Lights On? Are they kidding?

[5 Left & Right]

Ok, so we should all fly around with our lights on now so's we dont run into each other.

Oh yeh good one, you're joking right?

Please tell me you are joking............

[Deaf]

IIRC lights have actually been used as camoflage for concealing/breaking up the dark image of an a/c against the light sky (during the day obviously).

[gaunty]

5 Left & Right

Your comment is a very good demonsatration of why we have such a difficult job of education and cultural change.

I would really be very interested in learning why you think "lights on" is such a very bad idea, beyond having to change the odd light bulb every now and then.

It is hardly a new idea and it is very well established that birds can see lights better than they can objects, perhaps our betters have worked out that birdbrain mode works well with pilots.

[Continental-520]

I directed by a Chief Pilot of mine once not to use landing lights on a 5nm final straight in within an MBZ cause "it wears out the globes, and they're bloody expensive to change".

So, since then, I've only ever been using them when there's other traffic in the same MBZ.

Can't please everyone.


520.

[splatgothebugs]

See and be seen,

The day you leave the lx off because nobody is inside the MBZ is the day some NORDO a/c will come very close to you.

Takes all of a second to turn them on and if they burn out inside 6 months, not 12 months to bad for the operator.

[Chimbu chuckles]

My Landing lights are always on in my Bonanza when within say 5nm of the desto/departure point, or anytime that seems to warrant it from a good airmanship pov...like transiting Southport MBZ.

In a jet we always have the landing lights on below 10000'...only 3-4 minutes even when departing.

What I find a little irksome is the idea that to prop up our disfunctional new system we are now expected to have landing lights on essentially all the time.

Could it be that See and Avoid is not all it's cracked up to be.

And if two aircraft come together with lights blazing I suppose they'll recommend I paint my aircraft dayglo orange next

Chuck.

[pullock]

I tend to agree with Chuck, perhaps the newly found need for operation of landing lights is symptomatic of a problem with the system.

For what it's worth, the operator who said that using landing lights butns them out too fast may seem a bit tightarsed, but the fact is that they are not designed for continuous inflight operation, and will therefore not last very long at all if used all the time. Even when they are used within their design spec, they still don't last very well.

Methinks someone has shares in a light bulb company

[tobzalp]

seeing as the government is going to pay for ADSB in every single aircraft, surely they will pay to replace the bulbs as well.

[1279shp]

At flying school many moons ago, it was "policy" NOT to use landing lights at any time during daylight hours. Student's heavy landings or grass ops tended to caused them to blow fairly regularly. It was a cost cutting measure as being complete "sealed beam" they aren't cheap.

Today though, landing lights are on for take-off and landing.
Usually switched off at 'BUMPF' checks, on again once power is pulled prior to turning base.

Alongside this though I've noticed more and more a/c have wingtip/tail strobes too. So it is very much a case of see and be seen.

Being so visible it makes me wonder if all training a/c shudn't be painted black too?!

[gaunty]

I'm still waiting to hear why it is such a bad idea, given that we are encouraged to have the headlights in our cars on in daylight in bad viz or the country.

pullock

but the fact is that they are not designed for continuous inflight operation, and will therefore not last very long at all if used all the time. Even when they are used within their design spec, they still don't last very well

is that a fact or a personal prejudice. It is a fact that the number of cycles on and off is more damaging than otherwise.

tobzalp
You do your argument no favours.

[gissmonkey]

CX use em for ALL climb and descent, be it 37000' or 1000'.

[Perpetual_Hold_File]

What about those aircraft that have retractable landing lights?

Often they can't come out until slow enough which is often on base or final.

[VH-ABC]

I'm fairly sure that the human eye/brain combo picks up changes in light source (ie flickering/flashing) better than a constant light, so what's wrong with the rotating beacon?

[hombre_007]

Definately agree with ABC........and whats wrong with the nav lights??????????

[cjam]

I guess everyones eyes must be different then 'cause when I am trying to rendezvous with another a/c up high during daylight it is heaps easier for me to find them with the landing light on. They can have strobes and anti-cols going and I know the general area they are in and as soon as they switch on the landing light BANG...there they are (assuming the right direction of course.)

[Willie Nelson]

I think the whole lights on thing is a little better than asking your passengers to keep a look out for aircraft (latest flight safety) if I got on a boat and the captain asked me to keep my eyes out for other boats, rocks or icebergs I would politley step straight off that very boat. A bus driver doesn't ask you to keep your eyes out for small children and stray dogs.

There may be a lot of people that seem to be happy with asking their passengers to look out for other aircraft and I accept that it would improve safety, but I will draw the line just before that point and allow my passengers to relax during their flight.

Willie

[Xplicit]

You know how the cops are asking us to drive around the streets with our lights on ... what a crap idea. What next.... driving around with our horns on??

And we are all pilots here right...? If you can see a beacon, or a nav light, or a landing light before you can see the aeroplane... should you really be flying??
And if you are talking light's on (landing light and others) at night, then yeah go for it... but during the day.,... you can't be serious??!!??!!

[squire]

Perhaps with the use of an electrically conductive paint system we can illuminate the entire aircraft. This could further be used to sell advertising space on the aircraft thus generating enough revenue to pay for the expensive bulbs.

[triadic]

Lights

Although given a slight mention to date, the issue of using lights for long periods of time may actually cause damage to your electrical system.

Every aircraft is designed with the use of electrical items like lights designated for various periods of time and perhaps in conjunction with (or not with) other electrical services.

During the design stage of all aircraft an electrical load analysis is conducted in order to ascertain if any limits need be placed on the use of various electrical services.

The use of lights in many light aircraft was possibly not considered or perhaps designed to be used continuously. This does not apply in transport category aircraft that have been using lights on climb and descent and on two-way air routes for many years and of course they have more electrical grunt!

I would suggest that many operators and pilots although supporting the use of lights (by day) for long periods of time have little knowledge if this is or is not likely to cause temporary or long term damage to their aircrafts electrical system.

In the light (!) of this, it would be wise to check if there are any limits on the use of lights and even wiser to discuss these issues including the load analysis data with your engineer. Globes are not the issue.

In the meantime I would be cautious in the long term use of landing lights.

"no known traffic"

[ravan]

Just my two bobs worth -- Read recently of the findings from a study by the Canadian Transport people where they ran a trial of getting car drivers to drive with their lights on at all times.

Their conclusion, based on the statistics they gathered, was that accident rates were not significantly reduced by the practice.

Is it appropriate then to use the "lights on for cars" argument to draw comparisons with flying?