Ryanair v ATC again!!
 

Found this on Ryanair's website today;

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31.07.08
UK ATC Staff Shortages and Equipment Failures Again Cause Serious Delays



Today (31 July) UK Air Traffic Control equipment failure is causing widespread and serious delays to passengers across the UK. Last week, over 13,000 Ryanair passengers and 87 Ryanair flights were delayed by UK Air Traffic Control (NATS). Since March of this year, air traffic control delays caused by NATS staff shortages have increased by more than 200%.

Every year the same sorry pattern is repeated - NATS fails to prepare for the busy Summer, following a quieter Winter. The resulting staff shortages and service failures cause long delays to millions of UK passengers every Summer.

NATS is the second most expensive ATC provider in Europe and one of the worst performers. The CAA regulator, which failed so spectacularly in their regulation of London airports, can help to redeem itself by forcing NATS to deliver a decent service or recommend that they lose their monopoly right to abuse and overcharge UK passengers.

Speaking today David O’Brien, Ryanair’s Director of Flight & Ground Operations said:

“Ryanair trains over 400 Boeing 737-800 next generation pilots every year for deployment across Europe. Meanwhile the NATS monopoly fails to produce even the small number of Air Traffic Controllers required each year in the UK causing continuing delays to millions of passengers year after year.

“NATS first promised to eliminate staff shortages and improve services over five years ago, when they set about hoodwinking the CAA into relaxing their monopoly licence conditions. The same problems remain and millions of passengers must endure unnecessary ATC delays.

“It is time for the CAA to fix NATS or have them replaced”.



I think a few flights will be going the long way round again this afternoon!

Ryanair vs NATS
 

So, just out of interest, all you ryanair pilots out there... Do you agree with David O'Brien?? Is he your spokesman, or is he just another to**er morphed from O'Learys mould?

yes, lets relax licence conditions so some numpty who shouldnt be valid is, and then has a raging incident because they shouldnt be in the seat. compromising safety, good idea.
i was at work yesterday and know nothing of equipment failure, not saying there wasnt one.. but i never noticed. if they want to cut down their delays, stop scheduling flights to take off 20 minutes after it has touched down and missing your own slots.
is this yet again, ryanair blaming us for the !!!!e running of its company??
i would be ashamed to work for them....pathetic.

The TLPD (traffic load prediction device) was broken this morning. It allows us to predict the numbers of aircraft that are planned to enter the sector in 15 min blocks. When its broken, regs have to be applied so that we don't get overloaded and provide an unsafe service because we are too busy.

Out of how many? Rather more than that i'd wager. And if you didn't try to make them all take off and land at the same time then it would be less.

we do already

Yes maybe, but you don't train them from scratch, you do type conversions which take alot less time than the two years min to train an area ATCO from the beginning.

Do your aircraft never break? No. Do you always run on time? No. Do you file levels to beat regs and then request higher levels? Yes. Do you get given them? Yes most of the time because we try to provide a high level of "customer service".

I really pity Ryanair employees when i hear what drivel their management comes out with.

What a f***ing joke...how the hell does some tw*t working for a cowboy outfit like Ryanair get to lecture NATS on how to train controllers??
No doubt the Ryanair crews will now come crawling out of the woodwork to have a pop...you know who you are...bring it on.

But it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that NATS could do somewhat better with it's 'cradle-to-readyroom' controller training :).

Don't get mad, just make them number 2.
No short cuts, no high speed, don't do them any favours.

@ Michael O' Leary,
If you are not satisfied with service given by NATS move to another market:E

@ NATS&UK colleagues,
If I remember correctly when things in Ireland went in wrong direction Michael O' Leary was one of the first who said that IAA hadn't worked properly. Than IAA ATCOs thrown stone and s:mad: to Michael but later on (on pprune pages ) we found:
-IAA hadn't recruited new ATCOs for ages :ugh:
-There is no clear evidence that safety assessment and site acceptance test was done before EUROCAT was operational :ugh:
-That provider and CAA is not separated:ugh:
-And a lot of other small s:mad: :ugh:

So be careful when fight against Michael. I know and hope that NATS is not IAA and I will be disappointed if Michael proves otherwise. :{

Please do not take this out on the pilots! We are part of the orchestra but not the conductor!

I spent yesterday at Hurn where I took part in a TRM day for ATCO cadets. Alongside me was a firefighter and a Ryanair line/training/recruitment captain. Funny that he didn't mention this garbage while he had the chance! In fact he was very happy with the service he receives and having flown various types for various companies around the world, he reckons we are the best at what we do. Maybe he might like to tell his management that.
BTW, he also thought that most of RYR's problems stem from their ground handling agents cocking things up!

no they dont! they take all the people from oxford who werent good enough to get jobs at decent airlines then charge them 30k, read that again 30k to do a type rating...and to buy your own uniform of course!

As somebody mentioned earlier, don't take it out on the crews. They are just the foot soldiers at the front, just like the ATCOs on the other end. It would be unprofessional to punish crews for the unqualified statements issued by their company.

Adverse Bump

What a Load of Utter Rubbish you write !!!

They take all the people from Oxford who weren't good enough to get jobs at decent airlines.

If you think the guy's and girl's cant get jobs anywhere else, then you don't know the Oxford product !!
The job market has been poor since the end of last year and the best chance for a jet job is Ryanair for many of the graduates this year.

Also its not just Oxford students who are flying for RYR, there are a good cross section from Cabair, Jerez, and various modular routes and do you mean to tell me that they were not good enough to get jobs elsewhere !

I think a public apology is in order for your remark.

Get your facts straight before you post, the course costs €29000 and at the tourist rate of €1.21 to the £ equals £23966. and the Uniform cost £280.
Where do you get the extra £5754 from.

Also this is an ATC forum and you are totally off topic.

Yahoo! / Del Prado

Grow up both of you, as a Ryanair pilot has said DON'T take it out on the crews, they are the troops doing their best in a cut throat world.
Not Senior managers making comments for free publicity.

As a non-Ryan pilot I´d be most delighted to get the directs etcetc.

However, there might be some truth in the statement itself. From how I read it, its not against the ATCOs but the management. And I think, if I remember correctly, there has been a thread or two about said management with a slight tendency against them from the workforce.

So is that guy maybe pointing in the right direction?

and,

Can I ask why making you fly your flight planned route is "taking it out on the pilots"? As we are, you are paid to do a job - I don't get to go home any earlier if I give everyone a direct route so why are you different?

By keeping you all on-route this afternoon we are "punishing" the people who buy the gas.

We are also all fed up with the poor planning by your flight ops dept who won't file plans on CDR's! but I've already ranted on that in a different thread.

BTW
According to NATSNET the technical failure that caused this press release was fixed by 06:30. The WestEnd sectors were the ones mainly affected. 56 RYR flights had filed to fly thru these sectors 27 of which suffered delays of, between 7 and 42 minutes. 29 RYR flights were not delayed at all by ATC!

There is no smoke without fire.
Maybe there is a case to be answered, within NATS.

The service, is just that a service to promote a safe an efficient use of airspace.
Its the regular efficiency from management and equipment that may be lacking.
And there is a case to re-nationalise to keep costs to the user down.
Now I am posting to obtain a response, must be the environment.

NATS do a good job, but like many cost driven companies are under pressure from managers to achieve miracles.
Just like in many airlines, we all work in the same industry and need to work together, so to ell with management and their inane comments.

PS I dont work for RYR

And when staff said we were short staffed Mr O'Leary chose to believe the IAA's guff and accused us of being overpaid and under-worked, and denied we had any staff shortages...:yuk:

I was going for an even split between: paying to apply, paying for the interview, converting your JAA to IAA, the hotel which you dont get to choice, paying for the swimming pool for the life jacket stuff (which is my favorite of them all!). and paying to live during the first 6 months when you only get paid 9000 euro's? And am i right in thinking you have to buy bottles of water from them on board? - not sure about the last!

Not aimed at anyone who works for them. But i would love to meet the guy who decided crew should have to pay that much to work for them!

Until people starting saying no to deals like this, it aint going to get any better!

This is aimed at anyone who has ever sat down at the dinning room table with an offer letter from ryanair in one hand, and an offer letter from BA, or easy, or flybe (which seems as good a place as any to start off for new grads) in the other hand. And made the decision to go work for ryanair.

I am very sorry.

Apology accepted.

Just show me a guy or girl this year who has an multiple offer from any of the fore mentioned companies !!!
And if they didn't take BA they need their head read.

Even CTC require you to pay up front for their JOC course, before you can enter their holding pool in which many are still floating after having given up swimming its taken so long.
Then they get paid a pittance for 6 months whilst CTC cream off the money from the airline they are placed with. Even then there is no job guarantee at the end of the 6 months.

No such thing as a free type rating.

I said OR old boy!

...and BA type ratings are free, they don't even bond you!

Safe flying.