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-   -   Initial Call transiting Class D (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/607911-initial-call-transiting-class-d.html)

covec 17th April 2018 19:45

Initial Call transiting Class D
 
Good evening.

I've just returned back to FI(A) work after a 9 year break.

Looking at CAP413, what in practical terms would a busy ATCO really prefer from a light aircraft wishing to transit their Class D airspace VFR? (Other than 180, please!)

C/S
Squawking
Request Zone Transit

...then Position/Time & FL/Alt/Hgt, ETA boundary, Departure & Destination, Service desired.

Would that be enough?

Thank you for your time.

kcockayne 17th April 2018 20:01

Sounds all right to me.

Cazalet33 17th April 2018 20:41

Might be helpful to state your preferred route.

Eg in Edinburgh zone: Kelty - Bridges - Polmont.

Red Four 17th April 2018 21:13

Also say if you're VFR or IFR.

Cleared For A Coffee 17th April 2018 23:20

Radar, GABCD requesting traffic service, zone transit.

That gives me enough info to know what squawk to allocate to you. Once allocated a squawk you can then pass your details including routing, IFR/VFR etc.

chevvron 18th April 2018 00:01

'Service desired' is superfluous; if you're cleared through you'll be told 'radar control' when you enter.

Cleared For A Coffee 18th April 2018 04:18


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 10122058)
'Service desired' is superfluous; if you're cleared through you'll be told 'radar control' when you enter.

How is it superfluous? He’s going to want a service outside controlled airspace as well before he gets a clearance to enter.

At one of the units I provide radar for, there is no requirement to allocate a discreet squawk to transit aircraft under certain circumstances. So if I have a basic service outside which requires a zone transit I may allocate that aircraft my conspicuity squawk (depending on the traffic situation and circumstances of the transit).

However, if that same aircraft is wanting a traffic service outside and a zone transit, I will issue a discreet squawk.

So again, requesting a zone transit and informing me what service you require outside is my preference, especially when busy. It most certainly is not superfluous.

Packer27L 18th April 2018 11:13

“Bigtown Radar, GABCD, request traffic service and (VFR/IFR) zone transit” would be music to my ears. Then I could manage the RT load by asking your full details, requested route, issuing a squawk, clearance, and any further info needed, at an appropriate time to fit in around other transmissions.

My only other request would be please, please don’t broadcast your life story on first contact!

good egg 18th April 2018 16:50

A variety of responses, from various controllers who aim to maintain safety in a number of control zones.
If you’re going to be transiting a particular control zone a lot I’d recommend either visiting the tower or picking up the phone to them for a chat. For instance, it’s good to know IFR traffic patterns and usual altitudes for each runway in use, practical altitudes for your transits, and to see (if you have the opportunity) what it looks like from the controller’s perspective.
It’s good for controllers too, to get a better understanding of what your requirements are.

FWIW on a first call a direction of transit is useful to me e.g. request a north-south transit via XXX. Any others find this useful?

chevvron 18th April 2018 17:46


Originally Posted by Cleared For A Coffee (Post 10122200)
How is it superfluous? He’s going to want a service outside controlled airspace as well before he gets a clearance to enter.

Not always and not all 'Zone' controllers are prepared to provide ATSOCAs as well as their primary task.

2 sheds 18th April 2018 17:48


However, I would agree that the idea that an aircraft will automatically get a radar control service is misplaced.
What other service would the aircraft receive when in controlled airspace? It does not refer specifically to separation.

2 s

2 sheds 18th April 2018 17:52


Not always and not all 'Zone' controllers are prepared to provide ATSOCAs as well as their primary task.
In which case, "Basic Service" would be specified but the pilot should still make an appropriate request. By the way, the term ATSOCAS went out with the ark - despite the fact that Editor CAP413 does not realise that! ;-)

2 s

coolbeans 18th April 2018 19:44


Originally Posted by LookingForAJob (Post 10122993)
Well, back in my day it could have be a procedural clearance. You know......'cleared to transit from X to Y, not above 3000ft, VFR'.

Maybe these days fewer controllers are able to do this for some reason, or maybe there is too much traffic in some places for this to be a practical proposition, or maybe there is a tendency to over-control. Some of this is tongue-in-cheek, but not all of it. ;)


That's a vfr clearance, the aircraft would still be under a radar control service (or an approach control service if in CAS from a non radar unit)

covec 18th April 2018 20:54

Packer 27L.

I like that.

Thank you all.

Oh. The Class D in question is Aberdeen.

coolbeans 18th April 2018 21:43


Originally Posted by LookingForAJob (Post 10123097)
I think you make my point - it does not have to be radar control, and it's not related to the flight rules. It might possibly be an aerodrome control service also, although I'm not sure if the current rules would permit it. Or even a flight information service - and I mean the ICAO sort, not the UK's bastardised system that I think is still in the books, if the appropriate coordination and delegation is done.

Yeah I see what your saying now, I was thrown by you saying procedural clearanc, then giving a vfr clearance, which i wouldn't give as an example of a procedural clearance, I'd just call it a clearance

Your saying it's not guaranteed to be RCS on entering CAS? If so I agree it's whatever Control service the ATCO can provide be it Approach or Radar.

Further to chevrons statement above, what controllers don't provide services to traffic joining their zone? How do they handle the traffic before it enters controlled airspace?

Transitsmakemyday 20th April 2018 22:39

Only thing I’d add to all the above is please keep it brief and think about what you’re saying before you say it! Around London especially, it’s not unusual to have several jets on headings that will shortly take them outside.

Oh, and if we say ‘Identified’, we know where you are. Don’t worry about telling us again!


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