Totally with you here, highly amusing to read the arguments from ignorance. I particularly enjoy comments along the lines "There are groups in the CTC having meetings and I don't know what they do but they're no doubt just wasting time because they're all dross over there." The implication being that because the poster doesn't know what someone else does that person is a waster (or dross), showing off the posters ignorance :}

Just as an aside on the perceptions that most of the CTC staff sit around in Starbucks drinking coffee all day. NATS CTC accomodates a large number of staff (not all of whoms primary task require them to be there, its just the central place now everywhere else has closed) and Starbucks is relatively small so it will look busy when people have their breaks (shock horror! Staff who are not mandated to have breaks also have them! Eekkk!)
Additionally all of the offices (apart from the senior executives) are open plan. Its disruptive to other staff who are working at their desks if you decide to have a meeting of only 1 or 2 people at your desk. So Starbucks and the foyer area is a very good place to have these small meetings.

Its apparent from comments in this thread how little the operational staff are aware of the pressure to reduce staff in the non operational areas is. From posts being gapped to retirees not being replaced to contractors being let go to ATCO staff being squeezed to go back into Ops and so it goes on. But there is no reduction on the demand for resources to deliver everything thats expected.

BD

p.s. There are 'support' grades within the ATSA grading as well, ATC Technical & Support (T&S) ;)

Me Me Me Me

I agree entirelythat some people (mainly ATCOs) have not got a clue how much the majority of support staff do for the company and for the actual ATCOs. Doesn't mean that a proper 'time and motion' (in old money) study would not go amiss to make the company leaner though.

And if you are going to have a pop back at those detractors, at least do it with a proper argument...The AAVAs come about because the OPs room needs a certain number of ATCOs sitting at certain positions at certain times of the day. AAVAs are used to make up the shortfall - AAVAs would be brought in regardless of whether office workers improved productivity or not!!

In fact AAVAs are actually preferred by the company to a certain degree because it is cheaper for management to use them than to employ the correct amount of ATCOs - AAVA's are more flexible as you can pick and choose which validation you want to call in, and they are non pensionable. AAVAs actually save the company money!

Could this NATS which employs hundreds of people to sit around drinking coffee all day really be the same company that exploits poor hard working ATCOs at every opportunity to make huge profits ? The fact is that most of those at CTC outside of a very small area in C block have been through time and motion study after time and motion study. Every year every job has to be justified and every year a further percentage saving has to be made.

Fortunately most of us at CTC have a good sense of humour. We certainly had a chuckle at the irony of controllers complaining about how hard they work on this thread whilst in another thread others were passing comment on the accomodation provided for them to sleep during their normal working hours.

I don't think that the nocturnal activity they're put to could be described as sleeping ;) But on a serious note the facility has been provided to enhance safety.

BD

ZOOKER,

No, non-pensionable AAVAs. There is a subtle but significant difference which you would be aware of if you actually worked for the company.

eglynt,
Just curious.How many people work at CTC total.
and
of the ATCOs that work there,what pay Band are they on.

I'm so happy that us ATCOs can provide you with a laugh at our own expense. You need a reality check, a comment like just goes to show how far exactly your head is up your a***. If you feel so hard done by, why don't you get yourself down to the OPs room (if you can find it that is) for a few night shifts, because there is nothing "normal" about working at 3am . Most ATCOs would happily swap a night shift for a day spent at CTC drinking Starbucks, slagging us off on NATSnet and commenting on picture of the day.

More CTC staff bating.... how original :rolleyes: - I don't work at the CTC - I am operational at Swanwick (before someone accuses me of either) - but please CTC staff - don't feed the trolls

Hear troll troll troll! I got some food for ya! :}
I'm sure that many CTC based staff would enjoy being off during the day, working the night and then having a sleep day. With, of course, suitable monetary recompense for the unsocial hours and not forgetting some shut eye during the night in Hotel Swanwick to ensure we're bright eyed and bushy tailed ;)
I worked shifts for 25 years before becoming a day worker so I do have a little experience of working nights. Personally I'd much rather work shifts but my job doesn't require it, there are very few jobs for CTC based staff that require 24/7 working. Strangely the requirement tends to be at the operational units.

BD

I attended the pensions brefings at CTC yesterday, and now having had all of the evidence presented before me, I will be voting YES - I will also use every opportunity to convince my colleagues to vote YES.

I have witnessed some of the most militant unionistas that have upset me over years now telling me that they want to protect the Ts&Cs they have and their pensions, and agreeing this deal is what they would do given the reality of pensions management and the cost of our scheme.

People who vote NO are gambling with my pension and my future career as well as their own. There is no plan B, the union have no better alternatives and NATS will go ahead with whatever they want if a NO ballot results - but the deal would be worse than what is proposed. Forget the politics, forget the CEO, forget rediculous ideas like nationalisation - the numbers are clear. I want an excellent pension and I still will have one under the proposal.

VOTE YES!

Actually BD I thought your comment about the Hotel Swanwick being constructed to enhance safety was a well-made, valid and succinct point...for once:}

But if you don't want a reaction then indeed, don't feed the trolls, especially with stuff like that. Don't hate the player, hate the game...

Utter rubbish....people who vote YES are selling this company down the river by dividing the workforce, preparing NSL for a sell-off and basically setting up open season for an attack on our T & Cs. I will be voting NO and will be telling everybody I know to vote NO.

clearly some people prefer to bury their heads in the sand and ignore blatant facts

Yes...that'd be you then.

Radarspod
 

If you joined NATS after summer 2001, then you will not have an excellent pension; within a matter of a few years you will be transferred to the new scheme. If you will be retiring in more than 10-15 years then you probably will not have an excellent pension, because history shows that closing schemes to new employees means the end of final salary pension schemes within that period of time. If you are going to retire within the next 10 years, and you don't mind shafting others, then go ahead and vote yes. Oh, and don't think the Trust of Promise will save your pension; there are enough get out clauses in that to make it worthless.

I did join NATS before 2001 but I also have a long way to go, so I am considering this for the long term. Do I believe that NATS will still be operating the existing DB scheme when I retire - probably not. NATS is going to try and cut the cost of our scheme in the long run REGARDLESS of what happens now. What I do know is that right now the scheme is in the s**t and if allowed to continue, either I will have no job, no pension or a job with much crappier Ts & Cs than what is on the table now. The company didn't tell me this, nor the union - I have come to the conclusion myself from the evidence put forward.

Agreeing this proposal doesn't shaft my NSL colleagues either - it makes the pension liability for potential NSLs bidders as bloody huge and unnattractive as it is now.

Go to the management briefings then go to the NTUS briefing and make your views heard. Anyone shouting "NO" on this forum who is a union member and has not used their opportunity to grill the union officials is quite frankily a fool, and is voting NO for the wrong reasons. If you attend your NTUS briefing and are still not convinced, then by all means vote as you see fit.

We can argue all day about the pro's and con's of the proposed deal - but it is the best we are going to get. This is my view, I'm not going to apologise for it - I want to protect my future and agreeing this deal is in my opinion the only option (doesn't mean i like it!) and convincing all around me to protect my future is what I am going to do.

I'm not going to respond to any more posts on what I have written now, as I have heard it all before and nobody in the 1000+ posts on this forum have said anything new that is going to fix everything so that we don't have to make this choice.

RS

Its a shame this forum is degenerating into a slagging match of "them" and "us" proportions........lets not forget we all work for towards the same aim and that is to move traffic in an efficient and safe manner....that said there are a few on here that appear to be full of their own self importance and cannot see past the work of others, mainly because they have their heads up their rectums!!!............I have spent 30 years so far with the company and have and still do enjoy every minute of it............one thing for sure after 30 years no bugger is going to rip me off and I will do anything possible to protect my own and my future work mates terms of condition and pension.....it is my money, I have worked hard for it so Mr Barron, keep your little mitts off it!!!!

BDiONU,
with reference: I'm sure that many CTC based staff would enjoy being off during the day, working the night and then having a sleep day. With, of course, suitable monetary recompense for the unsocial hours and not forgetting some shut eye during the night in Hotel Swanwick to ensure we're bright eyed and bushy tailed

so you think office staff should be paid and work the same hours as ops staff???
if i could get paid the same as i do now and not have the responsibility of ACTUAL controlling, then i may entertain that. next you will be telling us that airline check in staff should be paid the same as flight deck???
Again, im not saying office staff are dross, we need them in buckets to keep the cogs turning, I emplore you to sit up all night and try not to weld 2 planes together. if people in the company see what an ATCO makes, its no secret, then come and give it a go.... plenty do.
The fact of the matter is, as ops staff we have the indutrial strength and if the union wont get a spine over this, i for one will be giving up my 2nd sector and all the trimmings i do for free and do my contracted sector only. its a shame, but if my pension is going to be degraded... so is my commitment to the company.
i love my job, but my faith for the company has gone.
vote no.