all accounts.
It's hard not to equate cadet with a young pilot.
I know this girl had a life outside flying before all this, and remember...she probably reads these posts.
Go easy.
It's hard not to equate cadet with a young pilot.
I know this girl had a life outside flying before all this, and remember...she probably reads these posts.
Go easy.
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It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the Metro fo's working for Skippers that have been waiting for their slot on the Dash.
I personally would be a little peeved to be jumped over by a 200hr cadet, QF captain potential or not, doesnt make a difference. Qantas works on seniority for promotion and so should skippers, helps keep the moral within.
I personally would be a little peeved to be jumped over by a 200hr cadet, QF captain potential or not, doesnt make a difference. Qantas works on seniority for promotion and so should skippers, helps keep the moral within.
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Its not an attack on the lady in qu by any means, its questioning the system.
If the lady in qu was a guy in qu would all the defence that has been posted be indeed posted???
Good on her for a fantastic start to her QF career!!....but its jumping the line just a little bit.
What i do find annoying about companies is when they give pilots (male or female or transgender with blonde or brown hair, ugly or stunning) excuses for not employing them like " go get some cabin class twin time", "go get some northern aust experience", "you have only instructional twin time"........yet they then turn arround and employ very low time/experience pilots with bare ratings.
If the lady in qu was a guy in qu would all the defence that has been posted be indeed posted???
Good on her for a fantastic start to her QF career!!....but its jumping the line just a little bit.
What i do find annoying about companies is when they give pilots (male or female or transgender with blonde or brown hair, ugly or stunning) excuses for not employing them like " go get some cabin class twin time", "go get some northern aust experience", "you have only instructional twin time"........yet they then turn arround and employ very low time/experience pilots with bare ratings.
Last edited by MILFhunter; 24th Mar 2004 at 10:02.
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Q
No, this is a different girl.
Very good pilot. Was in the medical science (?) profession before she started flying professionally.
Went jump flying once with her about 18 months ago.
Lovely lady and a true professional
Dawnie
No, this is a different girl.
Very good pilot. Was in the medical science (?) profession before she started flying professionally.
Went jump flying once with her about 18 months ago.
Lovely lady and a true professional
Dawnie
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merit merit where is my merit
Your gripes are not with this poor girl, but with the system you work under. It is unfair to harrass someone who is using the system to their advantage (honesty please gents). What you are facing here is the "the merit principle", a dark force steeped in multiple layers of family protection, darker and more sinister than the fat man himself. A force so powerful that not even thousands of hours >5700kgs turbine time could make one eligible for command.
Cadets schemes are not new, BA, QF, SAF, CX, UA, Delta all have them and they are successful. The RAAF lets 200 hour pilots fly 50 million dollar fast jets. This girl is only trying to make her career, you would all rather do it this way, rather than flying overloaded 206's out of KU (again honesty please)
Let her get on with it, as should you. Find creative ways of using the system. Perhaps you could annoint yourself as the "Antimerit", a force so disruptive and time wasting that no-one will ever actually task you with anything. Or you could just work in operations, under the disguise of Merituous behaviour only to be the mole, the all new Spikkers fugitive. "Spankers Ops say again???" Say again, say again,......aircraft calling Skippers standby"....PARP".
So instead of serving the company for 4-5 years, gaining valuable regional , demanding turbine time, then being promoted to fly the 120 or Dash, just paint a few rocks, establish systems that have no purpose, teach courses no -one cares about, add a special title after your name , acquire an office in the building, kiss clients asses, kiss CEO's ass, Kiss Family members ass's daily, make terminal staff feel that despite having no formal training, that they could really fly to Leinster at night if the company really needed them to, and no crew were available. Never park out the front (very naughty, 2 demerit points), dont smoke anywhere, not even in the same state. Dont throw food around at Social club functions. Dont vomit at Social club functions. Dont remove clothing at Social club functions. Dont pick fights with ramp staff at social club functions. Dont throw glass ware from moving vehicle hired by social club for social club functions. Dont fly approaches in company aircraft thats what your check1 and 2 is for. Dont use foam cups for coffee, use empty discarded crew meal containers. Dont eat crew meals, so they can be re-used for the afternoon shift. Dont tamper with paperwork in operations. Dont read newspapers in flight. Always talk to passengers. Dont purposely kick passenger baggage from the aircraft hold. Dont purposely remain in turbulence because a passenger was abrupt with you. Dont choke one out after a curry night in the Metro23 lavatory. Dont amend company memos' to read as you think correct. Dont engage in tomfoolery on the company frequency. Dont assume that an innocent pat on the buttocks of female colleagues / passengers is appreciated. Storage of pornographic material in aircraft document folders is appreciated and can offend some sensitive crewmembers. Dont turn with prop wash blowing over the minesite dongers as a good bye gesture. Some staff and passengers dont understand ICAO flight deck sign language so dont use it to signal people from live aircraft. Especially dont use this type of sign language close to the terminal. Skipping past the terminal in the rain singing may be funny to you, but isnt to passengers. The aircraft emergency torches should not be used to make scary faces at passengers at night in the cruise especially RPT Clients. The VIP room is not a night club for your use. The VIP room shouldnt be used for your rest and recuperation or foe entertaining female guests. Solitaire is not classified as a form of flight planning. Fuel checks and 3% checks were designed back in 1914 and really should be taken with a practical view. Magna sticks can be very accurate and well within 3%. Try to involve ops in all your operational decision making, remember there is no I in team. Just because operations is housed in an impermeable silver and eavesdropping proof container and is inaccessible and uncontactable by crew , try to remain as a team. Once again operations staff are not converant with ICAO flight deck sign languages, so dont create confusion by using at the windows of operations. Remember weather is subjective, no one really understands it so why worry about it so much, ops dont so why should you.
Embrace the MERIT, let it course through your veins. Feel the love, feel the togetherness. Remember..." If you are full of.....MERIT, we will give you the CREDIT".
Did I say dont throw food at Social club functions"
Cadets schemes are not new, BA, QF, SAF, CX, UA, Delta all have them and they are successful. The RAAF lets 200 hour pilots fly 50 million dollar fast jets. This girl is only trying to make her career, you would all rather do it this way, rather than flying overloaded 206's out of KU (again honesty please)
Let her get on with it, as should you. Find creative ways of using the system. Perhaps you could annoint yourself as the "Antimerit", a force so disruptive and time wasting that no-one will ever actually task you with anything. Or you could just work in operations, under the disguise of Merituous behaviour only to be the mole, the all new Spikkers fugitive. "Spankers Ops say again???" Say again, say again,......aircraft calling Skippers standby"....PARP".
So instead of serving the company for 4-5 years, gaining valuable regional , demanding turbine time, then being promoted to fly the 120 or Dash, just paint a few rocks, establish systems that have no purpose, teach courses no -one cares about, add a special title after your name , acquire an office in the building, kiss clients asses, kiss CEO's ass, Kiss Family members ass's daily, make terminal staff feel that despite having no formal training, that they could really fly to Leinster at night if the company really needed them to, and no crew were available. Never park out the front (very naughty, 2 demerit points), dont smoke anywhere, not even in the same state. Dont throw food around at Social club functions. Dont vomit at Social club functions. Dont remove clothing at Social club functions. Dont pick fights with ramp staff at social club functions. Dont throw glass ware from moving vehicle hired by social club for social club functions. Dont fly approaches in company aircraft thats what your check1 and 2 is for. Dont use foam cups for coffee, use empty discarded crew meal containers. Dont eat crew meals, so they can be re-used for the afternoon shift. Dont tamper with paperwork in operations. Dont read newspapers in flight. Always talk to passengers. Dont purposely kick passenger baggage from the aircraft hold. Dont purposely remain in turbulence because a passenger was abrupt with you. Dont choke one out after a curry night in the Metro23 lavatory. Dont amend company memos' to read as you think correct. Dont engage in tomfoolery on the company frequency. Dont assume that an innocent pat on the buttocks of female colleagues / passengers is appreciated. Storage of pornographic material in aircraft document folders is appreciated and can offend some sensitive crewmembers. Dont turn with prop wash blowing over the minesite dongers as a good bye gesture. Some staff and passengers dont understand ICAO flight deck sign language so dont use it to signal people from live aircraft. Especially dont use this type of sign language close to the terminal. Skipping past the terminal in the rain singing may be funny to you, but isnt to passengers. The aircraft emergency torches should not be used to make scary faces at passengers at night in the cruise especially RPT Clients. The VIP room is not a night club for your use. The VIP room shouldnt be used for your rest and recuperation or foe entertaining female guests. Solitaire is not classified as a form of flight planning. Fuel checks and 3% checks were designed back in 1914 and really should be taken with a practical view. Magna sticks can be very accurate and well within 3%. Try to involve ops in all your operational decision making, remember there is no I in team. Just because operations is housed in an impermeable silver and eavesdropping proof container and is inaccessible and uncontactable by crew , try to remain as a team. Once again operations staff are not converant with ICAO flight deck sign languages, so dont create confusion by using at the windows of operations. Remember weather is subjective, no one really understands it so why worry about it so much, ops dont so why should you.
Embrace the MERIT, let it course through your veins. Feel the love, feel the togetherness. Remember..." If you are full of.....MERIT, we will give you the CREDIT".
Did I say dont throw food at Social club functions"
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Sydneyman et al
Perhaps it is time to take a breath and have a calm and rational think about all of this?
Firstly, been there, done that (GA), for a LONG time.
Secondly, this cadet (and all the other cadets that QF have employed over the past 12 months or so) was expecting to be sitting in the back of a 747 as soon as they finished their course. That QF has now instituted a cadet placement program has some implications for GA pilots.
This cadet is currently filling a place in a GA cockpit and (you would argue) taking the job of a GA pilot. What about the place she is not filling in a QF cockpit?? Where would your Skippers Metro F/O rather be. RHS of a Dash 8 or 747 (I suspect I know the answer to that one!!
Let's assume that, for whatever reason, our eager young tyro Metro F/O cannot or will not apply for QF. How long is his path blocked by the Cadet?? What about the rest of aviation outside of Skippers that continues to benefit from the increased Direct Entry intake while the cadets gain "real world" experience. He could go and grab a job with someone else while the movement's on or choose to wait it out at Skippers.
Things happen in this industry that change our preconceived ideas about where our careers are headed. The fact that the plan changes is not always a bad thing!!
There are opportunities that this "problem" creates, and it might not be a bad idea to stop slagging people off and start looking for them!!
Perhaps it is time to take a breath and have a calm and rational think about all of this?
Firstly, been there, done that (GA), for a LONG time.
Secondly, this cadet (and all the other cadets that QF have employed over the past 12 months or so) was expecting to be sitting in the back of a 747 as soon as they finished their course. That QF has now instituted a cadet placement program has some implications for GA pilots.
This cadet is currently filling a place in a GA cockpit and (you would argue) taking the job of a GA pilot. What about the place she is not filling in a QF cockpit?? Where would your Skippers Metro F/O rather be. RHS of a Dash 8 or 747 (I suspect I know the answer to that one!!
Let's assume that, for whatever reason, our eager young tyro Metro F/O cannot or will not apply for QF. How long is his path blocked by the Cadet?? What about the rest of aviation outside of Skippers that continues to benefit from the increased Direct Entry intake while the cadets gain "real world" experience. He could go and grab a job with someone else while the movement's on or choose to wait it out at Skippers.
Things happen in this industry that change our preconceived ideas about where our careers are headed. The fact that the plan changes is not always a bad thing!!
There are opportunities that this "problem" creates, and it might not be a bad idea to stop slagging people off and start looking for them!!
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Just to move off-track for a teensy moment.
Whilst we are debating who "deserves" or has "prior rights"
to a job, please consider this.
sydneyman
Please take this in the spirit in which it is offered and I assure you I am not singling you out.
I know/now/no (strike out that which is inapplicable) not whether/weather/wether (sotwii) you have aspirations to the big kids’ airlines or promotion within your existing outfit.
But I suspect that should you do, the taking of a remedial course/coarse (sotwii) in the English language would/wood (sotwii) improve your chances immeasurably, way beyond where they are now.
Whether/weather/wether (sotwii) we like it or not, I hear/here (sotwii)we are judged by/buy (sotwii) the way we communicate as much as by what or whom we know/now/no (sotwii).
Clear, concise, unambiguous communication is what keeps us all out of trouble in this industry and the world. It is also a clue to the level of organisation of our thought processes.
If we do not have the "words" to communicate concepts it is a barren conversation indeed.
I see hundreds of posts from young hopefuls complaining about this and that in regard to their/there (sotwii) lack of advancement.
Given the grammar and syntax I am not often surprised.
And I'm sure there will be someone out there who will find some fault in mine .
But you know/now/no (sotwii) what I mean.
Whilst we are debating who "deserves" or has "prior rights"
to a job, please consider this.sydneyman
Please take this in the spirit in which it is offered and I assure you I am not singling you out.
I know/now/no (strike out that which is inapplicable) not whether/weather/wether (sotwii) you have aspirations to the big kids’ airlines or promotion within your existing outfit.
But I suspect that should you do, the taking of a remedial course/coarse (sotwii) in the English language would/wood (sotwii) improve your chances immeasurably, way beyond where they are now.
Whether/weather/wether (sotwii) we like it or not, I hear/here (sotwii)we are judged by/buy (sotwii) the way we communicate as much as by what or whom we know/now/no (sotwii).
Clear, concise, unambiguous communication is what keeps us all out of trouble in this industry and the world. It is also a clue to the level of organisation of our thought processes.
If we do not have the "words" to communicate concepts it is a barren conversation indeed.
I see hundreds of posts from young hopefuls complaining about this and that in regard to their/there (sotwii) lack of advancement.
Given the grammar and syntax I am not often surprised.
And I'm sure there will be someone out there who will find some fault in mine .
But you know/now/no (sotwii) what I mean.