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-   -   ATC speed after approach clearance (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/489043-atc-speed-after-approach-clearance.html)

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 29th June 2012 08:36

<<With reduced separation on approach, it seems this needs to be sorted out...good question.>>

If tight spacing is employed it must be radar controlled. In such situations you fly the speeds given by the radar controller. If you are unable to accept them you must give warning in advance of final approach. I worked as a Heathrow Radar controller for 31 years and I could count on one hand the number of times a pilot told me he couldn't fly the speed I had given, usually due a weight problem.

FlightPathOBN 29th June 2012 17:23

Watching Heathrow aircraft approach queues, they do an amazing job, its nerve wracking just to watch, let alone what it takes to keep everyone lined up.

Some of the recat models, and matrix models use a combination of radar sep and nm for the heavies, especially with pair-wise models. One of these days, they will get ATC involved in some of the crazy scenarios they have dreamed up, ie 64x64 matrix?!?!

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 29th June 2012 17:42

<<let alone what it takes to keep everyone lined up.>>

ILS

Denti 29th June 2012 17:54


Isnt the aircraft still bound by their respective CAT speed?
Interesting question again. Lets check the 737.


[737-700/800]
The airplane is classified as a Medium Type Category.
The airplane is certified as Approach Category "C".
Thats what out manual says, however for the -800 Vref for flaps 30 is quite often higher than 140kts, even flaps 40 can be close to or over 140kts. It is still category C...

Short Approach? 30th June 2012 06:03

Eurocontrol have found it necessary to issue the following with regards to speed control vs range to touchdown.

SKYbrary - Unstabilised Approach: Inappropriate ATC Speed Instructions

That must mean that, ATCOs not understanding basic aircraft performance, is a common and danger triggering fact.

The problem could be that the ATC-SIM will accept almost any speeds given at any point. I have seen trainees use complete rubbish speeds fresh out of the college.

WetFeet 30th June 2012 08:33

That link won't open for me. However, when I had trainees on Tower, Approach and Approach Radar it was an integral part of their training that they gained an appreciation of the performance characteristics of the types of aircraft they were likely to encounter. It was the same with all OJTI's I worked with, as well as when I was a trainee myself all those years ago. If they didn't have that appreciation, they didn't validate.

RustyNail 30th June 2012 10:59

Well.......
 
Canada ATC Manual of Operations:

554.8 Advise an aircraft to resume normal speed when application of a speed adjustment is no longer necessary, except when the aircraft has been cleared for an approach (N)

(N) Note 2:
An approach clearance supersedes a speed adjustment request, and aircraft are expected to make their own speed adjustments to complete the approach. If you require aircraft to adjust speed while on approach, restate the request.


:ok:


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