NAS 2C - Class D Airspace Changes
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Hey SM4Pirate. You should go and wash your mouth out with soap!
When was the last time you saw an AirServices manager actually supporting his/her/its controllers. Maybe until a job in Canberra is in the offing then its every man for himself and make sure you don't get in their way or you'll get stomped on.
There's your 200 ATC jobs, no outstation towers or managers to support them.
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mooney, yeah there's no pressurization altitude, but above 14000 you need O2 for pilots and pax, therefore pressurization seems to be the go.
capcom, what are you getting your knickers in a knot for? Procedural separation provides no guarantee that pilots are abiding by controllers instructions, but I think a guy in the tower could observe deviations. What does a map have to do with it? Have you seen a US sectional? It's got a tonne of info on it, maybe too much.
capcom, what are you getting your knickers in a knot for? Procedural separation provides no guarantee that pilots are abiding by controllers instructions, but I think a guy in the tower could observe deviations. What does a map have to do with it? Have you seen a US sectional? It's got a tonne of info on it, maybe too much.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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What? So procedural is no good because pilot's might not follow instructions? Good grief. Here I was thinking I needed to pass various forms of proficiency tests in order to hold a pilot's license.
Is it just me, or is 'Dumbing Down' taking over the world?
Is it just me, or is 'Dumbing Down' taking over the world?
Join Date: Aug 2001
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2b is bad enough, 2c is madness
druglord
Thankyou for your concern. In the spirit of transpacific courtesy and as a show of return goodwill I must ask:-
How is your flap setting ol' darling?
The ‘configuration’ and/or ‘angle of attack’ of said undergarments ain’t the cause of my discomfort! Have you read the previous posts?……… Dude, it ain’t difficult to follow!
True enough! How often do Oz Pilots stuff it up in a procedural environment? Not very often!. Outside ATC Visual range, if the pilot stuffs up, then ‘TCAS’ and ‘See and Avoid” (The secondary and last lines of defence) come into play. In short:
What we had previously in terminal airspace (Proc C over D) was:-
- Clearances and Procedural Separation/Segregation IFR/IFR and VFR (TCAS and ‘See and Avoid’ were emergency last lines of defence against the rare stuff up)
What we have now in terminal airspace (Proc E over D) is:-
- Clearances and Procedural Separation/Segregation IFR/IFR whilst VFR blast over/under and through climbing and descending IFR B100 (TCAS and ‘See and Avoid’ are the only line of defence ).
LESS EFFICIENT, LESS SAFE and for no cost or safety benefit!
Yep, visual separation/segregation/monitoring within 10-15nm with Bino’s in good VMC, yet another defence. Not the only one though! (See previous post)
There are many IFR aircraft in OZ without TCAS and many GA VFR aircraft with questionable Mode C Alt Encoders. Fact!
Lots!, Yep! and Yep! 
Down here, largely because of the lack of Radar and since “dickspace” was introduced, VFR have to basically guess which frequency is most appropriate to monitor for the IFR and VFR traffic that is going to mow them down.
VFR are actively discouraged from broadcasting their position information!
Maps are only as useful as the information contained therein. ****eloads of IFR stuff is 4/5ths of farkall use to a VFR pilot overflying a D zone at A055 in E if critical information is omitted!
Stupid and Dangerous Un-alerted See and best of luck attempting to avoid
I have taken the time to explain the problems AGAIN, are we reading from the same page yet?, or do I need to change the undergarment and become really wound up and nasty?
what are you getting your knickers in a knot for?
How is your flap setting ol' darling?
The ‘configuration’ and/or ‘angle of attack’ of said undergarments ain’t the cause of my discomfort! Have you read the previous posts?……… Dude, it ain’t difficult to follow!
Procedural separation provides no guarantee that pilots are abiding by controllers instructions,
What we had previously in terminal airspace (Proc C over D) was:-
- Clearances and Procedural Separation/Segregation IFR/IFR and VFR (TCAS and ‘See and Avoid’ were emergency last lines of defence against the rare stuff up)
What we have now in terminal airspace (Proc E over D) is:-
- Clearances and Procedural Separation/Segregation IFR/IFR whilst VFR blast over/under and through climbing and descending IFR B100 (TCAS and ‘See and Avoid’ are the only line of defence ).
LESS EFFICIENT, LESS SAFE and for no cost or safety benefit!
but I think a guy in the tower could observe deviations.
There are many IFR aircraft in OZ without TCAS and many GA VFR aircraft with questionable Mode C Alt Encoders. Fact!
What does a map have to do with it? Have you seen a US sectional? It's got a tonne of info on it, maybe too much.
Down here, largely because of the lack of Radar and since “dickspace” was introduced, VFR have to basically guess which frequency is most appropriate to monitor for the IFR and VFR traffic that is going to mow them down.
VFR are actively discouraged from broadcasting their position information!
Maps are only as useful as the information contained therein. ****eloads of IFR stuff is 4/5ths of farkall use to a VFR pilot overflying a D zone at A055 in E if critical information is omitted!
Stupid and Dangerous Un-alerted See and best of luck attempting to avoid
I have taken the time to explain the problems AGAIN, are we reading from the same page yet?, or do I need to change the undergarment and become really wound up and nasty?
Last edited by Capcom; 8th Mar 2004 at 23:55.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Oh goodie, another pro NAS drooling cretin needs the bleeding obvious explained to them in monosyllabic terms. Yawn...
NAS - conceived by fools
- implemented by sycophants
- appreciated by idiots everywhere.
NAS - conceived by fools
- implemented by sycophants
- appreciated by idiots everywhere.
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easy there ol' boy, my original arguement was that they outta reduce the controlled airspace to the 30nm and 10k and 2500 and 4nm, instead of having class C that goes to frikkin china. I'd say there'd be a few less VCA's of our VFR friends.
