lol @ "Deep Throat"

is it really ATC recruiting you are into? ;)

Legal i think that tells us a little more about you (and your viewing interests) than me ;)

yours

W Mark Felt :)

the rumour man himself

Gisajob,
I think employers are going for the cheapest option these days. So all the single-rated young folks fresh out of college, well, they're valuable, worth keeping, - whatever the cost. Young staff are also important to an organisation's glamourous image. and in this age of 'brand-values', image is everything. See Simon Cowell for details.
This missing, "current crop", are Lo-Co ATCOs, if you like, AND, 'malleable' too, easily converted to modern management's way of thinking.
Anyone with experience, say over 45, and top of the pay-scale, is considered a nuisance. and less receptive to modern 'management methodologies'.
Might be a few experienced folk coming into the marketplace shortly.
Keep a sharp look-out.

Were you giving me a Basic Service around Norwich today because the ATCO told me those very words.

As if I weren't going to be keeping a sharp lookout flying in Class G!:sad:

Andy,
sadly, not me. I picked up the phrase from a greatly-respected approach-radar mentor 'oop north' many years ago. At the time I was a current PPL, (courtesy of NATS), and it served me well, both in the air and 'on the scope'.
Safe flying, as always, and don't ever be afraid :-
a) to turn back,
b) to tell someone on the ground if it's all going pear-shaped.
c) to visit ATC for a chat.

Validation rate in area is around 50% and aerodrome/app around 90%

You are confusing passing the rating with validation (which is at a unit/sector)..

Aerodrome/Approach is slightly lower than you suggest, but definitely higher than area. ADI/APS is about 80%.

As for validation %, again that is around 80% on first attempt, though some do fair better at a second unit.

Is this the same as the Unit Training Plan (UTP)?

Do people get second units these days?

Andy,
The UVC is an integral part of the UTP. It is, (typically), about a 4 to 8 week course, usually conducted an the unit's simulator. This element has to be passed before training on live traffic can begin.

Well that's very kind of you. :hmm::rolleyes::ugh:

Do you actually have full SRG Approval to provide an ATC Service at Dunsfold yet? Do tell.

There are plenty of ATCOs available who could fill the job spec', it's probably more of a case that with your attitude, no one wants to work for you.:rolleyes:

Gisajob,

Dunsfold salary in the high 30's? Doesn't sound as though that will get much in the way of accomodation in that neck of the woods. Surrey stockbroker belt and all that. Maybe you could park a caravan on the airfield for them to live in. :E

What sort of traffic are Dunsfold expecting? Guys with ADC or APP will be wanting to get experience to further their career. If they arrive and find nothing to cut their teeth on they'll soon be off somewhere busier, and you'll have a big problem with staff turnover.

I think 'Gisajob' would do well to find two or three very experienced and flexible retirees to cover movement demand at Dunsfold. I just happen to know at least three (whose full time 'careers' are over and are settled down not too far away) who might just be interested in a a day or two a week to clutch at professional straws and earn some dosh to spend on the grand-children..... ;)

WD, if you are reading this, feel free to PM me...

Constructive Help
 

Thanks Talkdownman for your constructive help.

I agree that in this phase of the re-introduction of licenced ATC Services at Dunsfold, retired experienced ATCOs are in many ways a good flexible solution. Can you pm me with details of your colleagues who would be interested.

As the airport develops we will need more full time permanent staff but until then your solution works.

Thank you for being constructive. Thanks also to all the other contributors for salary information.

I understand that this.thread is about Dunsfold however, more generally I wonder if a perceived 'shortage' of ATCOs in the wider community is because of NATS restricting the courses provided to trainees?

Things changed about 8 years ago now, has it taken that long for the effects to be noticed?

As per the above post.

When NATS changed the policy from making everyone do an aerodrome course before proceeding onto an approach or area radar course, there was no longer trainee ATCO's leaving the NATS system after maybe failing one of the radar courses or failing to validate at unit.

In the past non NATS units could be sure on receiving a number of CV's per annum from these trainees looking for employment, there was almost a surplus.

With the adoption of the the common core basic course, then streaming to tower for London units, tower/approach for others or area the people who tripped up in the system often left with nothing to offer other units & probably left air traffic all together.

Often these pre-basic course trainees who did leave with a tower ticket took anything they could get, got further training, but often a few years down the line moved to either a perceived bigger/better unit, or closer to thier home town. This in turn meant there was always movement within the market place.

Non-NATS units then became much more proactive at training from within thier own ranks i.e. ATSA's who prodiminatly were local based and therefore much more likely to remain loyal to the unit. With all the extra money required to fund the extra training, the hope of getting this needs no explanation.

This in turn means more stagnation within the market place as people are less likely to move unless the T&C's are very attractive with relocation allowances, rent paid for X amount of mouths to help settle & find property to buy, significant salary increase etc etc but in the present climate it's harder for units to justify these perks when being told to save money.

Viscous circle that may take some time to clear.

Yep, it's a sticky situation...

Tell me about it!!

I'm feeling a little under employed given my ratings! Not stacking shelves or driving taxis ... but def under employed!