NAS meeting today
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NAS meeting today
Just seen on channel ten news, that ATC and pilots are meeting today in melbourne.
TED LANG, from ATC says that the airspace is dangerous, that all the ATC's agree as do the pilots and that the reforms should NOT go ahead.
He also states that our current airspace is among the safest in the world and is the envy of many other countries.
Here's hoping common sense will prevail.
TED LANG, from ATC says that the airspace is dangerous, that all the ATC's agree as do the pilots and that the reforms should NOT go ahead.
He also states that our current airspace is among the safest in the world and is the envy of many other countries.
Here's hoping common sense will prevail.
Bottums Up
I took the opportunity yesterday (Sun 23/11), along with the Effo, to visit a regional Tower during a transit. We didn't have too much spare time.
After the intros, my first question to the friendly (procedural) ATCO was, "How do you feel about next Thursday"?
The ATCO's succinct response; "I'm sh!tting myself!"
I don't think he's Robinson Cruso!!
After the intros, my first question to the friendly (procedural) ATCO was, "How do you feel about next Thursday"?
The ATCO's succinct response; "I'm sh!tting myself!"
I don't think he's Robinson Cruso!!
0330 WST on area. A plum voice. Callsign not dissimilar to a small royal dog.
"Centre XXX123 position XX miles NW of perth...request IFR pickup."
Long pause from centre, then "Um, er...IFR pickup not available till the 27th. you are cleared to FL...."
etc.
"Centre XXX123 position XX miles NW of perth...request IFR pickup."
Long pause from centre, then "Um, er...IFR pickup not available till the 27th. you are cleared to FL...."
etc.
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MEETING RESULTS?
Has anyone heard any news from the NAS meeting in Melbourne today?
Watched the Channel 7 News this evening and not a word was mentioned - I guess that means that there are no newsworthy implementation backlashes?
I was hoping for more of a last minute fight!
Watched the Channel 7 News this evening and not a word was mentioned - I guess that means that there are no newsworthy implementation backlashes?
I was hoping for more of a last minute fight!
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Kaptin,
Robins comments were accurate and to the point, I was there today, and Robin had a lot more coherant argument than what was shown. Fortunately the media, 10 & 2 anyway picked up on the important bits.
AOPA still can't work through their own problems let alone work out airspace issues. Time to put your feet up Bill.
Robins comments were accurate and to the point, I was there today, and Robin had a lot more coherant argument than what was shown. Fortunately the media, 10 & 2 anyway picked up on the important bits.
AOPA still can't work through their own problems let alone work out airspace issues. Time to put your feet up Bill.
AOPA still can't work through their own problems let alone work out airspace issues. Time to put your feet up Bill.
as i understand it he no longer has authority to represent aopa on any matter
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Piper Arrow........would something more interesting be the following headlines:
" Glider takes out a Dash 8"
or
"Light aircraft causes 767 catastrophe"
I know they sound like "sensational" headlines but there are enough professionals worried about this badly thought out airspace, it could easily happen.
" Glider takes out a Dash 8"
or
"Light aircraft causes 767 catastrophe"
I know they sound like "sensational" headlines but there are enough professionals worried about this badly thought out airspace, it could easily happen.
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Change is hard for some people to accept. All will go ahead as planned on the 27th November and on the the 28th, the sun will rise again. 
Piper Arrow,
If you would care to reread your NAS publications I am sure you would not find it boring. I fly daily in the airspace that is being changed and am not confident that the system is going to look after me and provide me with the information that I need to keep my crew and 50+ passengers safe.
I only hope that if this insanity goes ahead we (ATC and Pilots) can keep this on a common sense level and give each other as much info as possible until we can get the government to listen.
A very unhappy Capt Stoobing.
If you would care to reread your NAS publications I am sure you would not find it boring. I fly daily in the airspace that is being changed and am not confident that the system is going to look after me and provide me with the information that I need to keep my crew and 50+ passengers safe.
I only hope that if this insanity goes ahead we (ATC and Pilots) can keep this on a common sense level and give each other as much info as possible until we can get the government to listen.
A very unhappy Capt Stoobing.
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Sadly I believe that last minute change will only only occur when the guardians of the shareholders' interest suddenly get the idea that intervention is necessary. All this media attention will surely put the frighteners into the heads of regional passengers - read reputation - read money - read also political mileage (loss of).
Airline execs and "other politicians' will be seen on TV in the next few days! There's our geat hope.
Nothing seen thus far from the scuttling one. Good representation by Robin on 9 Today this morning - you are my hero. We need to emphasise the flawed argument regardng suitability of US NAS and limited AUS Radar coverage. This alone shoots down the major agument purported to be in favor of US NAS. It is also easily understood and clear for the person-in-the street. (BTW that's the person who's safety is trusted to be in the hands of CASA and The Honourable........)
BTW are we ready for this - Pilot/ATC education/training? Charts, AIP/MATS amend. and DAP - are they all done?
NOT.
Airline execs and "other politicians' will be seen on TV in the next few days! There's our geat hope.
Nothing seen thus far from the scuttling one. Good representation by Robin on 9 Today this morning - you are my hero. We need to emphasise the flawed argument regardng suitability of US NAS and limited AUS Radar coverage. This alone shoots down the major agument purported to be in favor of US NAS. It is also easily understood and clear for the person-in-the street. (BTW that's the person who's safety is trusted to be in the hands of CASA and The Honourable........)
BTW are we ready for this - Pilot/ATC education/training? Charts, AIP/MATS amend. and DAP - are they all done?
NOT.
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Check out the ATSB site
What about all the incidents (Traffic infringments) reported on the ATSB web site that are airline related issues, and this is under this old system we now have? I think this present system is broke and needs fixing. 
Piper arrow,
You are right that the current system is not as good as it should be, but and a big BUT...........we need industry consultation to make a new system. In the preamble to the NAS publications I did not notice any airline reps present. I am not saying that private pilots should not be consulted but they are not the most regular users of the airspace. I will be using this airspace everyday and am not happy about my office being in this situation.
Capt Stoobing.
You are right that the current system is not as good as it should be, but and a big BUT...........we need industry consultation to make a new system. In the preamble to the NAS publications I did not notice any airline reps present. I am not saying that private pilots should not be consulted but they are not the most regular users of the airspace. I will be using this airspace everyday and am not happy about my office being in this situation.
Capt Stoobing.
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NAS
What planet are you guys from.
I think some of you should put your feet up and take up Golf.
It’s about time some of you stopped taking from the industry get off of your fat salary arses and help. If you are all so called experts (VOMIT) come up with a better idea. No one is saying that NAS is the best thing since sliced bread but at least it’s working towards it. One of the reasons that our airspace has problems today is because of regional demands if you had your own way GA aircraft we be on the ground 15mins before your arrival and remain there until 15mins after your departure. This is from the mouth of Mr. negative (Robin). Really he is so negative I class him as anti matter and he is so full of it, it would be enough to power the enterprise for the next ten years.
You guys have fracture our airspace system to cater purely for your fat arse the fact that its old does not work and sometimes dangerous must escape your peanut minds and you have the ordacity to criticise people that attempt to repair it. Whatever you lot are smoking you better stop and concentrate on flying.
From memory did a glider not almost hit a regional some time ago well lets see if we can link that to NAS now I am sure its possible.
I also fly almost every day I want to go home to see my wife and kids at the end of the day just as some of you do. 27th will make no difference to us I will still monitor the best frequency that will give me the best situational awareness and communicate when necessary.
Shame on civil air for the scare tactics use on the Australian traveling public regionals use CTAF's now and have done for some time. Your ignorance of private pilots abilities astounds me class E still needs to be endorsed in log books before it can be used by new pilots and old pilots should Know better.
BASICALLY put something back to the industry that helped you get where your are or p#ss off.
At least AOPA made a stance and had the guts to post it. Your own dear QANTAS supported it to the minister but did not have the guts to state this in public in fear of union backlash.
That’s your contribution to the industry how quaint! now go and cry on someone else’s shoulder.
I think some of you should put your feet up and take up Golf.
It’s about time some of you stopped taking from the industry get off of your fat salary arses and help. If you are all so called experts (VOMIT) come up with a better idea. No one is saying that NAS is the best thing since sliced bread but at least it’s working towards it. One of the reasons that our airspace has problems today is because of regional demands if you had your own way GA aircraft we be on the ground 15mins before your arrival and remain there until 15mins after your departure. This is from the mouth of Mr. negative (Robin). Really he is so negative I class him as anti matter and he is so full of it, it would be enough to power the enterprise for the next ten years.
You guys have fracture our airspace system to cater purely for your fat arse the fact that its old does not work and sometimes dangerous must escape your peanut minds and you have the ordacity to criticise people that attempt to repair it. Whatever you lot are smoking you better stop and concentrate on flying.
From memory did a glider not almost hit a regional some time ago well lets see if we can link that to NAS now I am sure its possible.
I also fly almost every day I want to go home to see my wife and kids at the end of the day just as some of you do. 27th will make no difference to us I will still monitor the best frequency that will give me the best situational awareness and communicate when necessary.
Shame on civil air for the scare tactics use on the Australian traveling public regionals use CTAF's now and have done for some time. Your ignorance of private pilots abilities astounds me class E still needs to be endorsed in log books before it can be used by new pilots and old pilots should Know better.
BASICALLY put something back to the industry that helped you get where your are or p#ss off.
At least AOPA made a stance and had the guts to post it. Your own dear QANTAS supported it to the minister but did not have the guts to state this in public in fear of union backlash.
That’s your contribution to the industry how quaint! now go and cry on someone else’s shoulder.
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2B1 - (you certainly are) I really hate to respond to the stuff you are obviously so angry about but really I have watched the industry reps and seen both sides argue this in the various forums. One side has much to gain, personally from their input and the other side is as close altruism as I have withnessed and are putting their careers and personal situation at risk. Guess which side supports which - you wouldn't be a private business person would you now? and I suggest that the fat cats are those supporting NAS. The altruists are representing passengers not your pocket.
I am one of those who enjoyed flying and operating in the "Old System" and will continue to support that system of In and Out of CTA albeit significantly modified to reduce the excesses. I am not one who says that everything that used to be was of no value. I don't believe that everything America has done or wants is best for Australia but I am not anti-American (just anti-Americanization and fiercly Australian) We had the best before Alphabet - what we have now is a mess that is getting more and more complicated and reducing safety - purely to pander to one or two individuals. I believe that people like you expect that your costs will be reduced however the reality is that no such gains will be realised. What exactly is the basis of your support for NAS?
I appreciate that safety is a nefarious thing and that resultant safety statistics may not support the end argument however it is risk we are talking about.
I recall a comparison being made to explain risk and statistics - What is the risk to planet Earth when bringing back stuff from another planet. If you only have one earth to lose any risk is unacceptable - are you capable of understanding my analogy?
I am one of those who enjoyed flying and operating in the "Old System" and will continue to support that system of In and Out of CTA albeit significantly modified to reduce the excesses. I am not one who says that everything that used to be was of no value. I don't believe that everything America has done or wants is best for Australia but I am not anti-American (just anti-Americanization and fiercly Australian) We had the best before Alphabet - what we have now is a mess that is getting more and more complicated and reducing safety - purely to pander to one or two individuals. I believe that people like you expect that your costs will be reduced however the reality is that no such gains will be realised. What exactly is the basis of your support for NAS?
I appreciate that safety is a nefarious thing and that resultant safety statistics may not support the end argument however it is risk we are talking about.
I recall a comparison being made to explain risk and statistics - What is the risk to planet Earth when bringing back stuff from another planet. If you only have one earth to lose any risk is unacceptable - are you capable of understanding my analogy?
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Which frequency will you monitor exactly 2b1? How will you know if it is the same frequency that the big boys are broadcasting on?
"monitoring the most appropriate frequency" is probably the most dangerous thing about this whole silly adventure.
"monitoring the most appropriate frequency" is probably the most dangerous thing about this whole silly adventure.
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NAS
WHATWASTHAT UMMMM perhaps the area frequency on the free ERC?
That's really what I personally think would be appropriate frequency so what has exactlly changed re that issue on the 27th?. Risk or reluctance to change? my guess the later. KK Im just a pilot have been flying for 24 years, I stand by my post if you think you can do better come up with a suggestion.
Is it not ironic that every attempt of reform has had this reaction some of these reforms have been led by x jet jocks and experts within the industry in there own right. Tell me are they all wrong and your correct?
Just because you work daily in our skies does not make you an authority on safety lets face it most of you are acting on second hand information or if first hand its from your own prospective.
That's really what I personally think would be appropriate frequency so what has exactlly changed re that issue on the 27th?. Risk or reluctance to change? my guess the later. KK Im just a pilot have been flying for 24 years, I stand by my post if you think you can do better come up with a suggestion.
Is it not ironic that every attempt of reform has had this reaction some of these reforms have been led by x jet jocks and experts within the industry in there own right. Tell me are they all wrong and your correct?
Just because you work daily in our skies does not make you an authority on safety lets face it most of you are acting on second hand information or if first hand its from your own prospective.