ATC Query
 

Hi all,
I have a question for any radar controllers who may be scrolling by!

scenario:

you’re cruising over Europe and ATC tell you to route (for example) direct ADEMI and then ADIBA.
(Both wpts in the filed fplan just some apt’s between the two)

you are then subsequently handed over to the next sector, and you go to check-in… usually you’d check in with the FL and TO wpt, however in the above scenario do I need to mention the cleared waypoint after ADEMI (ADIBA) as this is different to my filed f-plan, or is this coordinated between the two sectors prior to being cleared regardless so they’ll be aware anyway?

I appreciate this might not be the best example as both ADEMI and ADIBA are in German airspace, however point still stands,


Thanks!

Not ATC. But as far as I’m aware, if you get given “direct to X, then to Y”, where Y is in another another FIR, that would had to have been coordinated

That would be my understanding, based on my experience - which ended 17 years ago; so things might have changed !

I stopped controlling 20+ years ago but back then it was expected that anything related to the flight that would not be known by the next sector/unit would normally be coordinated - if it wasn’t you’d tell the pilot to report it on first contact. Watching current practitioners more recently, it seems like this is not so normal now. Chatting, I asked whether it was because there wasn’t time when it was busy, but no, just not done. That said, modern radar/FDMS transfer much of this information in the background if it is entered into the system.

If you're doing anything other than flying your flight plan I would say so on check in.

I believe, and I'm sure an ATCist will correct me if I'm wrong, but 'contact' means check in with your details and the only time you don't need to give the full spiel just the FL is when you're on the flight plan.

active ATCO here. If you have been given a DCT and then next WPT, it is almost certainly coordinated and most likely even requested by succeeding sector. In this case, when you call in the next sector, you just need to report to which WPT you are flying.

In London ACC between one sector and the next the DCTs will be known as the kit will be updated from our inputs. These are sometimes standard DCTs so therefore don't need coordinating and other times they'll be done on a one off basis so will be done verbally. I will give two DCT fixes if I need to, most though are far enough to only need one. Cross border DCTs work the same, we have pre coordinated DCTs that we can send to, especially with Maastricht, and other times we coordinate verbally. Difference is our inputs don't get transferred to the next ACC so they won't know exactly where you are going until you tell them. I'd never give two DCT fixes cross border as I have no idea how it effects the next ACC. I expect an aircraft on first contact to tell me which point they are routing to, it enables me to ensure you're doing what I expect and I can then issue further routing to check we both have the same information for which route you are flying. Until we get some sort of download from the aircraft so we can check then we'll have to keep doing it.

I guess to summarise,

- DCTs can be requested by the next sector,
- some blanket agreements exist between London sectors and the continent (eg, all DCTs, but stay south of a particular point, eg SPY)
- some DCTs may be given for conflict resolution, some for environmental reasons when appropriate.


All will be coordinated with the next sector, either by blanket agreement, or individually.

So why mention any waypoint to begin with, if it’s all coordinated anyway? Just curious about the logic of handovers and pilot reports as it does seem to vary a bit between FIR’s and control zones. In Amsterdam radar and Schiphol app it’s callsign only for example on check in (ignored by quite a few pilots, even when the ATIS specifically mentions ‘call sign only on first contact’ for the last 20 years, but I digress;))

First point is enough. If we want to know more, we ask.